Laws of Sanctification of the New Month, Chapter 3 (Auto Translated)

Rambam Hilchos Kiddush HaChodesh Chapter 3 — Testimony of the Month, Desecration of Shabbos, and Announcing

Introduction to Chapter 3

Speaker 1: Good. We are learning Rambam Hilchos Kiddush HaChodesh, the third chapter. Before we begin the chapter, we must with hakoras hatov (gratitude) praise and thank our distinguished sponsor who makes this shiur possible, our friend, our dear friend R’ Yoel Eli Wetzberger, and all others who support and strengthen the shiur. May the Almighty repay you all, may the merit of Torah accompany him.

The chapter continues learning halachos regarding the testimony and the kiddush hachodesh (sanctification of the new month), various details of the laws of when the witnesses come and other halachos. I think it’s very similar to chapter 2, but not everything was included in chapter 2. I don’t know if the Rambam could have essentially made chapter 2 into one large chapter.

Let’s try to think this way: Chapter 2 is more about the order and the examination of the witnesses, and when one sanctifies, not when one… the kiddush hachodesh. What is this kiddush hachodesh? The chapter speaks about… the first half speaks about the fact that one must go and everyone should come. It’s correct that it’s a topic that was already learned earlier.

And it also learns about the topic of announcing. They learned that one of the things… the Rambam said the language, I saw Rav Novet jump in his introduction, that part of the mitzvah of the beis din is to clarify, to sanctify, and to announce. They learn in this chapter about the… announcing, meaning even in a manner where one wasn’t sanctifying, there is a meal, and afterwards there is the topic of the messengers, of the fires that they used to make, and so on.

And the last topic of the chapter is essentially, then there is also the topic of what one does when one doesn’t know, the question of places where messengers don’t arrive, what one does when there isn’t, begins to explain the foundation of why there is yom tov sheni (second day of yom tov), later there is more about this. And the last thing he speaks about what happens, something actually does come later to a witness, and they change it later. Interesting problems that they had with this.

I figured that there was earlier more very basic, the normal fundamentals, and here is already more details. But there are also more details there. And here stand all kinds of additional details, yes, I don’t know.

Halacha 1 — Witnesses Who Live Far: Should They Go

Speaker 1: The Rambam says as follows, witnesses who saw the month, witnesses who saw the new moon. We learned earlier that they need to come to Jerusalem. The Rambam says, but this is only if they will still arrive in time. If between them and the place where there is a beis din is a journey of a night and day or less, if they will arrive, if they are close enough that if they will go for twenty-four hours or less they will arrive, then they should come, because it’s possible that they will still arrive before it becomes the thirty-first day, and until it becomes the thirty-first day the beis din can still sanctify and make it a deficient month, so it will have meaning.

But if between them is more than this, if they live very far and the journey will take more than this, they should not go. Why? Because their testimony after the thirtieth day is not effective, since the month has already been made full. We learned earlier that the minute the thirtieth day ends, it becomes automatic, it’s called the heavens sanctify, one no longer needs the beis din then, because it cannot be Rosh Chodesh more than the thirty-first day, so automatically the thirty-first day becomes Rosh Chodesh, so they won’t accomplish anything, they shouldn’t come.

Innovation: “Accomplish” vs. “Do”

I mean from this halacha we learn that one must accomplish and not just do. It’s different from what the world always says, one doesn’t need to accomplish, one needs to do, let’s go, I saw, let’s set out on the road. If you won’t be able to accomplish, it’s a waste to do. Certainly, one must accomplish, I agree. What is said that one must do not accomplish, is because many times people don’t know how to accomplish, so one says they should first do.

Even here, the first halacha is a journey of a night and day or less. That means, if it’s actually a full night and day, he won’t accomplish further. But there is or less, he will perhaps accomplish it. And not only what we learned earlier in the previous chapter, even if you’re certain that there is an error, it will become more explicit, I think yes, even if it’s clearly evident, a thousand people saw us, no difference, you go. This is yes do not accomplish. I say this, but here there is a great difficulty, but on this halacha that we spoke about earlier, and we banged our heads against the wall about the problem, and our friend the Rambam here says, between us, it’s literally a contradiction.

Difficulty: Contradiction with Halacha 16 (Sanctifying Retroactively)

Halacha 16, we will learn at the end of the chapter, I just want to mention, because I’ll forget, and it also made it easier for me to say as if later at the end of the chapter we will see that there is indeed such a thing according to the Rambam, meaning to sanctify retroactively. There is that witnesses come a few days later, the Rambam says almost explicitly, or the Rambam has details about this, that one says one changes the order of the month retroactively, in certain ways, in certain months etc., yes. And here it appears clear that the witnesses shouldn’t even come. So, it’s a great question, what’s going on here?

Connection to Chapter 2 — “Their Testimony Was Examined” / “The Heavens Sanctified”

We also learned in the previous chapter, that even if there is examination of the witnesses, but they didn’t have time, even if the witnesses are standing there by the beis din, and it already became night, and one doesn’t sanctify at night, so it already became too late.

Possible Answers

And it could be the they should not go also, I think, is connected with the halacha that we learned earlier, that we worry that there shouldn’t be discouragement, because they won’t come next time. So, instead of telling them “go out, maybe you’ll be lucky, the journey will take, there will be a shortening of the way”, they should not go, because we worry about this that next time he should come.

Okay, but it could be that the simplest thing is, yes, but it’s not possible, he will… it’s his way. What is said that the way is the time, it means perhaps one can run, I don’t know, it’s not a normal way, it takes so long.

It could be that the answer to the basic difficulty is that one shouldn’t go. Perhaps actually regarding the halacha in 16, that you will now mix everything up. If the witnesses don’t call themselves anything, and the beis din have sanctification of heaven and they say nothing, everything continues according to this, one will make Pesach and Sukkos according to this. Don’t call yourself things that don’t work out. If they will come, then begins the problem that one learns at the end of the chapter. But it doesn’t appear that there is an obligation that they should come. This is certain, this is the word. Just as he shouldn’t make trouble, because he can make trouble. Yes.

Discussion: “Effective” — The Language of the Rambam

Speaker 2: It says not effective, that’s the difficulty as if, it says not effective.

Speaker 1: But perhaps the not effective is what one tells them. In practice, if they will come, will already begin once effective, will be troubles. It’s still, the difficulty is better than the answer, but what will I do?

Connection to Chapter 2 — “Their Testimony Was Examined”

Let’s see, according to what you’re saying now, it could be that what was stated earlier also means in a manner when the witnesses haven’t yet said their testimony. So, their testimony was examined means one began asking them who are you, but they haven’t yet said their testimony. Therefore it’s the heavens sanctified, because if not it’s worth the contradiction from here and 16.

Speaker 2: Yes, that’s a greater contradiction. This halacha one can give advice, and that halacha is difficult to give advice.

Speaker 1: Yes, but I say, from here I get a thread, that as long as one doesn’t call oneself, all troubles begin when one speaks things that one doesn’t need to. So there also, their testimony was examined, a person says one already began the process, but one sees already, it’s becoming late, one told them, okay, don’t say further, it doesn’t work out. Could be.

Halacha 2 — Desecration of Shabbos for Testimony of the Month

Speaker 1: Okay, let’s learn how important it is that everyone should go, and one goes into desecration of Shabbos. Witnesses who saw the month, witnesses who saw the new month. Interesting, it’s called the month, they saw the moon in its renewal, because chodesh means the meaning, the moon, the new moon, it’s called chodesh, so it appears. These should go to the beis din to testify, they should set out to the beis din. The Rambam says, even if it was Shabbos, one must set out on the way even on Shabbos, and even if it will be desecration of Shabbos, for example one must go outside the techum Shabbos (Shabbos boundary), or later one will see even more than this desecration of Shabbos.

Why? As it says “which you shall proclaim them in their appointed times”, that the festivals of Hashem, they learned earlier that which you shall proclaim them means that the beis din should establish when the correct time should be. Therefore, and every place where it says the appointed time, it overrides Shabbos. Interesting. That means, one sees by the example, a festival offering in its appointed time means that one must bring it even if it comes out on Shabbos. Interesting. Therefore… therefore, it overrides Shabbos. The establishment of the festivals overrides Shabbos.

Innovation: Yom Tov Itself Doesn’t Override Shabbos, But Here Yes

It’s interesting, yom tov itself doesn’t override Shabbos, but here is more than the essence of yom tov. Here is… the entire yom tov depends on the two witnesses. I don’t know if to say that yom tov doesn’t override Shabbos. I say, there are many things, one may not do even yom tov things, one may not do… I know, lest he carry it. A scribe, rabbinical. I say, but here one isn’t speaking of just… overriding Shabbos to know about yom tov, but to know when all of Klal Yisrael should make yom tov. When is yom tov? When all of Klal Yisrael should make yom tov, overrides the private Shabbos of the two witnesses. Could be so. Yes.

Only Nissan and Tishrei

Yes, so therefore, says the Rambam, one doesn’t desecrate, now we will understand that the reason why one desecrates Shabbos is not just, one could say that one desecrates Shabbos because it’s a very great mitzvah of making kiddush hachodesh, it’s a mitzvah that is upon the beis din. But the Rambam says, no, one learns it from which you shall proclaim them in their appointed times, that the reason why it overrides Shabbos is not about the importance of the mitzvah of making Rosh Chodesh, but it’s about a specific thing, because the importance of knowing when to make yom tov, is this a mitzvah in itself, is this a new mitzvah? Not a new mitzvah, it’s a law in the greater halacha of the fact that the beis din sanctifies the month. But then it’s very important that one should know when yom tov is, then it overrides Shabbos.

Therefore, when was the halacha said that the witnesses may go even on Shabbos and desecrate Shabbos? Only Rosh Chodesh Nissan and Rosh Chodesh Tishrei alone, because then there is establishment of the festivals, one will establish when the festival should be according to the witnesses. But other days, there are no festivals, one won’t call. There are only two festivals: Pesach and Sukkos.

Discussion: What About Shavuos?

Speaker 2: Did I miss another yom tov? Shavuos, but Shavuos…

Speaker 1: Yes, I’m thinking about Shavuos. He explains. What about Shavuos? What decides when Shavuos is? Pesach. Shavuos is dependent on Pesach.

Innovation: The Source of Overriding Shabbos — Not the Mitzvah, But “Their Appointed Times”

But the Rambam said that a positive commandment of “it is first for you for the months of the year”, not the mitzvah overrides Shabbos, that the witnesses may go because of the mitzvah of perhaps because the mitzvah is dependent on the beis din. It’s not the mitzvah. I also thought that the witnesses have a part in the mitzvah, the mitzvah is on the beis din. But here it appears that the reason why it overrides Shabbos is because on this depends the entire yom tov of Klal Yisrael. So this is actually only when it’s the yom tov of Klal Yisrael.

The Ramban also in chapter 1 brought the verse of which you shall proclaim them. It appears that the mitzvah of Rosh Chodesh, what will one derive when is Rosh Chodesh? There is a mitzvah of Rosh Chodesh, one should bring a mitzvah of Rosh Chodesh, but the point of Rosh Chodesh is to know when yom tov is. If one learns it from which you shall proclaim them, but if one says that this month is for you itself is a mitzvah…

Why Does Kiddush HaChodesh Override Shabbos? — The Reason of Klal Yisrael

Speaker 1: There are only two festivals, Pesach and Sukkos. Did we miss another yom tov? Shavuos, but Shavuos… Yes, I’m thinking about Shavuos. He explains. What about Shavuos? What decides when Shavuos is? Pesach. Shavuos is dependent on Pesach.

But I say, the Rambam said that a positive commandment of “it is first for you for the months of the year”, not the mitzvah overrides Shabbos, that the witnesses may go because of the mitzvah of perhaps because the mitzvah is dependent on the beis din. It’s not the mitzvah. I also thought that the witnesses have a part in the mitzvah, the mitzvah is on the beis din.

But here it appears that the reason why it overrides Shabbos is because on this depends the entire yom tov of Klal Yisrael. So this is actually only when it’s the yom tov of Klal Yisrael.

The Ramban also in Parshas Bo brought the verse of “which you shall proclaim them”. It appears that the mitzvah of Rosh Chodesh, what will one when is Rosh Chodesh? There is a mitzvah of Rosh Chodesh, one should bring a mitzvah of Rosh Chodesh, but the point of Rosh Chodesh is to know when yom tov is. If one learns it from “which you shall proclaim them”, but if one says that “this month is for you” itself is a mitzvah…

No, now it’s only the Ramban, the Ramban says that this is the source that one uses the moon, but I remember, Parshas Bo. The Ramban didn’t bring in his listing the names of the mitzvah. Need to look in the Sefer HaMitzvos. What does it say? What does it say? I’ll look it in. I do want to say. He brings here the language. One positive commandment. Yes, he will certainly bring. He brings yes, “this month”. Okay, I don’t know. I can still everything. And how does it say in the short version of the mitzvos? It’s clearer it’s…

But in any case, the reason why the witnesses may desecrate Shabbos is not about them a coming mitzvah. For example, a positive commandment overrides a negative commandment, it’s a mitzvah on them. It’s not a mitzvah, it’s not an obligation on them, because it’s a matter of Klal Yisrael. More a matter to renew months, what for this is “this month for the months of months”. Beis din alone. It’s a mitzvah on the beis din, but what I’m saying here is that the reason for the witnesses may…

Speaker 2: No no, beis din alone means to say that the beis din has the right further.

Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Okay, but still the mitzvah is on the beis din. But I say for the reason why the witnesses may desecrate Shabbos, and not because it’s some kind of mitzvah that is more important than Shabbos, like such a positive commandment overrides a negative commandment, but it’s something a matter that Klal Yisrael, it’s more like Klal Yisrael versus an individual. Your own Shabbos is pushed aside for Klal Yisrael.

Speaker 2: You’re saying your own reasoning now.

Speaker 1: And look, by the next piece it will also be implied so.

Halacha 2: When the Beis HaMikdash Exists — One Desecrates for All of Them

Speaker 1: It’s implied when the Beis HaMikdash exists, will also agree, “one desecrates for all of them”. The Rambam says, what I’m saying that one only desecrates Shabbos for the month of Nissan and the month of Tishrei, this is in our time. Not in our time exactly, but as long as one still sanctifies based on sighting when there is no longer a Beis HaMikdash. What then is it relevant when should be Pesach and Yom Kippur and Sukkos.

But when the Beis HaMikdash exists, then one indeed “desecrates for all of them”. Why? “Because of the musaf offering that is on every Rosh Chodesh”. Every Rosh Chodesh one brings a musaf offering, and we know that the musaf offering is so important, that it overrides Shabbos.

We’re not speaking here specifically if Rosh Chodesh comes out on Shabbos, even when Rosh Chodesh comes out Monday and Tuesday. But because the musaf of Rosh Chodesh is so important that it overrides Shabbos, and in the hands of the witnesses lies Rosh Chodesh, the musaf of Rosh Chodesh.

Discussion: Is the Korban Musaf the Cause for Desecration of Shabbos?

Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but what he’s saying is this: and because we see that the Rosh Chodesh mussaf is so important that it overrides Shabbos for the kohanim in the Beis HaMikdash, it also overrides Shabbos for the witness who has to testify when it’s Rosh Chodesh.

Speaker 1: Right, no, I understand, but what this is saying is that this is important, apparently, for the same “b’mo’ado.” It also says about this, it’s a continuation of the same parsha of the mussaf offerings. So “b’mo’ado” means that even the mussaf of Shabbos overrides Shabbos. I mean to say, all mussaf offerings override Shabbos. In general, korban tamid, mussaf, everything overrides Shabbos. It’s the same thing. Rosh Chodesh overrides Shabbos, and therefore also the establishment to know that it’s Rosh Chodesh so that they can bring the korban.

Speaker 2: It’s interesting, perhaps it’s like a part of the mitzvah, of the mussaf? You’re saying a nice thing, one cannot bring the mussaf on the thirtieth day if the witnesses don’t come. And since the korban mussaf is more important than Shabbos, because we see that it’s mechalel Shabbos for the kohanim, it’s also mechalel Shabbos for the witness.

Speaker 1: I understand, you mean to say as if, I want to know if it’s a new law that kiddush hachodesh overrides Shabbos, or offering the mussaf at its proper time overrides Shabbos. One must do everything one can do in order to do this, and be clear and certain that it’s Rosh Chodesh.

It’s hard to say that the korban mussaf causes the overriding of Shabbos, because it would be something like a preparation, some distant preparation for the korban mussaf. It’s not even a preparation, it’s more the establishment of the month. But only when the establishment of the month is important enough.

Speaker 2: No, it’s establishing in order, in order, in order that it should be Rosh Chodesh. There’s a practical difference. I mean, if there’s a mussaf of Yom Tov of the month, yalla, it comes, it’s not important enough. But mussaf, or the thing that makes it Rosh Chodesh, is important.

Speaker 1: I want to tell you exactly, it’s important that it should be Rosh Chodesh. That Rosh Chodesh should happen is an important thing. The mussaf of Rosh Chodesh, the service of Rosh Chodesh.

Speaker 2: That means, that the korban mussaf overrides Shabbos is more like a sign that you should know that the month is the important month, therefore it should also override for the witnesses.

Halacha 3: Mezakim, One Witness, and Doubt

Speaker 1: The Rambam says further, the Rambam says, the desecration of Shabbos that overrides Shabbos isn’t simply limited to only the witnesses being allowed. He says, “Just as the witnesses who saw the month desecrate the Shabbos,” which they learned earlier, there was an enactment that one also sends with the witnesses those who vouch for them, who say that they are credible, they are upstanding Jews, they may also come, “if the beis din did not recognize the witnesses.”

Interesting, because this is further only a rabbinic law, yes? Fundamentally one doesn’t need any… a voucher won’t be able to become Shabbos, yes?

“And even if the one who testifies about them to the beis din is a single witness,” which apparently isn’t enough, one will still need another witness, but “he may go and desecrate Shabbos out of doubt, perhaps he will find another and join with him.” Perhaps there will be someone there, another one will come out who knows him, he will join together so it will be…

And the same thing also with a single witness who saw the moon for the same reason. But this is an even greater novelty, even the one who knows them should stand. Stand a whole time as witnesses, one really doesn’t know. Ah, does a witness stand? Yes, I don’t know.

Halacha 4: Sick Person, Donkey, Weapons, Food

Speaker 1: This is the Rambam: “If a witness who saw the month on Friday night was sick” — if he’s weak and he can’t go by himself, “they may place him on a donkey” — one may give him someone who will be his wagon driver. And it’s forbidden to ride, one rides on a donkey. But the main point here is… “They place him on the donkey,” not other people, the person himself.

But if he’s sick, he will presumably need someone else to drive the donkey. This one will also be allowed, just as one may… ah, “they place him,” that’s the argument. “They place him” means he himself sits on the donkey. He sits on the donkey, but one takes someone with. If one leads the donkey is the question of…

“Even on a bed,” even if one carries his bed, which is already… carrying out. We still have people, carrying out. It’s not carrying out, because a living being on a bed is exempt. But anyway, yes? Interesting. Yes. But perhaps rabbinically it’s forbidden, and the novelty is that it’s permitted. Yes. Not clear.

“And if there’s an ambush on the way” — if one is afraid that there are armed bandits on the way, whatever robbers, “the witnesses may take weapons in their hands” — they may take weapons. “And if it was a distant road” — they may also take food to eat.

From here we learn an important halacha, that if a person is going to take a dangerous route, he should take a gun. Just, I mean already. If it works.

Halacha 4 (continued): Even If It Was Large and Visible to All

Speaker 1: The Rambam says, further he says, there’s an even greater novelty. What happens when the moon was clear and everyone could see it? Therefore you could have that many people saw it.

The Rambam says, “Even if it was large and visible to all” — everyone could see the moon, “they should not say” — the witnesses shouldn’t think to themselves, “just as we saw it, others saw it” — just as we saw it, other people saw it, why should we desecrate Shabbos? One doesn’t say this, because perhaps for some reason you are indeed the proper testimony. “Rather, anyone who sees the month and is fit to testify, and between him and the place where the beis din is established is a night and day or less, it’s a mitzvah upon him to desecrate the Shabbos and go and testify.”

Halacha 5: Receiving Testimony of the Month All Day Thirty — The Incident of Niskalkelu B’shir

Speaker 1: Now we’re going to learn about a new thing, also when one receives testimony. It’s also a contradiction with previous things. Yes, yes, yes, it’s interesting. So, you would already, sometimes the Rambam, it could be that the, that the, that the, and he doesn’t say it earlier, because this is also only when the Beis HaMikdash existed, which here is the problem of niskalkelu b’shir. He goes from this explicitly, let’s see. Let’s turn.

Once there were times, one must know what once was among Jews. Once it was like this, they would receive testimony of the month all day thirty, that means a good thing. Testimony of the month only makes a difference on the thirtieth day. What we’re dealing with in all these laws, so the whole, one thirty is anyway Rosh Chodesh. So the whole practical difference, if the thirtieth comes, then it’s already kiddush hachodesh.

So they would receive testimony the whole day until sunset, I don’t know until three stars, I don’t know until when, until it becomes night, so that one can make today Rosh Chodesh, one says kiddush.

Now, once there was such an incident. “Once,” once and once there was an incident: “the two witnesses delayed coming until bein ha’arbayim.” That means, it seems normal, the witnesses are testifying that it was last night, right? On the night of the thirtieth, right? The moon is seen at night, not in the morning. So usually, the witnesses would come in the morning. How long should it take them to come? Even if they came from a bit of a distance, but it’s not too far.

It says, yes, one must learn, it already says a journey of a night and day, but a journey of a night and day doesn’t mean literally forty-four hours, because you’re only coming the next night. It means to say until one arrives the next morning somewhere. So this was apparently the normal order, they would usually come earlier. In the afternoon still, let’s say.

But once it happened like this: the witnesses were delayed, they came until bein ha’arbayim, until it was already the time of the tamid, the tamid of bein ha’arbayim. “And they became confused in the Mikdash,” they became confused, “and they didn’t know what to do,” they didn’t know what to do.

The kohanim were niskalkelu, doesn’t mean they became ruined, it means they became doubtful. What do they want to do? Should they offer the olah not at bein ha’arbayim, says the doubt to offer the korban before bein ha’arbayim.

Why is this a problem? Perhaps witnesses will come, maybe witnesses will come after the korban tamid has already been offered, and it’s impossible to offer a korban after the tamid not at bein ha’arbayim. Yes, there is a law that all the korbanos are offered. So one may not offer, one may not, which even after the fact is also not. After the fact also not.

On a day when one needs more korbanos, one pushes off the tamid not at bein ha’arbayim later, like erev Pesach. So they wanted to know if they should push it off a bit.

Speaker 2:

On the contrary, one does it earlier.

Speaker 1:

But anyway, later, maybe not now.

Speaker 2:

No, usually one does nine and a half, erev korban Pesach is an exception, one does it after, so I think I remember.

But normally one would slaughter it at eight and a half, as it says in Tamid it’s slaughtered in the opening of Pesachim, and one must know if one should offer now, if one should wait, maybe a witness will come, and one will have to offer the korban mussaf first. So they didn’t know.

So what was it? What’s the problem? One doesn’t know, one doesn’t know. What does one do when there’s a doubt? What’s the big problem?

Speaker 1:

No, it’s not.

Speaker 2:

And the Gemara says niskalkelu haleviyim b’shir. The Rambam changed something and wrote that they didn’t know if they should bring the tamid of bein ha’arbayim. Interesting.

In short, there was confusion, some mix-up in the Beis HaMikdash. This is no way. The Beis HaMikdash must be clear.

So the beis din, the beis din established itself, the enactment is that they made an enactment “that they don’t receive testimony of the month except until mincha.” Mincha means mincha ketana?

Speaker 1:

So he says.

Speaker 2:

But they only receive testimony until mincha. Ah, it seems that then they waited, they waited until late, it becomes too late to offer the tamid, it becomes a problem.

So they made an enactment that one doesn’t receive the witnesses except until the time of mincha, “so that if witnesses come, there will be time in the day to offer the mussafim and the tamid of bein ha’arbayim,” and it will be fulfilled.

It takes a certain, it takes a piece of time, I don’t know, half an hour, an hour, I don’t know how long it takes, I mean usually it takes an hour, so it comes out in Pesachim. It takes time, it’s a whole order of service.

So they had to make an enactment that if witnesses come later, they won’t listen to them. That means, it certainly won’t be Rosh Chodesh today, therefore one can calmly offer the korban tamid of bein ha’arbayim, one doesn’t need to be confused.

Halacha 6 — When Witnesses Come After Mincha

Speaker 2:

And if so, what does one do? “And if witnesses didn’t come until mincha, they offer the tamid of bein ha’arbayim.”

“And if witnesses came from mincha and onward,” if he says witnesses will come later, what does one do? They’re not received as it were, but what does one do? “They observe that day as holy and the next day as holy.”

One observes both days as holy. What does holy mean? In what sense? One didn’t offer any tamid, ah, any mussaf. So what does holy mean? I don’t know. And… does one say Ya’aleh v’Yavo? But it’s a holy day, nu? Holy? Have you heard the word holy? Mikra’ei kodesh? Doesn’t it say by the mikra’ei kodesh? I don’t know.

Okay, but in any case it’s certain, perhaps holy means the language of sanctifying? Mekadshin the month, not holy. But it’s not, one didn’t sanctify the month. They didn’t receive.

“And they offer mussaf the next day, and they didn’t sanctify it.” No, “and they didn’t sanctify it.” You can’t translate that. Holy means according to this the laws of Rosh Chodesh. One says Ya’aleh v’Yavo, I don’t know what one does on Rosh Chodesh.

“And they offer mussaf the next day, and they didn’t sanctify it after mincha.” He says, the mussaf was only done tomorrow. But what does “they observe that day as holy and the next day as holy” mean? I don’t understand clearly. As if it’s Rosh Chodesh, and what does one do? I don’t understand. He doesn’t even say what the argument is.

Essentially one says “mekadesh Yisrael v’roshei chadashim,” yes, sanctifying. Certainly it’s a holy day. Do you want to know the practical difference? He says that it could be that it means Rosh Hashana, because then one must be careful about the prohibition of work. So there’s a side, so he brings from someone, that’s translating holy.

But the Ramban doesn’t say that it’s talking about Rosh Hashana, so it’s implied that the Ramban is talking about every Rosh Chodesh. I remember that we once talked about this, and we learned in the previous volume at length, that the question is what they used to do then.

That means, did one immediately begin to observe every month on the thirtieth day as holy Rosh Chodesh? Doubtfully. Yes, because witnesses could come later. That’s somewhat the question. The Ramban seems that yes, one always observed it as holy. This has nothing to do with mussaf. Mussaf one perhaps only does with certainty, but the stringencies… yes, whatever, I don’t know what else.

Now, the concern is only when it’s actually in the Beis HaMikdash, when one can get mixed up with the korban. Today there isn’t this problem.

So after the destruction of the Beis HaMikdash “Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai and his beis din enacted,” which means they were in the beis din at the time of the destruction of the Beis HaMikdash, “that one receives testimony of the month the entire day,” one received the whole day. Which means, in his beis din it was open until night. “Even if witnesses came on the thirtieth day at the end of the day until three stars, one receives testimony, one sanctifies the thirtieth day.”

This is the law of an enactment that was made so one shouldn’t get mixed up.

Halacha 7 — The Meal of Ibbur Hachodesh

Speaker 2:

Now we’re going to learn about something special called a meal of ibbur hachodesh. That means, when one sanctifies the month on the thirty days, there’s some ceremony of kiddush hachodesh. One doesn’t talk about this.

Now one talks like this: “When the beis din makes the month full,” when the month becomes a full month or intercalated. Why? Ah, “because witnesses didn’t come all day thirty,” there weren’t any witnesses the whole thirtieth day. So it comes out that necessarily tomorrow…

Interestingly he calls it the beis din makes the month full. It’s not the beis din making it full, it’s no choice from Heaven, it becomes automatic. Okay. They say, he doesn’t say they sanctify it, therefore he says they make it full, not they sanctify it.

Speaker 1:

It could be making it full means saying for the witnesses to be quiet.

Speaker 2:

No, let’s say witnesses didn’t come at all.

Speaker 1:

Or if there are no witnesses, because I’m saying that many times there is when they actually silenced the witnesses.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but this isn’t talking about that. On the contrary, the novelty is, I mean that the meal comes in place of the kiddush hachodesh. So he says, the meal is to publicize that today is Rosh Chodesh.

Because usually when it’s thirty one makes kiddush hachodesh, and that makes the publicity. But when it’s thirty-one one can’t make a kiddush hachodesh, because it’s not necessary since it’s already sanctified from Heaven, so instead of that one makes a meal.

So basically, it’s a Rosh Chodesh meal. When it’s a Rosh Chodesh meal, there is a Rosh Chodesh meal, perhaps a slightly different kind of Rosh Chodesh meal. It’s not a special meal specifically for ibbur.

Details of the Meal

Speaker 2:

And what did they do? “They would go up to a prepared place,” one would go to a prepared place, a certain place that was made for this. A high place.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that’s the simple meaning, it was publicized. Jerusalem, near… I don’t know.

Speaker 2:

He says, I don’t know why, it’s written there, but one says a prepared place, a real party? I’m coming here to a nice party, I’m coming to a nice high place.

“And they make for him a meal on the thirty-first day of the month.” He made a meal.

Time of the Meal

Speaker 2:

And when did he make the meal? Ah, he says like this, “and they don’t go up there at night,” one doesn’t go at night when it’s just night, that means the beginning of night, “but at twilight.” What does twilight mean? At night, no? He says “at twilight before sunrise.” He says at twilight in the evening. When it’s still night, end of day, before sunrise.

“And they don’t go up for him with bread of grain and legumes.” One doesn’t distribute meat there, one only eats bread from legumes. What do you say one eats bread with chickpeas? I don’t know.

Discussion: Time of the Meal and the Reason

Speaker 1:

What does one do then? There’s a Yad Rama. It’s an interesting thing the Yad Rama. Because one doesn’t need to… the reason is that one shouldn’t drink any meat and wine so one shouldn’t get drunk. Why? A strange thing, because one doesn’t need to examine in the darkness it becomes by itself. One doesn’t know? It’s before davening. How can one eat before davening?

Speaker 2:

“And they eat at the meal.” At night still, at night one may still. Before sunrise.

Speaker 1:

No, R’ Elazar says you go up at night, “v’ochlim b’beis haseudah.” You eat when it’s the time of the meal, perhaps in the meantime you also daven. The main thing is, you’re already preparing for the meal. But before that you daven, it can’t be a bochur shel mesira, you should have a minyan for davening.

Speaker 2:

No, mesira is certainly for the meal. It should be a parsha. “Bizhu seudas mitzva shelo yisbarech chodesh ha’amora b’chol makom.”

In many places you’ve heard of the seudas mitzva, I’ve only heard from the Rambam, he always does that. Many times, there are two pages of Gemara that talk about this, but you’ve already learned Gemara many times. This is interesting.

One goes to make going up earlier and not make it paid. This is a situation. This is the situation today. Every situation has its ways. Biskulene Rebbe makes motzaei Shabbos nighttime kamptre. This and that makes… not everyone has forgotten.

It’s possible, one must go up to a high place, because you watch the sunrise, because you don’t eat the meal beforehand, and when it passes, when it’s zman seudah. Okay. It’s not clear. Okay.

Until here is the publicity that is made with the seudas ibur hachodesh.

Halacha 8 – Publicizing Rosh Chodesh Through Bonfires

Speaker 2:

Now we’re going to talk about another type, that is, the next part of this chapter discusses how the world finds out that today is Rosh Chodesh. The distant places.

There’s also a lot of history here, already the third “originally,” right? Originally they used to accept from everyone, originally they used to accept all day, and now originally they used to announce with fires.

So it is, originally, says the Rambam, “k’shekadshu beis din es hachodesh.” Actually it’s Rosh Hashanah, originally. Originally in the good old days, “k’shekadshu beis din es hachodesh.” So how did they announce to those who live far away?

It seems that in Jerusalem everyone kept up with what was happening in the center. Ah, you hear that, the news comes to the beis hamidrash. But what did they do?

“Hayu masi’in masuos b’roshei heharim,” they lit fires, torches, on the tops of the mountains, “kedei asher yeid’u harechokim,” so that the people who live far away should see that on the tops of the mountains there are fires.

Halacha 8 — Mishkilkelu HaKusim: From Bonfires to Messengers

Speaker 1: So when? Either the thirtieth or the thirty-first? It’s no longer a question, because they already knew that it must be. Apparently, apparently, that’s the point. If they were mekadesh… he says you can be mekadesh during the day. So any time they saw torches on the night of the thirty-first, they knew that it was already yesterday. That’s how it must be.

But what happens “mishkilkelu hakusim”? Kusim was a group in Eretz Yisrael, Kusim, who became part of Klal Yisrael, but they caused troubles. Called Shomronim today, yes, and they had such a trick that they fooled the people, “shehayu masi’in masuos kedei lehat’os es ha’am.” Even in months when they hadn’t established the thirtieth, when at that time they wouldn’t have made fires on the night of the thirty-first, they lit fires to fool the people, so that the world should think that Rosh Chodesh became the thirtieth, and to confuse the world, and they should celebrate for example Pesach a day early.

Speaker 2: ⟦#2⟧

Speaker 1: “Hitkinu,” what did the Chachamim see with stopping, they established “sheyihyu shluchim yotz’im umodiyim larabim,” that it should no longer be in the manner of lighting fires, but there should be special messengers. There you can’t fool, because you’ll know who is the messenger of beis din, and they should announce to the world when Rosh Chodesh was.

Discussion: The Tzedokim and the Kusim — Two Types of Tricks

Speaker 1: It’s interesting, earlier there were the Tzedokim who did their tricks, and here the Kusim. I’m not saying that the Tzedokim were a sect of what there is among the Jews, they started from Tzadok and Baitus, they were Tannaim. They used such tricks with witnesses, they knew how to fool witnesses. The Kusim were more such a gang of bandits, they did more such a rebellious action, they were more foolers, they stood on a mountain, lit a fire, it’s such a cruder thing that they did.

Speaker 2: Ah, because the Tzedokim actually held that you must be mekadesh the month. The Kusim don’t care, it’s also just undermining the beis din, they didn’t fool the beis din, they fooled the world.

Speaker 1: Ah, very good. But it could be just a war, some dispute, they confused people, I don’t know.

Messengers Are Not Mechalel Shabbos

Speaker 1: Anyway, says the Rambam, “b’shluchim eilu…”

Speaker 2: Yes, but the messengers… you need to trust a person, you can trust. Right, the messengers are very important, so that in honor of the messengers people in distant places will know when to celebrate Yom Tov. You would think that they may also be mechalel Shabbos, so that the Yom Tov should be.

Speaker 1: Ah, very good. Says the Rambam, why not actually? “Shluchim eilu ein mechalelin lo es Yom Tov, v’ein tzarich lomar Shabbos.” Why? “She’ein mechalelin es haShabbos lekaymo,” because here the Yom Tov was already established, they already established it. Nu, so what? Here it’s a practical thing that the people, the distant ones, should know. It’s not mechalel in order to fulfill the mitzvah of Yom Tov, because lekadsho.

Interesting. He will establish when it should truly be Yom Tov is… is much more a fundamental thing, establishing when the Yom Tov should be. This is already more a practical thing, that people should know. So far we don’t say that it should… yes.

Speaker 2: ⟦#3⟧

Halacha 9 — For Which Six Months Do Messengers Go

Speaker 1: Now, not every month did the messengers travel, but… says the Rambam, “al shisha chadashim hayu shluchim yotz’im.” Six months of the year it came out, and it was important enough that the messengers should go out to announce. That is, all other days it’s not relevant, because Rosh Chodesh you already have, just Rosh Chodesh and Hallel you said anyway, either the thirtieth, perhaps only the one thirtieth, or both. And it’s also not relevant, because the witnesses didn’t come that way. The close places knew, the distant ones take longer than that.

When yes, six months is relevant. “Al Nisan,” so they should know when to make Pesach.

Speaker 2: Shavuos you say isn’t relevant, because 49 days after Pesach is Shavuos, automatically. But when is the next?

Speaker 1: Because “Av mipnei hata’anis.” Av, the month of Av, you need to know when is Tisha B’Av. Because “Elul mipnei Rosh Hashanah.”

Speaker 2: So that’s also not relevant anymore, because Rosh Hashanah itself they already probably celebrated also the thirtieth and the thirty-first.

The Reason for Messengers of Elul

Speaker 1: Says the Rambam, but “kedei sheyeshvu metzapim yom sheloshim l’Elul,” so they should know when is the thirtieth day in Elul. Excuse me, not Tishrei, I mean, they went out Elul, so they should know when Rosh Hashanah will be thirty days.

Speaker 2: Right, although it doesn’t help, you still need to know if Elul is me’ubar or not. Right?

Speaker 1: He says, what’s the point? The messengers of Elul do so that you should sit and wait when is thirty days of Elul, and you should know, that is, you should know when is the thirtieth day. And then, “im noda lahem…”

Speaker 2: But the witnesses come certainly on thirty days? No, they come somewhere like in Elul. No difference.

Speaker 1: Very good, but it doesn’t help, you still need to know when is Rosh Hashanah and when is Tishrei.

Speaker 2: Ah, ah, ah, correct. It only helps to know the doubt.

Speaker 1: So “im noda lahem shekidshu beis din yom sheloshim,” if you know that beis din was mekadesh yom sheloshim in Elul, “nohagim oso yom kodesh bilvad.” Again, if you know, they sit erev Rosh Hashanah, the thirtieth of Tishrei they sit and they wait to see what happens. If you know that they were mekadesh today the month, a messenger came from today, I don’t know how, it’s close enough, then today is Rosh Hashanah, not tomorrow.

“V’im lo noda lahem, nohagim yom sheloshim kodesh.” They know that today is the thirtieth day, tomorrow is the thirty-first day, yes. “Ad sheyavo’u lahem shluchei Tishrei.” Then they’ll know when is…

Speaker 2: Why do the messengers of Elul fail then? He said, because he doesn’t even know when the thirtieth day is.

Speaker 1: Ah, then he’ll start, he’ll have three days of doubt.

Speaker 2: Aha, very good.

The Remaining Months

Speaker 1: He says further, because “Tishrei,” Tishrei the messengers come “mipnei takanas hamo’ados,” to know when to establish Yom Kippur and Sukkos. Because “Kislev,” in Kislev they go around “mipnei Chanukah,” so they should know when Chanukah is. “Ul’Adar mipnei haPurim.”

The Rambam lists everything here from the Mishnah even after the Beis HaMikdash was destroyed. That is, when it was already Tisha B’Av, when it was already the later Yom Tov. Yes, that’s the Mishnah. The Rambam, “bizman sheBeis HaMikdash kayam,” one more. “Yotz’im,” not one more, he switches on me, there is no Av. But then there was a second Beis HaMikdash, perhaps they already celebrated Tisha B’Av. The Gemara already talks about this. Okay. “Yotz’im al Adar mipnei Pesach Katan,” so the impure ones should know when is Pesach Katan and celebrate Yom Tov, celebrate Pesach. Okay.

He doesn’t bring about the fast. It could be that in Bayis Sheini they also needed to know when is Tisha B’Av, if there was a time when there wasn’t peace they needed to fast in Bayis Sheini also. So there’s a way. There wasn’t peace, but no, in any case. But you’re right that the… Okay, Chanukah, Purim, that’s all already. Okay.

Speaker 2: ⟦#4⟧

Halacha 10 — When Do the Messengers Go Out

Speaker 1: Says the Rambam, when do the messengers travel? Yes, says the Rambam, the messengers don’t go out when they already know approximately that they’re going to be mekadesh. They need to go out when it’s already established, when beis din has already been mekadesh. Which ones? “Shluchei Nisan ushluchei Tishrei.” Ah, “ein yotz’in ela b’yom Rosh Chodesh achar sheta’aleh hashemesh,” because beis din wasn’t mekadesh the month at night, they had to go out the thirtieth day, the thirty-first day in the morning, “achar sheta’aleh hashemesh, ad sheyishme’u mipi beis din ‘mekudash’.” They had to hear the word from beis din “mekudash.”

The only case when beis din was still mekadesh on the thirtieth was “im kidshu beis din b’sof yom tish’ah v’esrim, k’mo she’amarnu,” that before the stars came out, end of day of the twenty-ninth, if they already saw the new moon, then the messengers could already set out on the way right after, and they could already announce to the world earlier, “k’mo she’amarnu, sheshame’u mipi beis din ‘mekudash’ v’hem yotz’im ba’erev.”

“Aval shluchei she’ar sheshes hachadashim,” the messengers of the other six months, not that it’s not so important, it’s less important, they can yes go out “me’erev achar shenir’eh hayare’ach, af al pi she’adayin lo kidshu beis din es hachodesh,” they could yes go out even before beis din already said the word “mekudash,” “ho’il v’nir’eh hachodesh,” that you know that beis din is going to do it, they can already go out, “shehare’i l’machar b’vadai mekadshin oso beis din.”

Discussion: Why Are Nisan and Tishrei Different?

Speaker 2: Why not Nisan and Tishrei? What’s the difference again? This is more important, you need to know more established, as you say.

Speaker 1: Eh, he says, this is Tishrei, you could really make a mistake, you could always be that… and if so he’ll make Yom Kippur the wrong day. If you’ll make the wrong day Chanukah, it’s not the end of the world, we’ll eat an extra day of donuts. The Beis Yosef’s question on that year was answered.

But in Nisan and Tishrei it’s more relevant, they were careful only to go out when it’s already mekudash. It’s not a law like that before the messengers don’t have the right because it’s not yet true. It’s a practical thing. If you would know for certain that they’re going, there’s no question, but you don’t know anything for certain.

Speaker 2: ⟦#5⟧

Halacha 11 — Second Day Yom Tov Out of Doubt

Speaker 1: The Rambam says here an interesting halacha. Here is how the difference begins to happen between when there’s one day Yom Tov, and what we know as second day Yom Tov. Today it’s called second day Yom Tov of the diaspora, but here you see second day Yom Tov from distant places.

Says the Rambam like this, “kol makom shehayu hashluchim magi’im…” The places where it was close enough and the messengers arrived before Yom Tov, “hayu nohagim b’oso hamakom yom tov echad kakkasuv baTorah,” they made it according to the correct one, they made it either a day earlier or a day later, but they only made it one day. “V’hamekamos harechokim she’ein hashluchim magi’im aleihem,” and distant places where the messengers didn’t arrive, “hayu osin shnei yamim mipnei hasafek, l’fi she’ein yod’im es hayom shekav’u vo beis din Rosh Chodesh eizeh yom hu,” since they didn’t know, they had to make two days Yom Tov.

He says, so he explains. Now there’s an interesting thing, this is simple. There’s an interesting case of places where sometimes messengers do arrive and sometimes not.

Halacha 12 — Places Where Messengers of Nisan Come But Messengers of Tishrei Don’t

Speaker 1: He says, another detail in this matter that you must make sometimes two days Yom Tov out of doubt. He says, “yesh mekamos shehayu magi’im aleihem shluchei Nisan, v’lo hayu magi’im aleihem shluchei Tishrei,” it took longer, I know, winter, summer, or reasons. “Min hadin hayah she’ya’asu Pesach yom tov echad,” Pesach yes messengers arrived. Let’s say distant places, but because Pesach the messengers did arrive in time.

Why Also Sukkos Two Days – Kedei Shelo Lachalok BaMo’ados

And Sukkos then, the Rambam will explain why, not just like I said winter summer. There’s a reason why for Pesach the messengers should always arrive, and for Sukkos not.

The Rambam’s explanation: Messengers of Tishrei couldn’t go on the first of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) and not on the tenth of it (Yom Kippur). Therefore there are two days they couldn’t go. Therefore it could come out places where for Nisan messengers would arrive, and for Tishrei not. A day is a distance, every day you can go a certain amount.

So the halacha would have had to be with common sense, that Pesach should be only one day and Sukkos should be two days. Why should Sukkos be two days? Since the messengers didn’t reach them.

But the Chachamim said “kedei shelo lachalok bamo’ados,” so as not to make a difference between the festivals. It shouldn’t come out that Pesach which… and the Torah says about both one day, yes, “bayom harishon Shabbason,” etc. And here you’re going to make some change in the Torah. It’s going to look somehow not right. One Yom Tov will have two days, and one Yom Tov will have one day.

Kedei shelo lachalok bamo’ados, so as not to make the difference between the festivals, yes, that’s the matter? What’s the problem to divide between festivals?

Speaker 2: Did you already say a Torah?

Speaker 1: It’s such a plug, he says it’s just a question. Okay.

General Rule: You Can’t Make Too Many Divisions

In short, I need to remember, one of the important rules of Judaism is that you can’t make too many divisions. The Master of the Universe has a thousand details and nuances, by every thing there are too many divisions, but this isn’t too much. You shouldn’t ask any question.

Decree of the Sages: People will confuse the world. One day and the second day. Come on, I need to remember Pesach. How many Jews remember that on the seventh of Pesach you don’t say Shehecheyanu on Yom Tov? Nobody knows, right? The Mishnah Berurah asks, every year my wife asks me again, if you make Shehecheyanu on the seventh of Pesach. On Shemini Atzeres you say yes, on the seventh of Pesach no. For scholars it’s different, because that’s… Nobody knows.

In short, on that it’s not such an important thing, not dangerous. But he’ll make Pesach one day, and two days, nobody will remember, they won’t make, or they won’t make it this way, or they won’t make it that way, it will become a confusion. Right.

Even Atzeres – Kedei Shelo Lachalok

This is a decree of the Sages, “shekol makom she’ein shluchei Tishrei magi’in lo osam shnei yamim tovim. Afilu yom tov shel Atzeres,” even Pesach and even Yom Tov of Atzeres.

The novelty of Atzeres is that Atzeres is almost never relevant that there’s a doubt, because it’s fifty days after Pesach, and by that time everyone knows when Rosh Chodesh Nisan was, the three months back almost. Nevertheless, kedei shelo lachalok from the law you make Yom Tov also Atzeres two days.

Two Days Yom Tov Doesn’t Prevent Living in Chutz La’aretz

English Translation

But we also see very clearly that no one would think to say that one may only live in Eretz Yisrael, there where one can observe Yom Tov as it should be. We learned in Hilchos Deos about places where a Jew may not live, where there is no doctor, where there is no talmid chacham, but still, it’s not a barrier to where a person should live. A punishment comes, one must make two days of Yom Tov. Perhaps there is reward in the merit? I don’t know, it could be that there is also a law that Eretz Yisrael should be settled, as we have seen, I don’t know in Hilchos Ir, that it is certainly a mitzvah.

I want, I want, I want also already, when here the Rambam had a clear proof that it’s not yet Yom Tov. “And not on the tenth of it”, from the day of Yom Kippur. Therefore there are two days that they couldn’t go. Therefore places could come out where on Nissan the messengers would indeed arrive, and on Tishrei. A day is a distance, every day one can go a certain amount. Very good.

Halacha 14: Who Are the Messengers – Even One Witness is Believed

Now, what is… yes, let’s finish already. What is already to the end? Why not? Another ten everything.

Who are the messengers? What is the law of the messengers?

Says the Rambam, the messengers don’t have the law of witnesses, it’s something of a different type of thing than witnesses. “There are no messengers of more than two, rather even one witness is believed”.

Says the Rambam, “and not only a messenger”, not even does it need to be a specific messenger of the beis din, “but even a merchant from among the people”, a merchant who travels around in distant places, “who came on his way” – ah, because merchants travel, as we learn many times, right? Yes, “caravans are common”, merchants. “And said: I heard from the beis din that they sanctified the month on such-and-such a day, he is believed”.

Reason for the Law: A Matter That Will Become Revealed

And from the fixing of the festivals, why is it called from the fixing of the festivals? What is the language “from the fixing”? I think it means something like, one establishes the… yes, I always thought one corrects something. One doesn’t correct anything, it means one says, one builds the sukkah that day.

Says the Rambam, why? “Because this matter is destined to become revealed”. In the end one will become aware that it’s true. Eventually people will come and say, and such a thing is “one valid witness is believed about it”. Something that will become revealed in the end, one valid witness is believed. Because there is “avida l’igluyei”, the world can know this.

Discussion: Why Didn’t the Kusim Make Trouble Here?

Interesting, why they didn’t… but they did have a fear here from the Kusim. It seems that the Kusim were only good at making trouble on the late…

Speaker 2: No, one witness means he says “one valid witness”. One must know that he is not a Kusi. A Kusi, one sees, he goes with a Kusi badge.

Speaker 1: No, a heimishe. We’re talking about a heimishe. We’re not talking about any non-Jew coming. A non-Jew is not believed. A kosher Jew is one witness believed as a matter that will become revealed. Yes, okay.

And perhaps a fax would also have been good. I don’t know. I don’t want to say.

Halacha 15-16: When Witnesses Come Late After the Beis Din Has Already Made It Full

Already, says the Rambam further. Now comes here a halacha that I think I’ll mention, that here until the end of the chapter it speaks of something of a wondrous incident, and they will say what it says. I think this is much harder to understand than the calculations that one will learn in chapter 7 and so on.

Says the Rambam like this, it has to do with that one’s. Yes, yes, so. “A beis din that sat all thirty days and no witnesses came” – no witnesses came. What did they do? “And they arose at dawn”. I don’t know, today in Eretz Yisrael neshef they call a party. Perhaps it has something to do? I see that the whole time when there is a party of neshef, I don’t know. An afternoon party like that. Usually by neshef, they made the festive meals over a month, yes? Very good. Because like a party. Right.

“And after four or five days”, after four or five days, “distant witnesses came”, distant witnesses, people from the distances, “and testified that they saw the new moon in its time on the night of the thirtieth, even if they came at the end of the month”.

Oh, now there is a problem. So, it seems that the problem is, yes, do you agree? The problem is that it’s embarrassing. The beis din has already made a whole party, announced that it’s Rosh Chodesh the thirty-first day. Meanwhile people come, they say, in their town they saw the moon on the thirtieth day. So the beis din will go out and retract, and the beis din may not retract. It’s very important. So there is a solution.

The Procedure: Threatening and Troubling

One does this: “We threaten them with great scrutiny”, one scares them well. “And we trouble them with questions”, one asks them all kinds of small difficulties: where was the moon? Was it in front of the sun? Was it before us? Was it that way? Above? Below? All these questions that one saw? Double, triple. One confuses them. “And we trouble them with examinations”, one asks them, was it certain, were you standing on one foot or on two feet? Was it dark or light? Ah, it was light, and it was dark. In short, “and we are precise in their testimony”, one seeks too many details, like people who seek that everything should be invalid, you know, has all kinds of questions. This one does.

“And the beis din strives not to sanctify this month, since its name has gone out as full”. There is a concept, as you explained earlier, that if the beis din has sanctified, meaning the night of the thirtieth, then the whole problem doesn’t begin, sanctified is sanctified. But on full there isn’t this law, because the beis din didn’t say full, it’s only that its name went out. Certainly, the beis din, everyone knows that the beis din made the month full, but there is no law of “you even if inadvertent” on this. Therefore, if one will judge the witnesses, it will be a problem.

So one tries not to, one confuses them, it’s as if false, a bit false. That is, usually one doesn’t seek, the beis din knows when it should be, the beis din doesn’t usually seek to invalidate witnesses. But here one seeks to invalidate them, and one confuses them, and one frightens them, until… if it succeeds.

When It Doesn’t Succeed

What if it doesn’t succeed? “And if the witnesses stood in their testimony”, they are so stubborn, they have intentions, it’s true, this thing was true, yes? “And the witnesses saw men who are known and understanding”, it’s not just some passerby, they are known men, understanding people, they don’t let themselves be confused, they have already learned Rambam, they already know the trick. “And the testimony was investigated properly, then we sanctify it, and we make full for it the month from what was publicized. And since it was seen on the night”, one counts from this month from the thirtieth day. So says the holy Rambam.

And this means one changes the whole calculation, that is if it was Pesach differently, whatever. Yes.

Halacha 17: Making the Month Full When Necessary

Says the Rambam like this, “And if the beis din needed to make this month full with a fullness when witnesses didn’t come to them”, sometimes there is a need, it’s missing. What does it mean it’s missing? There is some calculation that it’s missing? That’s what I think. There are some calculations why one should need… yes, he doesn’t say why, “if they needed”. Some reason one wants that the month should be full.

That is, we know very well that it’s not full, but… ah, I say there on 76, look, that if it can be eaten, because it’s the next Rosh Chodesh not matching. We will later learn the calculations and understand why this comes out.

So then one may, then “we leave”, that is even if there are valid witnesses everything is valid and proper, so everything. “And this is what they said: we make the month full when necessary”. There is such a concept, the Gemara says that one is “making the month full when necessary”. And the Gemara stands, an inquiry about this, let’s not remember, I don’t remember if it says that one can or one cannot, that is over a year one makes full when necessary, it says clearly. That is, it doesn’t go specifically with the calculation, if it’s missing one can make full the year.

But the Rambam learns that also the month one can make full when necessary, but when necessary, not if it’s if the witnesses only came later, on this says the Rambam that there is such a thing, “making the month full when necessary”, and one may leave even if there are witnesses, the witnesses are not forced.

Dispute: There Are Among the Great Sages

Says the Rambam, “And there are among the great sages”, there are among the great sages. Who are they? Do you know? Who are the great sages? Whom does he mean? In the Gemara he means. Interesting. What do they argue about this?

“And they say that one never makes the month full when necessary, rather whenever witnesses come we sanctify and we don’t threaten them.”

That is, the Rambam brings two opinions. There is one who says that when one needs, one pushes away the witnesses, in short, one doesn’t make Rosh Chodesh the thirtieth day. There are those who say, no, there is no such thing, one doesn’t make the month full when necessary, the month must go with the moon, there are witnesses, one must follow.

Three Opinions, Not Two — Authority of Beis Din Versus Witnesses

You can say more, there are three things. It’s a very difficult sugya, because as they said, at the end of chapter 2 it seems that if the witnesses didn’t come in time before the thirtieth day ended, it automatically becomes the thirty-first. That’s how the Rambam looked in chapter 2, and so everything would match according to this.

But here comes two more opinions, that this is if the witnesses, perhaps if the witnesses are quiet, the witnesses know about this that the thirty-first day becomes, they don’t call themselves. But if the witnesses are nudges, they come and they should say their thing, then the beis din cannot ignore them, or one can invalidate them, or one must take them seriously. But if it comes out a reason that the next month will come out that Rosh Chodesh will be the not correct day because of this, then there is a dispute in the Gemara whether when there is no choice one must follow the witnesses or not.

Better straight, I think like the question is here as if how much authority the beis din has versus the witnesses. And chapter 2 had implied that all the authority lies in the beis din, and the witnesses are only something like… a formality, that the beis din does it according to witnesses, but here it seems that the witnesses do have a strong power, and the beis din cannot ignore them if it’s… there is much to investigate about this, but I want to finish the chapter. Let’s finish.

Halacha 18 — The Rambam’s Decision: “It Seems to Me”

Says the Rambam, “it seems to me”, as I see, “that there is no dispute of the sages in this matter”, even the one who says that what, that one can indeed confuse and not follow the witnesses, is only “in other months besides Nissan and Tishrei”. Then there is a time that one can indeed sanctify the month retroactively, because it’s not dangerous. “Or with witnesses of Nissan and Tishrei after the festivals passed” after Yom Tov, “that already what was done was done, and the time of the sacrifices passed”, anyway one can make Yom Tov the wrong day. Then there are those who say that what that one threatens and one leaves the month as it is.

“But if witnesses came in Nissan and Tishrei before half the month”, that is one can still catch to have Sukkos the correct day, “we accept them”, says the Rambam, “initially according to all opinions we accept them and we don’t threaten them at all, for we don’t threaten witnesses who saw in its time in order to make it full”.

Innovation: Threatening — Exactly Opposite of What One Would Think

The Rambam says, he holds that the threatening is not when the witnesses say clearly that they saw the month at the correct time and we should make it full because we are threatening.

But when does one indeed threaten? That the witnesses, he says, “when their testimony became corrupted”, when their testimony is something wrong, “and behold the matter leans that the testimony will not be established and the month will be made full, then we threaten them so that the testimony will be established and the month will be sanctified”. Exactly opposite, one threatens when the witnesses, when something is wrong with their testimony, we know that it should indeed be Rosh Chodesh today, so one threatens that they should indeed say, they should not retract, they should not be confused.

“And likewise, if witnesses came to contradict the witnesses who saw in its time and the beis din sanctified”, and what, and further, we know that it indeed comes out, “behold we threaten the contradictors until the contradiction is not established and the month is sanctified in its time”.

The Key: The Calculation of the Beis Din

One must bring into this conversation the conversation of the calculation, right? This is apparently the secret to find. The Rambam holds that almost, that is, there were other opinions in general, Rav Saadia Gaon held that always one made a calculation, let’s not go in now. But the Rambam said earlier that the beis din always knows truly when Rosh Chodesh should be, right? They know when it was. Right, they know.

So if one understands this way, then the halacha becomes a bit easier, because the Rambam looks at it that essentially one knows. Sometimes the witnesses don’t know, it’s their problem. One must confuse them and they should say correctly. So on this the Rambam understands that the only time not, one has already made a mistake a whole month, it’s already too late. Okay, so there is honor of the beis din, sometimes one can let it go. But otherwise, the Rambam is very strongly inclined to the time that one must indeed make the correct time.

That is, what the Rambam says that if the witnesses come earlier, before Yom Tov, one must indeed accept it, speaks in a manner that one knows that the witnesses are correct.

Discussion: Contradiction Between End of Chapter 2 and Chapter 3

Speaker 2:

Yes, and what was the end of chapter 2?

Speaker 1:

One must say that then he speaks that one knows that they are not correct. I don’t know. Perhaps there is sometimes that it can be both. One must learn better the calculation later to see if there are months that it can be both.

Speaker 2:

What is an option like?

Speaker 1:

I said, because the sighting, there is indeed an obligation that there should be sighting, so it can be that sometimes it can be according to reality. At the end of chapter 2 it implied even if the beis din itself saw it, they make a silence from it. It can’t be that the witnesses can only be stronger with their own sighting. I don’t know. And it’s a question. I don’t know the answer.

But this is how I understand you in a general manner.

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This is until here chapter 3. Wonderful.