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Rambam Hilchos Berachos Chapter 7 – Derech Eretz at a Meal

Introduction to the Shiur

Rabbosai, we are learning the holy Rambam, a chapter every day, Hilchos Berachos, Chapter 7. We are learning Hilchos Berachos. This chapter is an interesting chapter, because it's not really about berachos, but it's slightly connected, because in the previous chapters we learned - we learned the general halachos of berachos, but then we went more into the details of how birchas hamazon works, and from birchas hamazon we came to, if people sit together, which leads very well into us now considering a meal. Here the Rambam includes the halachos of derech eretz at a meal, which doesn't really have to do with hilchos berachos. Part of it is how to make the berachah on which type of bread, but the main thing is how to conduct a proper, mentchlich, derech eretz meal.

Hilchos Birchas Hamazon is very much about hakaras hatov. This chapter, especially, is about honoring the gadol shebakulam, as we will see later inside, and the concept of hakaras hatov.

Announcement About the Shiur

Today, my dear friend and partner in this shiur, HaRav Rabbi Yitzchak, has a beis hamidrash where he teaches several shiurim, from which many Jews learn from him. I have also received much Torah from him. So as hakaras hatov, it's fitting that everyone should come in, get involved, help, become partners, and this way he will be able to continue with the avodas hakodesh.

This shiur is donated by our friend, a partner who helps with the avodas hakodesh of Rabbi Yitzchak and of this shiur, HaRav Rabbi Yoel Werzberger, and may the merit stand by him, amen, until one hundred and twenty years.

The Rambam's Language: "Minhagos Rabim Nahagu Chachmei Yisrael B'seudah"

The Rambam says: "Minhagos rabim nahagu chachmei Yisrael b'seudah."

It's interesting, it should be "minhagos rabos," no? If it's "minhagim rabim," then it's "minhagos rabos." Actually, the Rambam usually doesn't tell stories. They say the Rambam didn't usually tell stories. The chapter is usually for the most part... The Rambam goes up to a certain mitzvah, when he begins a new topic he writes the language of the pasuk or whatever.

This chapter is a somewhat interesting chapter, because we're talking about how to conduct oneself when eating.

Discussion: The Rambam's Order Versus the Shulchan Aruch's Order

Speaker 1: And here we're holding at another long debate that I had with my partner R' Yitzchak. I argued that it's a somewhat interesting thing, because the order of the Shulchan Aruch is that the Shulchan Aruch is like a "guidebook" for a person. The Shulchan Aruch is there to help Jews go through their day, so you start with when a person gets up in the morning, "Shivisi Hashem l'negdi tamid," you start with such and such, and it goes with you through the seder hayom. After davening you go to work, and after that comes hilchos Minchah, and so on.

But the Rambam has a different "mission." He also does the same "basic" thing that he's there to help Jews to know Hashem, to know how to follow the Ribbono Shel Olam's Torah, but he doesn't say it in that way. He says that everything that's in Torah shebichsav and Torah sheba'al peh, I'm going to organize for you in a nice, convenient way according to the mitzvos primarily. So essentially, regarding this, the Rambam's sefer is not like the Shulchan Aruch to accompany a person according to the order of times, like for example in Hilchos Zemanim he doesn't start from Nissan and go further to Sivan according to the order of the year, or according to the order of the day or Shabbos he won't start like the Shulchan Aruch starts with hilchos hashkamas haboker and he goes in order and he goes to the melachos, rather he goes with the principles, because he goes according to the mitzvos.

Here we do have, in Sefer Ahavah we do have, because we already had that the Rambam told us exactly how a Jew starts his day until after davening. Yes, but it's "not exactly." Because for example, in a certain way you could argue that Krias Shema comes before tefillah, but the Rambam laid down Hilchos Krias Shema and he says that there are also berachos of Krias Shema, then comes De'os, so it's very interesting. So usually the Rambam wouldn't have needed at all to accompany a person when he goes, what he does what.

But the Rambam wanted to explain by berachos that berachos are made when one experiences something. For example, when a person comes out of the bathroom he needs to make the berachah, or when he wakes up he needs to make "Hanosen lasechvi vinah." But he wakes up he needs to make "Oseh ma'aseh bereishis." He also discusses, you go to the beis hamidrash, and there's already a concept of... He also didn't say when to daven when Krias Shema is written there.

Speaker 2: You mean one chapter, you're talking about one chapter which is from hilchos birchos hashachar.

Speaker 1: Okay, because it's a list of berachos that goes on the second. And here we go a bit further, because he just finished like... But what you thought, even here, first he said that there's a thing of Birchas Hamazon, then he learned that there's ikar and tafel and so on. Now here it's not so much the...

Speaker 2: No, but I want to get to something that this chapter is really completely very interestingly different.

Discussion: Why Does Derech Eretz at a Meal Belong Here?

Speaker 1: Because I argued to R' Yitzchak that what does derech eretz at a meal mean? If you're going to go into every small detail of derech eretz, it comes from a different place. Certain things are a matter of what's healthy, so it's a branch of "v'nishmartem." Certain things are because it's kibud av, so it's a branch of kibud av. Some is honor for the baal habayis, or therefore it belongs in Sefer HaMidos, "kodem kol tihyeh chacham." But in practice, because it's a meal, it got hilchos seudah.

Speaker 2: R' Yitzchak argues no, that the reason why one must conduct oneself differently at a meal is not about... I'll argue what I argue. Both are true. I'm arguing the first. Let's read the first. I'm not arguing anything. We're learning and arguing and telling a shitah. Perhaps you already discussed it in parentheses. I don't know.

The Rambam's Language: "V'chulan Derech Eretz Hen"

Speaker 1: Yes, so what, the Rambam says that the customs that are written in the Gemara are actually just customs, it's not any halachah, not d'Oraisa. Not rabbinic, but a custom. But it does have an obligation, because they are all derech eretz. And derech eretz is something that everyone must conduct themselves with. So it could be that's why it says here "v'chulan derech eretz hen", to tell you that these customs, it's not just a custom like the other customs that we have, minhag beis aba bidai.

We can be derech eretz a bit, as we learned, that all these the Chachamim instituted because of derech eretz. So why do we need to follow this? That was also a question. We need to follow it because the chachmei Yisrael instituted it, or because it's derech eretz? But the Rambam says both.

It could be like this, that there are many concepts of derech eretz that exist in the general culture, but you don't have to follow that. You saw that the chachmei Yisrael chose. First of all, you also said something that one shouldn't follow customs of non-Jews which is not a matter of derech eretz, just such a custom. So what do we need to do as derech eretz? All the more so that we don't follow normal customs. Our derech eretz we need to go only what the chachmei Yisrael chose, chose that this is adapted derech eretz. But derech eretz is the word.

Discussion: R' Yoel Dovid Schwartz's Explanation of "V'chulan Derech Eretz Hen"

Speaker 2: No, I want to get to this, because here there's another thing. I argued like this, I mean that, I remember that we already learned this once when we were together, I don't know if we had this disagreement then or not, in any case that's how I remember. And the language "kulan derech eretz hen" puts me on the opposite of what R' Yoel Dovid Schwartz says. R' Yoel Dovid Schwartz says that here is essentially a collection of halachos. It was difficult for him the connection, where does this come from? It's a different thing, one is hilchos this, one is hilchos that. Everything always comes together at the meal. The Rambam comes and he says no, "kulan derech eretz hen." Ah, it says later halachos that one is motzi on a whole loaf for example, seemingly one would have thought that this is hilchos berachos, the measure of the berachah.

Speaker 1: Does he argue, does Yitzchak argue?

Speaker 2: No.

Speaker 1: No, these are instructions, and we've said clearly many times, mitzvah min hamuvchar livtzo'a al shalem. This is the mitzvah min hamuvchar of the berachah.

Speaker 2: I heard what you're saying. He argues that on this the Rambam came and wrote "kulan derech eretz hen," and this is all derech eretz. By the way, derech eretz for a berachah is also a type of derech eretz. Overall I think that this is not a din in the berachah, it's more a derech eretz. Just like kibud av va'em is a Torah obligation, but that the father sits at the head, the gadol, it doesn't say in hilchos kibud av va'em how is kibud av va'em, he sits at the head at the meal. This is a derech eretz style, the proper, what you say the culture or the manners that one conducts, and because this is for derech eretz, but it's from the din. It could be that even regarding derech eretz what is the obligation to honor a gadol and the like, and this is not really that obligation. This is derech eretz, do you understand what I'm saying? For this one can learn principles in derech eretz, and a person says, none of these things is any halachah. If by someone it means that in his image and likeness is a slob, he shouldn't be any halachah, derech eretz.

Speaker 1: Ah, derech eretz, that's a second question that we thought about on this chapter, whether it's an obligation?

Discussion: Is Derech Eretz at a Meal an Obligation?

Speaker 1: Because a person can learn this chapter and think, from now on I know that I must eat breakfast every day at the table nicely dressed and like a person, as my Hungarian grandmother said, "eat like a person, dress like a person, get ready," because one must prepare for this.

Rabbi Yitzchak brought an interesting thing, that we learned yesterday in the Rambam that the way how one washes netilas yadayim is one pours for him. I'm waiting, I'm already sticking out my hands for ten minutes, no one is pouring, my gabbaim aren't, my chassidim aren't yet big enough chassidim, I don't know. It's in any case not simple that it's an obligation that everyone should wash themselves this way. The Rambam speaks very much, in halachah one can see, that we're talking about the successful one, the person who is a head of household who has children who stand there and serve him.

I don't know if most people come to this, or even a minority. I don't know, it could be it's only a "perfect picture" of one in a thousand people who has such a thing, everything works for him, and he sits, and there are beds, and if I don't have three beds one in front of the other, the halachos are...

Speaker 2: Yes good, how is the nicest form that a person who has indeed figured it out and everything works for him, and he makes a nice meal, how should he do it the best way.

Speaker 1: Yes good, so it's not a contradiction. One must think a halachah, because I just want to clarify for myself.

Discussion: Does Derech Eretz at a Meal Only Apply at a Formal Meal?

Speaker 1: One can say like this, if someone for example is a young man who works hard, or is a great masmid, and he grabs a sandwich in the car, one will say, that doesn't mean he ate according to hilchos derech eretz v'seudah. But I would argue that no, I would argue that a meal is an appreciation of a type of bachurim who sit and eat a meal. But when a person is tired, or a person was so involved in learning a whole week, he doesn't sit with bachurim and he grabs a sandwich, it's not a meal, he's exempt from the derech eretz. But he's still obligated in matters of cleanliness, he's still obligated in making Birchas Hamazon with concentration. He should find his best way to do it. He must think when he's going to work it out.

Speaker 2: No, I mean to say, here we come back yes, because it's the derech eretz. You think that in a car you're exempt from derech eretz? In a car there must also be cleanliness.

Speaker 1: But not in this way, but that's another topic.

Speaker 2: It doesn't say here, let's be clear, it doesn't say here that every time one eats one must make the meal. It says when one makes a meal, a meal that comes with the whole respect,

Hilchos Derech Eretz at a Meal — The Gadol Shebakulam Washes First, Order of Sitting, and the Baal Habayis Breaks Bread

Introduction: Derech Eretz at a Meal — Halachos for the Wealthy

By the way, derech eretz, it could actually be that there's such a pasuk "v'atem tihyu li mamleches kohanim". It could be that derech eretz, in general what does derech eretz mean? There is, as we mentioned that there is when Chassidic Jews conduct themselves with things are sometimes, and there's perhaps a point, that there's a non-Jew who is very refined, who is a bad person. Okay, but the essence you see Chazal are very much lengthy in derech eretz.

The halachos of derech eretz, I mean it's a question whether one can say it in the beis hamidrash, halachos of derech eretz which are the halachos that say who goes first, whether you put the fork on the left side and the spoon on the right side, I don't know what kinds of things. Very good, I mean that this matter is a very interesting thing, yes. It's an elevated thing, and the simple meaning that a Jew, as it says in a Mishnah on Pesach, afilu ani shebeYisrael lo yochal ad sheyaseiv. That means, a whole week he indeed doesn't eat at a meal. But on Shabbos, Yom Tov, Pesach, a Jew comes and he makes a whole meal.

Certainly, derech eretz, the halachos of derech eretz come for people who are wealthy. All these halachos from Maseches Berachos you see there's a servant. How do you see a servant? How do you see a servant? I have a cleaning lady, she's not a servant for the meal. It's a very interesting thing. But essentially, every Jew must be wealthy with this. I mean, the way why ehrliche Jews, one has often heard to dismiss the etiquette, it's very possible that the Germans were very strict. There was the peak of that, the German culture.

Our parents grew up and raised us with a dirty hatred toward the German culture. It took us here a piece of time until we started again to appreciate derech eretz at a meal. And one is no longer raised on this, and it's just actually easier.

I mean to say, Sephardim halachah, a richer Sephardic Jew also has a certain style which is different. There was just also a big difference between the poor and the rich. One who is a baal habayis, but a Sephardic baal habayis, they're going to remain comfortable, he also was the richer style.

Halachah l'ma'aseh it comes out like this, hilchos seudah was written for the wealthy. And certainly, all these, if it can even be a poor person to be careful about certain halachos, it must have a reason. You have two broken pieces of bread, there's a whole one, if one has a nice honor. But it's not about him we're speaking. We're speaking of a large challah with a cover.

Story: Salt in the Park

There's a tremendous story, I saw someone was going on Chol Hamoed, a young man, and he had there some roll or whatever, and he very much wanted to be careful about the matter of salt. You could immediately see that the fellow was going to stand about dipping the bread in salt. So he went to buy in a local non-Jewish grocery a bottle of salt, and he dragged himself to the park and he poured a bit in salt. Where one can say, "wow, the person who really exerts himself to do a mitzvah properly," but it could be that he's not doing the right thing at all.

Chumros for Pesach — For Whom Are They Made?

Let's see soon as we are only because we are. I said about this an interesting custom. I deal with many divorced people, I have the organization "Achar Maderech," I with R' Moshe Abutbul who you know, and I pasken for Pesach. I saw that many of them have a great hard time with chumros for Pesach, because they're used to being comfortable, a person has a large counter and he's now going to cover it. Many of them live such a slave-like life, they live alone, they don't have... It's such a "man cave" as it's called.

Laws of Blessings Chapter 7 – The Order of Breaking Bread, Birkat HaMazon by the Guest, and the Choicest Mitzvah

The Rambam's Position on Cutting the Bread

Speaker 1: On the contrary, one must first cut, and hold the bread, just as we do during the week when there is no concept of wholeness, which we say only according to the Hagahot Maimoniyot. But the Rambam says that one cuts on... one makes the blessing and then cuts. It appears that the Rambam is less stringent about interruption than others. He doesn't hold that this is a problem of interruption, because one cuts, this is the blessing for the... Okay, yes.

The Baal HaBayit Breaks Bread, the Guest Recites Birkat HaMazon

Speaker 1: Who should make the blessing. He only says that the order of who makes which blessings, the baal habayit... when we speak of the gadol we're talking about the baal habayit, the baal habayit is the one who says hamotzi, but the baal habayit is the one who cuts for everyone, it's his bread, he distributes. But birkat hamazon should not be said by the baal habayit, rather one should give an opportunity to the guest "so that he can bless the baal habayit." We learned yesterday in the previous laws about the text of birkat hamazon that there is a blessing for the baal habayit, so the guest can say it. Because sometimes, we're talking here that the one who benches, only he benches, and all others answer, they listen and fulfill through listening. So the guest should be the only one who says it, he should be able to bless the baal habayit.

Discussion: The Reason for "So That He Can Bless the Baal HaBayit"

Speaker 2: I think, but what you just said that the others, the Tosafot, the Rosh, they say that one must cut, but they also say that one should hold the bread whole. So the custom became that during the week one should cut almost completely, but leave something. We don't usually have whole bread the entire week, so it's not relevant. A roll, okay, a roll one doesn't need to break.

Speaker 1: Yes, the truth is apparently indeed such a small roll or such a thing one doesn't need to tear open. The whole question doesn't begin, because we're talking about a large bread that one will want to slice beforehand. I think it's also only for a baal habayit. When someone eats alone, he can tear and eat from that piece as he began. We're talking here when there's a whole community and one must cut, it takes a few minutes until one cuts for everyone.

Speaker 2: I'm thinking now that the guest benching is a simple thing. Avraham Avinu invited guests, he wanted to bless them, he said, "Bless the Almighty."

Speaker 1: But it appears that it can be that the guest, it's fitting that he says thanks for the meal, generally speaking. Certainly he gives thanks to the Almighty, and to the baal habayit, both. But the guest's blessing is like a courtesy, a hint of the great birkat hamazon, where one blesses the great Baal HaBayit. So it makes sense, it's not just a matter of "so that he can bless," that he should have something to enjoy.

I understand that there's an okay. "And if they were all baalei batim". What does "if they were all" mean? "All" apparently means it's a family. A partnership or a family. "The greatest among them breaks bread". So the greatest among them breaks bread and benches most of the time. Ah, good. Okay.

The Baal HaBayit Is the One Who Cuts

Speaker 1: Let me tell you something, "One breaks bread and one is not permitted to break bread until he brings salt and places before each and every one". This is an interesting thing. I'm going back to the matter that the baal habayit is the one who cuts the bread. It's also not necessarily so. I feel that often at seudah shlishit they place before people a large challah, I don't know, the rav should make it. I'm not so fond of rabbinic things specifically, or not yet, I'm still learning. And I feel that it's not a matter that it's an honor to cut the large challah, rather the baal habayit recites hamotzi lechem, because it's his challah, he distributes. If he's going to give a guest to distribute, the guest won't know how much to give, and he'll also be afraid of giving too much at the baal habayit's expense. The baal habayit cuts the challah. Birkat hamazon is already not the matter. I don't know if it's a matter of honor or on the contrary, it could be that it's less honor. The rabbi has to be the one who cuts the challah for the people.

Discussion: Reasons for Baal HaBayit Breaking Bread

Speaker 2: There are two things, there's the baal habayit. Baal habayit, because he gives bread, it's his, he distributes as much as he wants to give.

Speaker 1: No, it's for the sake of ayin yafah (generosity) as the Korban Netanel brings. No, for the sake of ayin yafah.

Speaker 2: Ah, who is another thing? As if one should distribute leftovers.

Speaker 1: I'm just saying, there's no honor in cutting the large challah. When I'm the two a large challah. When I'm the cutting the cutting. No, the first cutting. Because today what people do hamotzi for themselves, I'm just explaining the whole thing. We're talking here about a meal that should have been a meal. The rabbi would have, the rabbi cuts the hamotzi, and he gives each one a piece of challah. Certainly, the meal is screaming. When I, I can scream every day at supper, I give it to the children.

Speaker 2: No, the Rebbe didn't like to distribute for the reason of screaming, he liked to give gifts. He distributed food to Jews, that was a different kind of thing.

Speaker 1: Ah, that's what he means, that's the matter. The main thing is not screaming, but distributing food to Jews.

"Not a Large Piece... and Not a Small Piece"

Speaker 1: As you say, the order was once, and today there are also places where they conduct themselves this way, yes, they bring a large tray, and the rabbi places on the large tray. And it seems so, one breaks bread and not a small piece, he shouldn't give too small a piece, because it looks like he's stingy. And also he shouldn't give very stingy, it should actually not be stingy.

Speaker 2: Ah, it seems you mean to say, because even if he takes another piece, that one must give with breadth. We're also talking here in a way that the guest should feel comfortable.

Speaker 1: Yes, I understand, I'm just saying it seems, because it actually looks stingy. Even if he has a way to give more if one needs. One can say, whoever needs will ask for more, but it looks stingy. We're already talking about a father for his children, we're talking when there's a guest who can have the feeling. No, the one who breaks bread, the baal habayit who breaks bread.

Discussion: "And Not a Piece Leaving the Bowl" – The Context

Speaker 1: However, I say, but I tell you, all matters, one must understand the context. The context is, and not a piece leaving the bowl, that he shouldn't look like a glutton. For example, this is relevant today when one eats a large meal. He says on Shabbat, says the Rambam on Shabbat, one should eat large bread. Does "one should" mean one may or one must?

Speaker 2: One should, apparently here it means either one may or one should.

Speaker 1: Why? The Gemara says, because the whole week he eats delicately, so when he does so on Shabbat people know that he doesn't do it because he's a glutton, but he does it because he wants it to be an expansion of Shabbat.

Stories of Distributing Challah

Breaking of Bread Laws: Whole vs. Broken, Lechem Mishneh, and Order of Distribution

Speaker 1: I used to eat by Reb Elimelech Biderman on Shabbos, before he became a great rav. He would distribute half a challah for each bachur. So, he fulfilled the halacha, "v'hit'atru gedolim" (the great ones adorned themselves). He would go, I saw him, he would buy such a bag, he goes to the grocery erev Shabbos, he buys such a large bag, and he would cut challah. It was about half a challah for each one. And one had to, yes, bachurim finish it, anyway, it's not a problem. And so, with a challah, he can mark a previous generation. I don't know how it fits in, but that's how the custom was.

Speaker 2: Yes, the Tasher Rebbe also lies right there, a previous generation. He lived in those years. And the Tasher Rebbe, he also made for everyone, he gave them a lot to eat.

"V'ein botzein ela mimakom shebishulo yafeh yafeh"

Speaker 1: "V'ein botzein ela mimakom shebishulo yafeh yafeh", one should cut from where it's already well-baked, so that one shouldn't be delayed. That means, if a person will make the beracha and then cut, if he will cut from a place where it's not certain that it's already so good, there will be a hefsek (interruption).

Speaker 2: No, one is going to eat it anyway. I think that this is a kavod for the beracha. The beracha is made on the best piece. Simply so, yes.

Speaker 1: "Botzein me'av", that means how he begins, he's going to continue giving, he's not going to leave over half from the beracha. On this, so I think, so it seems to me, that's how I always understood the pshat.

Story of Menashe HaMelech and Rav Ashi

Speaker 1: On this is the well-known Gemara in Sanhedrin that Menashe HaMelech stated the halacha, yes? Do you remember? Achav, who was that? Rav Ashi was saying a shiur, he was holding by Maseches Sanhedrin and speaking about the three kings who have no portion in the World to Come, one of whom is Menashe. He said, "Tomorrow we will speak about our friends." Menashe came to him in a dream, and said to him, "You, friend? You, I'm your friend? I'm your father's friend? What do you think? Who do you think I am?" He said, "You don't even know from where one begins to make a Motzi, and you call me a friend?" He said, "Nu, tell me indeed from where one begins a Motzi?" Menashe told him, "One begins from the place of the crust that's baked, from where it's more baked." He said, "Ah, so you are indeed a talmid chacham, why did you serve avodah zarah?" He said, "You're talking? If you had been by me, you would have run after the avodah zarah." He lifted up his coat to be able to run.

The next morning early he said, "We're going to begin today to speak about our rabbis." So Rav Ashi called, here is the source of what we call the holy grandfather Korach. Rav Ashi said that Menashe, our rabbi, Rabbeinu Menashe, he was his rabbi, he told him a halacha how one is botze'a es hapas.

I think which well-known question should I take and see his goodness. I think about this with my candidates.

"Mitzva min hamuvchar livtzo'a" – Kavod for the Beracha

Speaker 1: So, that's what the Rebbe means... According to this one sees that lechatchila this is a kavod for the beracha. That's what he means. I think a lot, because people aren't so happy with their food, he puts a lot of quantity instead of quality. On the contrary, eat the best and eat a shiur. Mitzva min hamuvchar livtzo'a, when one looks in Shulchan Aruch, to begin, the Birkas HaMotzi should be on a whole loaf.

Discussion: What Does "Mitzva Min HaMuvchar" Mean?

Speaker 2: So here you're right, that here it says yes a mitzva, that there's a matter that it shouldn't be derech eretz. But one must understand, until now the language is "mitzva min hamuvchar". Where does it say so in the Gemara? So?

Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know. It's a mitzva according to... yes, yes. The language is "mitzva min hamuvchar".

Speaker 2: It's a bit audacious, because it's not that by a mitzva one understands that there should be a matter of "zeh Eli v'anveihu". Making a HaMotzi on the best piece of bread, one must think what's going on. It's a kavod on the Birkas HaMotzi. HaMotzi is even when he eats bread he must remain three shiurim on the bread. What's the pshat? But it's not a contradiction, because... ah, I think to say... I want to say so, it's not pshat that the eating is a preparation found for HaMotzi. So can sometimes say a great oved Hashem, that why does he eat? So that the eating becomes a mitzva of HaMotzi. But if someone eats only so that he can say a Birkas HaMotzi, he's perhaps exempt from a Torah, because it's not included in "v'achalta v'savata". One must eat satisfied, and one must thank the Almighty, one must have hakaras hatov.

Speaker 1: I hear. Not clear.

Speaker 2: "Mitzva min hamuvchar" apparently goes up on the beracha. The mitzva is the beracha, certainly. It's a kavod for the beracha. I think that this is the meaning. It's the most that I hear it tune. A beracha is a kavod. I think that this is the way. I think so, it's kavod for the beracha. Just as one must have kavod for an important Jew and the like, one must have kavod for a beracha. A beracha is made with a beautiful piece of challah. It has a taste to make a beracha from the week a beracha.

Speaker 1: Yes, but a beracha that I only made because the person is very happy with what he's now going to eat.

Speaker 2: Very good. He wasn't happy with the... he was a miser, he wanted to eat the half. He wanted to eat the half. Nu problem, if he doesn't want, he doesn't have to. We're talking now spoken from the state... One agrees on both. Therefore one says "mitzva min hamuvchar". Certainly one shouldn't throw out bread because of this, it's important.

But lemaaseh, there's a question. You make a beracha as a cry for the food, but now the beracha becomes the king. So the conclusion is that if one has one doesn't have. In mitzva min hamuvchar if one has, is lechatchila a whole loaf. Okay, after such a thing, if there's an interesting case that he has a whole one of barley, and a broken one, a prussa.

Laws of Breaking Bread: Whole vs. Broken, Lechem Mishneh, and Order of Distribution

Halacha 2 (continued) — Whole of Barley vs. Broken of Wheat

Speaker 1: Nu problem, if he doesn't want he doesn't have to. We're talking already that we've spoken. He agrees on both. Therefore one says mitzva min hamuvchar. Because you shouldn't throw out bread because of this, it's not... He agrees. It's indeed correct, you make a beracha because it's a cry for the food, but now the beracha becomes the king, and that's the priority. He agrees that if one doesn't have one doesn't have. We're talking mitzva min hamuvchar, if one has.

For the purpose of a whole thing. Okay. What's another thing? If there's an extreme case that he has a whole one of barley and a broken one, a prussa, a piece of challah, a piece of bread of wheat. So from the side of wheat is more important, on the other hand the barley is in wholeness. What does he do? Mani'ach prussa b'soch shlema u'votze'a mishteihen, kedei sheyivtza mechitim im shlema. He makes a shidduch between two Jews, he puts them both together, both two Jews should make, one has a virtue and one has a deficiency, he makes them a chavrusa, one should be botze'a from both.

And here the maggidim, the mashgichim say, that shleimus is more important than greatness. That a small whole roll is better than a large half. And then one can do both. Ah, yes. One puts both virtues. Yes, there's a dispute in the Kolbo, whatever it says in Toras. It's true that shleimus is very important, but it doesn't mean because of this one should be stingy. Everything has a shiur.

Hagahos Maimoniyos — The "Sar MiKutzi" and Pas Akum

Speaker 1: Shabbos and Yom Tov, yes, the Hagahos Maimoniyos brings more such types of better quality bread with weaker. And there he says that the Sar MiKutzi, he calls him... It's known that there was a Rabbeinu Shimshon MiKutzi, do you know a Rishon?

Speaker 2: Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: And there was a Sar, there's such a story that we call him a Sar MiKutzi, the plain MiKutzi said that they used to eat pas akum in Europe. That's how the order was, because there were only a few bakeries etc. He says that if someone has a pas akum and a pas Yisrael, and the pas akum is a whole one and the pas Yisrael is a half, is a prussa, he should pass over the pas akum. He shouldn't make a beracha on the pas akum together with the pas Yisrael, rather he should pass over the pas akum, he should only make the beracha on the pas Yisrael.

Digression: The Name "Sar MiKutzi"

Speaker 1: Wikipedia says that there are those who say that he was indeed a Sar, others say it can't be because he was a Rishon. Horsh, he turned it around like the shin dalet mem.

Speaker 2: No, he meant a Sar. Why should you be a rav? I want to be a Sar. I want to be a Sar on the world, I want to be a Sar on things.

Halacha 2 (continued) — Lechem Mishneh on Shabbos and Yom Tov

Speaker 1: Okay, further. On Shabbosos and Yamim Tovim, says the Rambam, one must take two. Chayav livtzo'a al shtei kikaros. This is a law in Hilchos Shabbos, because the Gemara says that it's a hint to the lechem mishneh. But the Rambam, I think that the halacha is in Hilchos Derech Eretz B'Seuda, he mentions there everything that's important at a meal. I think that he doesn't bring it in Hilchos Shabbos except the halacha. Doesn't it say? Let's check if it says in Hilchos Shabbos the halacha.

Discussion: Yom Tov — From Where?

Speaker 1: The point is, it's interesting to focus on "u'vyamim tovim". Our verse doesn't say clearly that Yom Tov also had lechem mishneh. But apparently, we are indeed accustomed on Yom Tov lechem mishneh. Why not?! The matter of lechem mishneh is not that one can't complain.

Speaker 2: He says that perhaps he means in the second halacha that when one has two kikaros one is indeed obligated, it's not just a matter. But then it's still standing, how should one hold both when one makes the beracha? Since it's two, but for cutting one cuts only one. One must take both breads.

Speaker 1: I understand, I need to speak. He looks in, he doesn't bring in Hilchos Shabbos again. They would have brought there if it says again in Hilchos Shabbos the halacha of lechem mishneh. It seems to me.

Rabbeinu Manoach says indeed that not everywhere is it clear that also on Yom Tov there is. But the Rambam rules that also on Yom Tov there is lechem mishneh.

Rabbeinu Manoach's Two Things in the Name of Abba Mari

Speaker 1: Rabbeinu Manoach says two interesting things. He tells us, there's such a very beautiful commentator on the Rambam who is called Rabbeinu Manoach. We don't know so much about him. We know that he was called Rabbeinu Manoach, and we know that he lived about 600 years ago. And he brings two things in the name of Abba Mari, whom besides Rabi Yitzchak no other people know who it is. The father of Rabbeinu Manoach, fortunate is she who bore him, he relates that his father cut up on Shabbos, he cut for the honor of the meal, he cut up according to the order: Friday night he cut seven slices, in the morning five, and at seudah shlishis three.

Just like the order of his 5-3-7, excuse me, his 7-5-3, which sometimes we have this order, for example that every day one reads by Krias HaTorah from BaHaB, when Monday and Thursday there are three aliyos, Yom Tov there are five aliyos, and Shabbos there are seven aliyos. And also the same thing regarding the mitzva of Kiddush HaChodesh. His father had a matter, on Shabbos one cut up according to the order. If someone knows the reason and matter according to Kabbalah, or if someone wants to make research on the father of Rabbeinu Manoach.

Discussion: What Is the Reason for Lechem Mishneh?

Speaker 1: And afterwards he brings another halacha from his father that... What is the matter of lechem mishneh? Wait, I claim that it's certainly obvious, the reason for lechem mishneh is stated in the Gemara, everyone knows, about the manna. But it's certain that... Let's think into it, it doesn't make sense. The manna on Friday was two, on Shabbos was one.

Speaker 2: Ah, that's what I asked you, that if it's really a... We can learn that it's really a celebration for... that every Shabbos, when a person... Today there's an expansion, consider, once there was, for example, every day a person procured a bread for the day. To have an extra bread is a great luxury. At every meal you should have an extra bread. It's a question, seudah shlishis you should have for Sunday. Lechem mishneh isn't pshat that it remained for Sunday, lechem mishneh went out on Shabbos. But there's no other way how to celebrate. We can't celebrate, because someone could say, because one brings home two breads on Friday... But we want to celebrate, that means that one does another extra thing, besides the bread that one eats, one does something else to celebrate the lechem mishneh of the manna.

Speaker 1: I would certainly think that the meaning is that it's not just pshat that it's zecher laman. The pshat is, we use the zecher laman to show that Shabbos is like it's a more beautiful day, one had more, one has two breads. Perhaps, I would have thought that one must eat both breads at the meal, because not is very fancy. Let's think, we want to say not that we eat lechem mishneh zecher laman. The Almighty gave lechem mishneh erev Shabbos in the desert so that the Jews should have lechem mishneh, so that the Jews should have in abundance, the Jews should have for Shabbos. I just want to bring out, on Shabbos comes more blessing, you see from the manna, on Shabbos comes more blessing than a whole week. Friday, Shabbos, is the same thing. We just show a more beautiful thing, we make two breads, not just one.

In other words, once, everyone, a wealthy person ate... The Arizal says that one should put twelve breads by the door. What means twelve breads?

Speaker 2: No, I'm telling you the reason.

Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I'm saying on the twelve, I'm saying there who that is gold and tamar.

Speaker 2: No, the simple pshat is, he's not talking about the rabbis, he puts a bread for a segulah merely. One speaks that this has greater...

Speaker 1: Very good. One puts twelve, as a remembrance, corresponding to the lechem hapanim. But that's like the Rambam made seven corresponding to the generations. It's a matter that one wants to make a hint with the number. But apparently, that's the pshat. Look, it also comes after the stone that one should make the beracha on the best bread, on a good bread, on a kikar shlema, yes? He says, one can't go be stingy that one should honor the rabbis, two for the mitzva. One makes another important bread.

Speaker 2: Ah, very good. It comes into the discussion. It's the wheels on the bread. It's a help of the mitzva when hamuvchar and the betzi'a. It's very fancy that it's spoken about getting a person by the shoulder, and puts up fifty breads on the table.

Speaker 1: I know what to there how one puts the bread. Everyone had to have two. Do I need here a rib of fifty thousand lechem. What's missing should I make hold this? The Rav says indeed I we are hold both up.

Speaker 2: Yes. What what do in a way that... But just so the month it from the lechem mishneh?

Speaker 1: I go? I say there that it's not missing out.

Speaker 2: Yes, true, true. That's also a thing that we do what doesn't miss out. By Kiddush Levana we say tipol alei mesar pachen welfare shalom aleichem. There are people who search until the other corner laid to travel someone whom to say. But if one knows from the reason, is that because one has said tipol alei mesar pachen that one should be sheltered. One says, one doesn't mean you shalom aleichem like the four people around. But people don't operate so. Once in a halacha, one just grabs two rolls.

Speaker 1: No, it indeed doesn't miss out. Because the matter of lechem mishneh is to show that there's abundance there's abundance. And the danger that the third Jew is the mitzva min hamuvchar be, that it should indeed be beautiful rolls, not leftover things the third Jew is rolls. But that's not the point. One does the mitzva as it says. Further.

Halacha 3 — Distribution of Slices: Placing Before Them, Not in the Hand

Chunk 4 Translation

Speaker 1: Okay, another giver. A piece, a giver first. Now, let's go to another thing. Yes, we give slices. The one who cuts, the baal habayis (host), stands as the gadol shebakulam (greatest among them), he is the motzi (one who makes the blessing). He gives to each one, he places before each one a piece, v'eino nosein b'yado (and he does not give into his hand). He doesn't give into the hand. V'im nosein b'yado (and if he gives into his hand), he does give into the hand, but only one, when does one actually give into his hands? It's for a mourner. V'im nosein b'yado, harei zeh avel (and if he gives into his hand, this is a mourner).

There are those who say it's a hint to what it says "prusa k'tzion b'yado," but I think the simple pshat (explanation) is that it's not nice, it's like an oni v'evyon (poor and destitute person), one begs with the hands. For a mourner it's okay, okay, one feels with him more like he's a misken (unfortunate one), he's a needy person. But essentially it's not a nice thing, it's not kavod (honor). It says that for a mourner, on the contrary, not because the Mishnah Berurah says that for a mourner one does this, one shouldn't do it for a second person, they'll think he's a mourner, but for other people it's not appropriate, it's not kavod. The botzei'a (one who breaks bread) is the gadol shebakulam, he doesn't need to bend down to him so much. It's not just about that, I'm saying it's not nice to give a person into the hands, it makes him feel like he's the taker. If he's a needy person, yes. Not a needy person, if he's a needy person, but a regular person, he's eating bread from the meal, one doesn't need to feed him, one doesn't need to give him like a poor person, placing it in his hand.

So this is the halacha. But there is the kavod of the baal habayis, that he doesn't need to actually...

Speaker 2: No, he says yes, nosein lifneihem k'derech shemechalkim (he gives before them in the manner of distribution).

Speaker 1: Okay, how it works exactly with the baal habayis, I don't know. One doesn't come to him to take, but he also doesn't need to actually...

Halacha 3 (continued) — Order of Eating: The Botzei'a Eats First

Speaker 1: Okay, v'habotzei'a posheit yado techila v'ochel (and the one who breaks bread extends his hand first and eats). The botzei'a who made the blessing, he begins and he eats first.

Okay, he eats first, and afterwards he begins distributing the food to the others.

Speaker 2: No, he gives, and afterwards he begins eating, or he eats and afterwards distributes to the others?

Speaker 1: I'll tell you an idea, look. V'ein hamesubin rashayin lit'om ad sheyit'am hamvarech (and those reclining are not permitted to taste until the one who blessed tastes). It says that he distributes first to everyone, but they may not eat until he tastes.

Speaker 2: No, it looks like he eats first, then he distributes.

Speaker 1: Read, read the whole halacha. V'ein hamesubin rashayin lit'om ad sheyochal hu min hapas rubo shel mesubin (and those reclining are not permitted to taste until he eats from the bread, most of those reclining). You see that he's still in the middle of saying the blessing, and he must wait for them to say amen. It must be that he tastes immediately, then he distributes to everyone. That's how it looks.

Halacha 3 (continued) — Honoring One's Rabbi

Speaker 1: V'amru, habotzei'a yochal lechalek kavod l'rabo, ela im ken hu gadol mimenu b'chochma (and they said, the one who breaks bread may eat to give honor to his rabbi, unless he is greater than him in wisdom). If the baal teshuvah wants to do differently and he wants to give kavod to his rabbi, he is not gadol mimenu b'chochma (greater than him in wisdom). How proper to extend his hand before him, and he wants to honor the person whom he should honor, he is permitted. It's not a deficiency. I see here he brings that it's not clear, there are those who say that the pshat in the Rambam is... but in short, it's not so smooth.

Hilchos De'os Chapter 5 – Laws of Derech Eretz at a Meal (continued)

Halacha: The Botzei'a May Honor His Rabbi or One Greater Than Him in Wisdom

That's how it looks here.

Okay. "V'im ratza habotzei'a l'hachalik kavod l'rabo o l'mi shegadol mimenu b'chochma, v'ratza sheyoshit yado kodem lo, hareshus b'yado" (And if the one who breaks bread wishes to give honor to his rabbi or to one who is greater than him in wisdom, and wishes that he extend his hand before him, he has permission). If the botzei'a wants to do differently and he wants to give kavod to his rabbi o l'mi shegadol mimenu b'chochma, and he wants to honor the person whom one should honor, that he should eat first, hareshus b'yado (he has permission). Here there's no... I see here that he brings that it's not clear.

There are those who say that the pshat in the Rambam is that the Rambam actually means to say that he distributes and afterwards he begins to eat, and the other argues that it's a hefsek (interruption) and one should eat first and then distribute. There isn't in this... I also saw about this... yes yes, one finds this for me. I also saw about this different customs among people, when a person cuts the challah, whether he makes a blessing first himself, that is, whether he eats his piece first, or he waits first to distribute to everyone.

I tend to do as the pshat of the Rambam says, k'pshuto (as its simple meaning) of the Rambam, and first one gives out to everyone and afterwards one eats. It doesn't make sense because one is gomer (finishing), because I don't want to be mafsik (interrupt). I'm hungry. That's my sevara (reasoning), that's a new sevara.

Halacha: Two Wait for Each Other at a Bowl

Okay, very good. The Rambam says further, another law at a meal: "Shnayim mamtinim zeh lazeh b'ke'ara" (Two wait for each other at a bowl). It says, if food is brought, yes, there is food, and one has already brought his plate, he may not begin to eat until the other person's portion has been brought, because the other will sit there hungry. "Aval shlosha ein mamtinin" (But three do not wait). But three people wait, and one's has already come, he doesn't need to wait, because it takes longer. The two don't need to wait for the third.

So, about a plate is that one eats from one bowl, that's how I understand. And if one... both eat together. So, if one stops eating for a moment, one waits for him, because I shouldn't grab everything, I shouldn't... it shouldn't turn out to be inappropriate. With three, as you say, three is already a whole... each one doesn't need... one accounts for each one. That's how I understand.

Halacha: If Two of Them Finished – The Third Stops With Them

"Gamru mehem shnayim le'echol" (If two of them finished eating) – say what you're saying, it's also a matter of derech eretz, it makes sense. A person sits at a meal with another, yes, he waits for the other to receive. But this is a whole big chiddush (novelty) for everyone, he'll wait for everyone, he can't finish.

"Gamru mehem shnayim" (Two of them finished) – two people have already finished eating, "shlishi mafsik imahem" (the third stops with them) – the third shouldn't cry that they've already finished and he's still eating. Yes. "Aval im gamru achilatam mehem shnayim, ein mafsikin lahem, ela ochlim v'ochlim ad sheyigmeru" (But if two of them finished their eating, they don't stop for them, but they eat and eat until they finish). It's not such a simple thing. For example, every Friday night Shabbos meals I think about when to begin zemiros (songs). It means like a bit of pressuring the people to wait to eat. So l'chora (apparently) I would have needed to look, it doesn't say what is the majority of people, but in any case the majority of people must at least have finished. So, nu, that's Shabbos meals, for for for...

Halacha: One Doesn't Speak During a Meal – So As Not to Come to Danger

Okay. The Rambam says further, "Ein masichin b'seuda" (One doesn't speak during a meal). One doesn't talk in the middle of eating, "kedei shelo yavo lidei sakana" (so as not to come to danger). That is, it's another law in derech eretz, but this is a law of "shelo yavo lidei sakana." The Gemara says because the drink can go into the lungs. Yes, let's say, that one can choke, let's be real, the danger isn't such a huge danger, it's also actually a matter of mentchlichkeit (decency). How many times can one choke when one eats in the middle? It can happen.

So it's actually that for example the halacha is actually also only relevant when one sits at a nice table. If a person just drinks a large cup of wine and he stands and talks with a friend, he also needs to pay attention, because the "shelo yavo lidei sakana" is the same thing. If he's machmir (stringent) in hilchos sakana (laws of danger)... There's still derech eretz that's relevant also for a person himself, but it's not hilchos pikuach nefesh (laws of saving life), it's separate from the normal order of the meal. The Rambam doesn't say that one should fulfill the mitzvah of "v'nishmartem" (and you shall guard yourselves).

Discussion: What Does "Ein Masichin B'seuda" Mean?

Also what it says "ein masichin b'seuda" doesn't mean that one may not speak an entire meal. This means b'sha'as achila (during eating), b'sha'as (when) one is bole'a (swallowing).

V'al zeh, v'al zeh, v'al zeh (and about this, and about this, and about this) the Sages said, "v'al zeh amru she'ein tzrichin hamazon" (and about this they said that they don't need the food). We've already learned the halacha that for blessings, one makes a blessing and everyone answers amen. But when people are in the middle of drinking, the people should give themselves a rest. One brings wine b'soch hamazon (during the meal), one brings wine b'soch hamazon. One is in the middle of eating and a bottle of wine comes in, is that a seder (order)?

Oh, "if b'sha'as habli'a (during swallowing)" means in the middle of eating? Yes, yes, yes. It's good that you have a seder. We've learned. Ah, yes, yasher koach (well done). Panim, mazon. Yes, yes, yasher koach. Then one shouldn't have one make the blessing on the wine, because the person will try to answer amen because he's still in the middle of swallowing food, and that's the danger. How do you want such a danger?

Halacha: One Doesn't Look at the Face of an Eater

Another thing, the halacha: "Ein mistaklin b'fnei ochel" (One doesn't look at the face of an eater). One doesn't look at the person when he's in the middle of eating, because perhaps he doesn't eat so nicely. People are uncomfortable when one looks at them while eating, or one looks at his plate. One doesn't look at another's plate. That's simple. It's not derech eretz.

Discussion: The Rebbes Who Eat Publicly at Tischen

Understand? Because the rebbes who sit publicly and eat, one must ask whether one may look at their plate. They're washed out. Okay, the rebbes are washed out before the whole world. No, he doesn't look at the people, the people look at him. Yes. But have they perhaps come upon such a thing? Yes. Nu, nu. I know it's very uncomfortable. For the rebbes it's uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable for most people. No, to sit publicly and eat like that.

The people need to... I hold that the people who stand at the tisch (table) also need to conduct themselves well with derech eretz and not look at the rebbe when he eats. He may eat. He eats publicly his normal thing. Let everyone eat quietly. But they don't just look at him.

But the rebbes, the previous rebbes, eating is for the tisch, and at the tisch eating is only the things that are appropriate. That's also, but no difference. You understand that a person is uncomfortable, don't look him in the face. It's not a way.

There's a big discussion in Chassidic sefarim (books), one doesn't know whether one can be later when he says the Torah. He says the Torah, okay? The person who looks at the rebbe how he eats, he doesn't hear his Torah as seriously as the eating. The Torah is hard to understand.

Halacha: A Servant Standing Before Them and They're Reclining – He Doesn't Eat With Them

As the Rambam says, "Shamash omed lifneihem u'mesubin, eino ochel imahem" (A servant standing before them and they're reclining, he doesn't eat with them). That is, everyone should know his place, the categories. Today there isn't baruch Hashem (thank God) the role of a shamash (servant). If someone is a gabbai (attendant) of a rebbe, the pshat is that he honors a rebbe, he doesn't have the law of a shamash. "Shamash omed lifneihem u'mesubin" is like a kind of eved (slave). "Eino ochel imahem" (He doesn't eat with them).

Meaning to say, because he's a waiter he's not praised to forget. It means to say, they say it doesn't belong to him, it's not his food, he has no right. It's a halachic thing.

Parable from a Distinguished Mashpia: How Much May a Guest Eat?

A distinguished mashpia (spiritual mentor) said a good word. He said, a guest usually may eat as much as he wants. Now there's a question, how much may a guest eat? As much as he wants. As much as he wants. He says, there's a halacha in ochel (eating), there's a halacha in ochel. He says, I'll tell you how one learns the halacha. There are people, singers, or music people who make music the whole wedding, they understand that they need to receive the meal. Nu, what is there to think? The person receives six thousand dollars, he needs to also receive the hundred dollars for the meal? No. Why? The person who works in the coat room there outside doesn't eat the meal. Nu, nu, one eats because it's a custom, and usually a baal simcha (host of celebration) doesn't care, and in a place of poverty is in a place of wealth, but no, the halacha of "ein ochel" is certainly a historical halacha. This was accepted then that the shamash doesn't eat.

Through Mercy: He Puts Into His Mouth From Every Dish

If you see not, you see clarifying the shamash, b'derech rachamim (through mercy), "yalitenu l'soch piv mikol tavshil v'tavshil kedei l'yashev da'ato" (he puts into his mouth from every dish in order to settle his mind). One puts into his mouth small pieces. It doesn't mean literally so, one gives him on the plate, one gives him something to eat, kedei l'yashev da'ato (in order to settle his mind).

As we've seen, it's not nice, it's disgusting, but we see the words we see in the beginning of Maseches Pesachim, where the Gemara says that the shamash goes down to drink wine because he holds a piece of bread in his cheek, because one is going to put it l'soch piv (into his mouth). He doesn't have a proper plate with a proper table, he doesn't sit, he's the one who eats standing. So he goes to seek wine, he puts down his bread on the barrel on top, because he stands there and he needs to check.

Connection to Levi Yair: He Makes a Blessing on Every Cup

As we've seen in Levi Yair, "mevarech al kol kos v'kos shenosnim lo" (he makes a blessing on every cup that they give him), when he would have been a guest who he knows that he wants to drink more so much and so much, the first bracha hagefen (blessing on wine) exempts. But by him it turns entirely into mercy, he seeks the mercy, because he can't count on the baal habayis how much he'll give him, because each time it's like a new "mevarech al kol kos v'kos shenosnim lo, nosen lo shtiya yeteira shelo birtzon elo birtzon" (he makes a blessing on every cup they give him, they give him extra drinking not by his will but by his will).

Foundation: Derech Rachamim Is No Less Important Than a Complete Obligation

Until here we've learned the order that there is to give, learn more things from... from what? Do you already know? From derech eretz, from nekiyus (cleanliness), what this is derech rachamim. The Rambam means to say, l'chora, the Rambam says when people are in poverty, and this would have been that it would have cost money. He doesn't say it's a mitzvah. It must be a mitzvah at least like "lo tachsom shor b'disho" (you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads). That one won't die of hunger, he has a meal at home not. But the pshat actually doesn't go. "Lo tachsom shor b'disho" the pshat is that the ox becomes very hungry when it treads the grain. Let it eat. This actually means derech rachamim. It's not a complete obligation, it's derech rachamim. Yes, because it's accepted, he has perhaps, even in the kitchen he can eat without this.

But the answer is that the shamash has l'chora something of a "payment arrangement" with the baal habayis. He needs to pay him weekly. But derech rachamim is that he shouldn't have any distress with him. Even if he pays him "anyway," but with the ox you never pay.

Also, one must also remember an important foundation. When it says in the Rambam derech eretz or derech rachamim, it doesn't mean that because of this one doesn't need to do it. One must perhaps do it even more than one must do things where it says a complete obligation. You must do it as a ben adam (human being), as a grandchild of Adam, not only as a grandchild of Avraham. Oy, this is a great obligation, the derech rachamim. And if you don't do it, you're an achzari (cruel person). Certainly according to the matter, as you say, sometimes it doesn't look so. But this isn't a gezeiras hakasuv (Divine decree), one doesn't have to do it exactly in this manner.

Digression: Why Doesn't One Make a Blessing on Tzedaka?

I just saw the question about... There are certain mitzvos on which one doesn't make a blessing. I saw that there is, I don't remember which of the Rishonim, that the mitzvos that also the nations of the world do, one doesn't make a blessing on them. Therefore one shouldn't make on the mitzvah of tzedaka (charity). Rav Wozner asks in Shevet HaLevi, just the opposite, the mitzvos that also the nations of the world do, should show us our greater level of kedusha (holiness), that we do it only for the Ribbono Shel Olam's (Master of the Universe's) kavod, we don't do it because of the disgusting bnei adam (human beings).

But the Shevet HaLevi, and l'chora this isn't the matter. The matter is "asher kidshanu b'mitzvosav" (who sanctified us with His commandments), we thank the Ribbono Shel Olam for the extra mitzvos. The mitzvos that all people have, we do because we are also grandchildren of Adam, for us we are grandchildren of Moshe Rabbeinu, Avraham Yitzchak and Yaakov. Yes. I make, on the extra place. The Rachmana litzlan (Heaven forbid) pshat is that it's still basics, and the obligations are even greater, le'olam yehei adam (a person should always be). Yes, I don't know who says this Torah, but you see that he actually held the opposite, he didn't even know what one does. Okay.

Halacha: If One of Those Reclining Left to Urinate

Meir, perhaps I'm not such a... Yes. Okay, let's see so. Yatza yachid min hamesubin l'hashtin mayim (If one of those reclining left to urinate), he didn't go to the bathroom there at his place, he doesn't need to wash at his place.

Hilchos Brachos / Hilchos De'os – Netilas Yadayim, Honor of Foods, and Conduct of Guests

Netilas Yadayim Upon Returning to the Table

Speaker 1: Yes, I don't make an account, I still have an extra place. Therefore, I mean that the pshat is that it's still basics and the obligations are even greater, le'olam yehei adam. Yes, I don't know who says this Torah, but he actually held the opposite, that why not what one does. Okay, we perhaps not such a... Yes.

Laws of De'os / Laws of Blessings – Laws of the Meal: Sensitivity for the Host, Salt at Hamotzi, and Mayim Acharonim

Okay, let's take it like this: "Yatza le'echol v'lo matza mayim" – he didn't go wash his four amos, he doesn't need to wash both hands. Why? Because apparently he only touched something with one hand, so where is there dirty water? But water is always lenient, that you don't wash such dirty things. Yes, "devarim chaverim v'hiflieg" – if he went out for a long walk and wandered around, then it's a question, because yadav askaniyos hen, he certainly touched things.

Speaker 2: And if they were mesubin for drinking?

Speaker 1: Then the mesibah wasn't for eating where you need to wash your hands, it's only for drinking, there's no obligation to do that at home.

I think the language "devarim chaverim v'hiflieg" is an interesting language. He means to say that it's over a long time. But I think he also means to say – the Rema taught us yesterday that if you're not mesi'ach da'as you don't need to wash again. But "devarim chaverim," the simple meaning is that he certainly became distracted, he went for a walk, he forgot, he comes back. So "devarim chaverim" means that he certainly talked, like at a wedding.

Practical Application – Weddings

It turns out, this happens a lot, you need to know this halachah. People go to a wedding, I don't know, maybe they dance during the seudah. People go out and in, I don't know, they talk. No, I say dancing, if something is even more. If there's ever yadav askaniyos hen, when the hands become sweaty and dirty from the other people. But you've touched a thousand people.

If there's an uncleanliness that you shouldn't touch your food with... If there's a cleanliness of not touching wet food, as we learned yesterday, it's certainly about your hands touching. Your hands have the most bacteria, and if you've danced with a thousand people, even though they're holy Yisrael kedoshim and it's a great merit, but you may be obligated to wash before you go eat. I would say that then is the main mitzvah, because then yadav askaniyos hen is even more than "devarim chaverim."

Speaker 2: I don't know, I think the covered places, I don't know if sweat from a person's hand means at all that it's dirty. I don't know, how can it be? I'm not saying it's maybe medicine. It could be that it's just missing a good thing, but...

Netilas Yadayim for Drinking

Speaker 1: Yes, when one is mesubin for drinking, when people sit for a drink-table, the point is that then there's no problem with a drink-table, drink seudah, yes, drink seudah.

"Nichnas v'yoshev bimkomo v'notel yado" – as we said, nichnas, he goes in, not that he washes his hands before he goes in. He comes back, he went out, he comes, sits back down v'notel yado, and afterwards he says borei nefashos. Why? And they don't say the reason, and they don't say the reason, it must be bimkomo, sham yitol yado, mishum sham mechilah.

That means, one isn't obligated, when a person comes in to a meal of bread, everyone knows he washed, he's a Jew, a Jew washes before he eats bread. But here, the one who comes in from outside, he comes with dirty hands, he needs to wash his hands, he comes with a...

Speaker 2: But mesubin for drinking means a drink with beverages.

Speaker 1: No, no, no, simply, it's not human, to sit at a meal with people who haven't washed their hands. Right?

Speaker 2: Even if he doesn't touch food, he only drinks beverages?

Speaker 1: Yes. Interesting.

Speaker 2: I didn't know that you also need netilas yadayim for drinking.

Speaker 1: Now you know. You don't need to, you don't need to, you take a cup of water and you drink. There are indeed those who say you need to, the Rambam actually holds that you need to, but I think it's one of humanity, it's derech eretz. You come in, from here you learn an important thing, that the topic of netilas yadayim, there are indeed halachos of netilas yadayim, which this is also netilas yadayim. You come into a meal, in every hall it says that people should wash their hands before they go touch the food. It's a normal thing, you come from outside, who knows where you've been, wash your hands. And even for drinking you also need to have netilas yadayim. It's interesting.

Speaker 2: Because you don't need to, if you had to it would be devarim chavivah, or also apparently to burden with water.

Speaker 1: Both, yes. But we're also talking about the manner where there are servers standing there with little bowls of water. It's a crazy thing when he now has to drag with him a... Nowadays you have a sink, it's not a problem. No, not always is there a sink in front of the people. It seems like he needs to demonstrate with the water that he's not dirty. But we're actually talking about the system, which is correct. True, this is talking about someone standing with a glass of water. We're talking here about kavod ha'ochlim, how to honor the food.

Kavod Ha'ochlin

Says the Rambam, "Ein manihin basar chai al hapat" – don't put raw meat on bread. "V'ein ma'avirin kos al hapat" – you don't pass a cup over the bread, that's the meaning. "V'ein ma'avirin tzlochis al hapat" – don't use the bread also to lean the plate or something.

What is all this? Simply they're not nice things, you become disgusted, you're about to eat.

Speaker 2: That's the point, yes. Bread is, as the Gemara says that you need to honor a tree because a tree gives life to a person, as it says there.

Speaker 1: Yes, but I'm saying, that's the point. People live on bread, you need to honor it. Why is a Holocaust survivor, when he saw how people throw away food, did he have a spiritual shock from it? Because he remembered how that piece of bread gave a person life.

We are very spoiled today, people throw away a lot, because they produce... It could be the halachos have actually changed a bit, because what can you do? You can't stop. The companies produce today so much more food than people actually need to have, and the calculation is from the start that you make a wedding and you know that double what you eat goes in the garbage. But you can't stop. But there's such a concept of honor for the food that people live on.

Throwing Food

"V'ein zorkin es hapat" – you don't throw bread.

Speaker 2: What do you say that Rebbes have a custom to throw apples?

Speaker 1: Bread you don't throw. Soon we'll see what you may throw. "V'lo es hachatichot" – you also don't throw pieces of food.

Speaker 2: Or chatichot means pieces of bread?

Speaker 1: Do you think chatichot means pieces of meat usually?

Speaker 2: No, like chatichah...

Speaker 1: Usually chatichah in Chazal, when it says the word chatichah it means meat.

Speaker 2: If he's a chaver, yes, okay.

Speaker 1: That's what I think, yes.

But v'lo ochlin she'einam klufin – you don't peel food that has no shells, like soft fruit. Tosafos says, with one you also may not throw, this is not that, because it becomes disgusting.

Bal Tashchis

Very good. We always say the word bal tashchis. The Rambam brings bal tashchis simply on ochlin. Bal tashchis is only on trees, bal tashchis is trees. No, here you see that this is a concept from the Rabbanan. It's not to make the table, it becomes dirty, the food should be dirty.

Speaker 2: Yes, what's wrong with that?

Speaker 1: More and more, there's a simple meaning of not destroying good things. There's such a concept there, but here it doesn't say. In the Gemara it says the derasha, bal tashchis. I looked up something else. But here it doesn't say, here it says that it's more a concept of... it will become disgusting.

Yes, further.

Wine at Weddings

But what may you do? "U'mutar l'hamshich yayin b'tzinorot b'vatei chatanim" – there were places where there was a custom that they poured wine. They didn't just bring how much wine you need to drink, they also sprayed wine and...

Speaker 2: Yes, it's a concept, and later they drank it.

Speaker 1: They brought water with a pipe, later they drank it. They drank it later, they poured it in like that.

Says the Rambam, you may not be moshech with pipes, because it's not humanity. You'll see. Because it becomes a bit disgusting. But you drink it.

Speaker 2: That's what it says here? Maybe everyone drinks from the same pipe?

Speaker 1: No, always, you drink from the same bottle or from the same, I don't know what. You catch it later in a vessel, I don't know. It's a concept, it makes a show of the food, it's not the normal way, but it's not that you pour it out in the ground. But you may, because this makes simchah, it's a certain boundary.

You don't throw klipot and nuts, because they're harder, it's not like the grapes that are peeled. But only the throwing, also only mishum zerikah of simchah, not today. You think it's dirty, it's muddy in the ground, and they run with the vests, it becomes dirty.

Not Washing Hands with Wine

Another thing you don't do, you don't wash your hands with wine. "V'ein notlin yedeihem b'yayin bein chai bein mazug." Why not? Further, because wine is wine, it's not for washing hands. "V'chol hame'abdan eino ela over b'lo ta'aseh." Also for example derech buz, as you see, the Rambam says that it's yes in this shame, not as I said.

Ah, maybe he means to say l'hafik when it's an honor for the person. Just to waste money, to show off, is not human, but for example when there's kavod and the like, then we'll yes.

Discussion: Shame for the Person or for the Food?

Okay. Now we're going to learn halachos. Is it a shame for the person or for the food?

Speaker 2: It's a shame for the person. The food doesn't feel.

Speaker 1: I think it's a shame for the person, that he doesn't honor something that deserves honor. Food is something that's serious, and a person is serious. The whole difference between a person and an animal, or one of the differences is that a person eats with a fork, okay?

Speaker 2: Okay, I know with a spoon.

Speaker 1: A person needs to be a bit, that means cleanliness, that means "v'hiskadishtem v'heyisem kedoshim." I think that's one of the meanings, right? There should be a certain etiquette, a certain, you don't play, you don't get dirty, not a pig.

Speaker 2: What's wrong with being a pig?

Speaker 1: What's wrong with being a pig? A pig has its nature engraved, it rolls in the mud. Is someone who goes naked such a worse prohibition than if he should have gross audacity? But here we're not talking about that level. You need the idea, you need to, this is a part of humanity to do all these things. That means derech eretz, "derech eretz kadmah l'Torah" etc. Also on this it says.

Conduct with Guests – Not Embarrassing the Host

Okay. Now we're going into matters of how to conduct yourself with guests. Interesting things, halachos about how to make sure not to embarrass anyone, they don't have enough, etc.

"Asur l'orchim litol klum mi'shelifneihem" – guests sit at the meal at the host's, and he thinks, he wants to take a piece of the food that was given to him, and give it to someone, maybe a sweet little boy there, the son of the host, to give it to him. Forbidden. Don't do it. "Shema yevosh ba'al haseudah" – because maybe it will embarrass the host. "Shelo hayah lo mah sheyavi lefanav" – because you don't know the situation of the host. It could be that he doesn't have such great abundance, and the food that he prepared for you is because he wants to honor you, and now if you give away from it a bit, he won't have enough to give you more.

Speaker 2: That's the word?

Speaker 1: Yes. It will be a shame, the table will remain empty. The table will be empty. This is a situation, what is this situation. The point is, you need afterwards... If they learned well the Rambam in Hilchos Teshuvah, he spoke about benefiting from a chassid she'eino maspik l'va'al habayis.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: A smart Jew would never find himself in such a situation.

Speaker 2: I didn't say that this is a chassid she'eino maspik, he's maspik, but not enough that the children should also take.

Speaker 1: No, that's the problem. Do you know what means a chassid she'eino maspik l'va'al habayis? A smart Jew wouldn't find himself in such a situation.

Speaker 2: I don't agree with you. The last situation is that the father has to live with the problem.

Laws of De'os / Laws of Blessings – Laws of the Meal: Sensitivity for the Host, Salt at Hamotzi, and Mayim Acharonim

The Guest Should Not Embarrass the Host – Continuation: The Barrel of Wine with Oil

Speaker 1: The table will be empty. This is talking about a situation, this is the twist. The point is, even more than that, because if we would learn well the Rambam in I think Hilchos Teshuvah, he spoke about benefiting from a chassid she'eino maspik lo al levado. So a smart Jew would never find himself in such a situation.

Sometimes the last with the situation that the father has to put back the... There isn't enough also for the guests, also for the children. But you have to imagine a situation as it makes a normal case in the world that we're turning in. You can hear such things. A Jew makes a sheva brachos at your home. A wealthy person, I'm not talking about a poor person, okay? He doesn't have, he doesn't have to buy. A chassid she'eino maspik is he doesn't have, he doesn't even have to go to the store.

I make a sheva brachos at my home, I buy myself twenty pieces of nice desserts, each one costs a dollar fifty. I don't buy extra, I don't have extra. I calculated there will come twenty people, and I'll give them all dessert. Someone stands, and he sees some boy, and he gives it to him. You get it? Now I don't have to give for the guests. Not because I can't have, I can die of hunger, not because I'm a poor person. It's a bit... This is a case where I need to fulfill the halachah. Look at him. Doesn't it say so?

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: It's asked. Even if he takes his, there isn't. There isn't more to bring for you.

Ice cream, many times at simchas there's no ice cream. Why? It's not so important, you don't buy so much. Okay, but that's a thing.

The Rambam's Example: "A Person Should Not Send to His Friend a Barrel of Wine with Oil Floating on Top"

Speaker 1: Okay, another interesting example something, very crazy.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: "Lo yishlach adam l'chaveiro chavis yayin v'shemen tzaf al piv." You shouldn't sell a barrel of wine. Sell you may, but he's talking about sending. "Lo yishlach adam l'chaveiro chavis yayin v'shemen tzaf al piv." A person sends a gift, a big... I'll tell you how it's practiced nowadays. I don't know if it's practiced, because maybe people have more sense. You buy a big basket, from the bottom is styrofoam, and from the top stands a bit of fruit, I don't know what.

He says don't do such a thing. Why? Because the other one will invite guests, he thinks he has a big basket, until meanwhile he opens it it's empty. The example here is shemen tzaf al piv. Oil lies on top of that, oil floats up, so you can make such a trick, and from it will rise the oil, oil you can give for thousands of foods.

Speaker 2: Yes, one is another thing, he wants to make a meal for oil, I don't know what, he wants to have both, at least it should be.

Speaker 1: Whatever, he couldn't calculate, he says that my guest will be embarrassed. "V'chen kol kayotze bazeh, devarim elu nimseru l'vushah shel ba'al haseudah, sovrim."

The Rema answered on this v'chen kol kayotze bazeh, because he felt a bit uncomfortable, what are two such unique interesting cases, probably in the Gemara there's some story that was embarrassing.

Digression: The First Halachah and the Children

Speaker 1: For example, the first halachah made me uncomfortable, because if I would have written the halachah I would have said, a person shouldn't make a meal if he doesn't have enough for the little children who will stand there poor things, and their mouths will run and spray from desire that the father gets the dessert. That bothered me more than the guest, it doesn't suit him for his nice guest.

Laws of Blessings Chapter 7 – Order of Hand Washing, Incense and Spices, and Cup of Blessing

Most People Are Not Thick-Skinned

Most people are not thick-skinned, most people are not thick-skinned. Most people, because he is small, he has no bully, he can't fight back, okay, now the Torah says, I'm going to give a voice for the boy. I'm saying about this, the Rema concludes that you shouldn't use such a thing, because it can bring shame and embarrassment. I'm with you, I mean I hear what you're saying, it's a great beautiful thing what you're saying, but the reality is that people care more if the father should have than the children.

What can one do? I was at a Chanukah party, one child already struggled, they also didn't give at the kiddush there for the children, I don't know what. I don't know the discussions of people who send away the children because it's not appropriate. It's not appropriate, go away, I'm sending you away, I don't need you. I'm with you, he needs to be good. I'm just telling you that the reality is many people, I don't know what one does, and exactly what the problem here will be.

The General Point: Sensitivity from Both Sides

Speaker 1: But in general, what he says here is, the Rambam already told him how much the host needs to be considerate of the guests, he should give to the servant, he should give, he should pay for each one separately. Now he says, the guests should also be sensitive. He brings you two examples from the Gemara, and he tells you that there's much more about it, and you use your own head how to be comfortable.

And I look around, the examples help, because it makes you understanding of heart, it's similar to "and so all similar cases." He doesn't say the examples for nothing, because it says so in the Gemara, but he gives you an example, now you grasp one, ah, indeed it's not for nothing what I did then, such a thing. It's not terrible, not that one will die of hunger, not at all, but it's a bit of shame, one may not embarrass a Jew. And every single person, even the greatest, every single person is limited how much he has, how much he can have, it's not a bottomless pit.

Now we're going to learn how one finishes eating, yes?

Salt at Hamotzi – The Rema's Custom and Its Definition

Discussion: Haven't We Already Learned About Salt?

Speaker 1: Now we're going to learn, we've finished eating. So, haven't we already learned about salt? About dipping in salt when one begins?

Speaker 2: No, you said that we're going to learn, we haven't learned. It was said earlier that we only bring, that one already begins to eat before we bring the salt and bread, that there's no concern for interruption. That's what was said about salt.

Speaker 1: Ah, that's interesting. Yes, that's what I meant. Because there it was already stated that if he's going to dip his bread with salt or in bread, one should bring it beforehand, one shouldn't wait. He shouldn't say Hamotzi and afterwards wait for them to bring the salt.

The Rema's Custom: Salt on the Table as a Remembrance of the Altar

Speaker 2: According to the Rema, haven't we said that it's a mitzvah to always put salt? Which mitzvah is that, can you tell me?

Speaker 1: The Rema says that one should always put the salt, to hint at the fact that the sacrifices, based on the Gemara which says that in ancient times we had an altar, today we have the table of a person. What does that mean? What the person gives charity for guests, the table of a person atones. Therefore one should have salt to remember this.

Discussion: When Is the Matter of Salt Relevant?

Speaker 2: It's a matter, because even according to the Rema it's also apparently only the matter when one sits at a proper Shabbat meal, there are guests, one should put salt. But it doesn't mean that a person finds himself that he must take along a little bit of salt when he buys a sandwich. Apparently even according to the Rema not. Not only that, it says that the table of a person atones doesn't mean what he eats with salt, rather it means the table of a person atones means what he takes guests.

Speaker 1: Certainly. You can say that every Shabbat meal, because the proper Shabbat meal is with guests. In honor of Shabbat is a distinction. In honor of Shabbat, no? The meal, that's also a matter to make a meal in honor of Shabbat. But the table of a person atones can also mean the meal with the children. The children are your guests, yes. I agree with you.

Today One Doesn't Need to Put Salt – The Bread Is Already Salted

Speaker 2: But not only that, it also says in the Acharonim that today one doesn't need to put in salt, because in the bread usually one already puts in salt.

Speaker 1: Ah, the bread is already salted.

Speaker 2: And it also says, only coarse bread, fine bread doesn't need, and this doesn't need is also not in Shulchan Aruch.

And I don't believe there's one bread, I mean except if someone buys "salt free," I don't know, every thing that you buy has salt in it. Almost every single thing that one buys in a store already has salt. So, I don't know, I don't understand. No, not only that, therefore, you must understand, to dip in salt means something. I don't want to get into these things, because it's a practical halachic ruling, there are practical differences.

The Main Matter of Salt: Honoring the Slice of Hamotzi

Speaker 2: But I'll tell you, if you buy a "sourdough" challah for example, or something like that which doesn't come with any salt, doesn't come with any taste, you must see that you add salt, or mustard, I don't know, you add salt, give it a taste. That's what it means to say, that when one takes the slice of Hamotzi one must honor it, one must eat it with the best baked goods, and one should eat it with the full taste. One adds with salt. If you plan to spread butter on the bread, you should already spread also on the first piece that you make Hamotzi on. That's the matter of salt.

Digression: Interruption at Hand Washing and Honor of the Slice

Speaker 2: And exactly the opposite, they say, there are many times places that are concerned that the sink of the hand washing is far, one puts small pieces of bread near the sink, you know the situation, that one should make Hamotzi near the washer of hand washing, and one is strict about the interruption. One is strict about the interruption when hand washing, but afterwards you don't eat your Hamotzi properly, that it should be from the best slices, and Hamotzi one must make on the piece that one put the jam on, on the hand washing that one put the jam on. The same thing salt. Even if it doesn't say in Shulchan Aruch that one should bring salt, that means that one should make before the Hamotzi, one should make a tasty piece. If you're never going to put in salt, I'm just giving an example, then you put it for the sake of the remembrance, because it doesn't say so in Shulchan Aruch.

Discussion: Dipping in Salt in Practice

Speaker 2: So these things are piled up. Sometimes it happens at a Chassidic class, there's salt there, he dips it into something, he says, "Ah, this has salt," he dips it into the dip. Yes, but if you don't plan to eat the dip, if you don't plan to eat the whole bread with the dip, you can also the piece that you make Hamotzi on, let it already be a tasty piece. No, it doesn't have salt, but he wants to fulfill the mitzvah of salt, he says. But the roll itself has salt. Can you dip the roll into itself? No, good.

The Chazon Ish's Position: Intentions Don't Need to Be Literal

Speaker 2: And indeed in the Chazon Ish, not in Shulchan Aruch, it's brought from him, I remember, that there are people who say, but the Arizal says some intention, there's an intention, salt is the gematria of bread, there are three letters, one sweetens the three judgments with the three kindnesses. He says, well, who says that one can't have the same intention on the salt that's already in the bread? That's not a rabbi. Intentions one can also make, but it works that way. Not to be any... One doesn't need to use a sign that goes out, one doesn't need to use a sign, not to be so literal.

Order of Mayim Acharonim – Who Washes First?

Speaker 1: Okay, now we're going to learn how one finishes the meal, okay? One's going to put away the bread, one's going to take away the table. One cleans the table, one takes away the table. Why was it then? You see a Mishnah, yes, and Beit Shammai said the opposite.

Discussion: Why Does One Clear the Table Before Mayim Acharonim?

Speaker 2: Why does one honor before the... after washing? Yes? Before washing? Why does one clear before washing? Because one doesn't want that it should remain...

Speaker 1: Ah, because one is afraid that there's a piece of bread there, and he's going to wash, he's going to wash on bread. It becomes prepared for the bread.

Speaker 2: Yes, it becomes a crumb of water of an olive's bulk, one carries down the water. At least one needs to be concerned. But it can happen a simple ring that has an olive's bulk, at least one needs to clear the house still before... It's not any...

Speaker 1: On the table it happens very many times that there are pieces of challah. And after all, we who prepare ourselves to wash mayim acharonim on the table, perhaps one needs to take down the table before one benches. The same reasons.

The Rambam: The Leader Washes First

Speaker 1: How is the order of mayim acharonim? Whoever blesses Birkat Hamazon, he washes his hands first. The one who blesses Birkat Hamazon, he is the one who... The host leader blesses Birkat Hamazon, he washes the first mayim acharonim. Why? So that the great one should not delay and the small one wait for him. So that the great one shouldn't have to wait for the small one.

The answer is, so that the great one should not delay and say the zimmun until others wash. That means, the great one is the one who benches Birkat Hamazon?

Speaker 2: Ah, and he says that because of this, apparently one would obligate the great one, but it's not appropriate that the great one should stand with soiled hands.

Discussion: What Does "Soiled Hands" Mean?

Speaker 1: Means wet from the water, or soiled hands means dirty before washing?

Speaker 2: Again, as long as he hasn't blessed Birkat Hamazon his hands are soiled.

Laws of Blessings Chapter 7 – Order of Hand Washing, Incense and Spices, and Cup of Blessing

Order of Hand Washing – First Waters and Last Waters

Each Greater Than His Fellow Precedes His Fellow

Speaker 1: He translates, so that the great one should not sit with soiled hands until the last one washes. Isn't it that the great one is the one who benches Birkat Hamotzi?

Speaker 2: No, he says that ideally one would have had to honor the great one, but it's not appropriate that the great one should stand with soiled hands.

Speaker 1: Means wet from the water, or soiled hands means dirty before washing?

Speaker 2: Again, each greater than his fellow precedes his fellow. Ah... I mixed up then. On the contrary, the most important person should bench. Or he doesn't say explicitly who should bench. Ah, that's what he means? A rabbi, wealthy person and students, the rabbi who benches should also be the first to wash first waters, so that he should be the first to clean his hands. It's not a law in Birkat Hamotzi, it's a law in giving the first opportunity of washing to the great one.

Speaker 1: Okay. Let's go further.

And the Rest of the Hands – And the Rest of the Students at the End

Speaker 2: And the rest of the hands, and the rest of the students at the end, one after another, after the host. And we don't honor in this, for we don't honor with soiled hands.

Speaker 1: What is this not honoring? What's the translation? It's not honoring with the washing of hand washing one before the second? One before the other?

Speaker 2: Rather it goes one after another, for we don't honor with soiled hands. When a person has soiled hands, it's not a time to honor the other. First you should clean your dirty hands.

And not in walking the way, on a road, when one goes along the way, it's not the rabbi should go first, everyone goes along the way. And not in their binding, but at the wide entrance and the mezuzah. Only when one goes in through a wide entrance and the mezuzah at the time of entry, then is when the rabbi needs to go in first.

Discussion: Why Don't We Honor with Soiled Hands?

Speaker 1: I thought that it's more something of a matter, here there's no honored place. It's something that one does it for necessary. One has dirty hands, one needs to wash it off. One doesn't do here something a... It's not any beautiful situation. But honor, you give me the first bar in a beautiful study hall, I go in first. Just I stop on the way, on the traffic light, there's no connection to honor, it's not a situation of honor. That's how I understand it.

Speaker 2: Something I'm missing here with the matter of soiled hands. I know there's a dispute in the Gemara, but let's skip it. Okay.

Completion of Hand Washing – Drying the Hands

Speaker 2: Further, completion of hand washing. Okay, one has finished, one has finished, one has dried the hands. Here he says that one must dry the hands. We've already learned this once. We've already learned this! Ah, we've learned this! Before eating, at least, we learned it. Yes.

And... I haven't finished the Raavad. One can't finish. Let's finish, it's already very late. Okay. Already very long. Do you know how much the Raavad speaks to this chapter? There's a length.

Speaker 1: Okay, the Birkat Hamazon. One has washed mayim acharonim, cleaned oneself, and one has benched Birkat Hamazon. Please read for us.

Speaker 2: Yes. I'm going to try again to look into the book, because we don't have much time to go into it.

The Raavad's Question on the Order of Mayim Acharonim

Speaker 2: Okay, to the Raavad. So afterwards there's a new order. One used to, since it's a basin, one used to bring two things, it's called a basin, which one doesn't use anymore. I don't know exactly what that is. It's something that makes a good smell, something like that. That's how it looks.

And what's the order? One makes a blessing, one makes a "who creates species of spices" on this. So the great one who benches Birkat Hamazon, the same one, ah, you see that the great one benched, he previously stood as the leader who blesses.

Ah, so the Raavad had the question, he says that it says that the rabbi gives permission for another to bench. He says another reason why the one who blesses, the person that the rabbi gives him permission to bench, if not the rabbi himself benches, there's another reason why he should wash first mayim acharonim, so that he should have a chance to look into Birkat Hamazon. He's going to be the one who's going to read it aloud, he should quickly look into the book. The rabbi, he knows Birkat Hamazon, it's only a matter of honor that he should be first. But if one gives a second person, it's a good order, because he washes mayim acharonim, and afterwards, because the crowd washes mayim acharonim, he has time to look into Birkat Hamazon.

Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the correction. Okay, every single person, it's not clear how one does with the blessing.

Incense and Spices After the Meal

And They Bring Him Incense

Speaker 2: Okay, now, okay, and they bring him incense. One brings him, we've already spoken about this. One brings him incense, and one makes a blessing on the incense. It's a special blessing that one says "who creates species of spices," and blesses on the wine. If one brings wine at Birkat Hamazon, not at Birkat Hamazon, afterwards?

Speaker 1: No, before.

Speaker 2: Yes yes, that's how it goes. So he brings him, as one says, a cup holding a quarter or more than a quarter, and he brings spices.

Speaker 1: What is this spices? Spices for every single person?

Speaker 2: Birkat Hamazon. In the Zohar it says so, that one takes Birkat Hamazon with havdalah, with spices. Spices is not the same thing as incense. Spices is spices.

Order of Blessings – Wine and Spices

Speaker 2: And one holds the wine in his right hand, and the spices in his left hand, and one benches. Afterwards one makes a blessing on the wine, and afterwards on the spices. Okay?

Speaker 1: And if one has spice oil, what is that?

Speaker 2: Spices is not the same thing as incense, right? It's a different thing. Both one makes to smell. That's not expensive. I have one called incense, and one called spices. I don't know exactly what the difference is.

That was the order, it's a beautiful order. One needs to reintroduce bringing spices after every meal. You know?

Spice Oil – Anointed on the Head of the Servant

Speaker 2: And afterwards it's so, and if one has spice oil or incense, what is that? There are different types of spices. There are spices which is an oil that smells good. He says, "anointed on the head of the servant". One gives it to the servant on his head, in his hair. Here one sees that the servant may not go with a hat, because I don't know how one can make the head of the servant.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Discussion: Why Does One Hold Spices in Hand While Benching?

Speaker 1: What's the simple meaning why one needs to hold the spices in his hand? If he's going to make the blessing, he should hold the whole spices a whole Birkat Hamazon?

Speaker 2: After Birkat Hamazon, if he will make spices, he should lift it then. I don't know.

Speaker 1: Like vessels of service for the benching, they are like made to connect to the benching, like the cup of blessing.

Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you know?

Speaker 1: No.

Speaker 2: We do so at havdalah indeed, one holds the spices.

Speaker 1: Who says one should hold the spices?

Speaker 2: Because it says in the Shulchan Aruch that one should do it. It says it here.

Speaker 1: Yes, it says in the Shulchan Aruch that one should hold the besamim (spices) by the borei pri hagafen (blessing over wine) and afterwards.

Speaker 2: Yes. That's what we're talking about. One makes the besamim, one makes the havdalah.

Speaker 1: But here we're talking about that one must already do it during bentching (Grace After Meals), before that.

Speaker 2: Certainly, usually, one is still at seudah shlishit (third Sabbath meal), one makes havdalah. The poskim (halachic authorities) need maariv (evening prayer) in between, I don't know why. It's a different topic.

Speaker 1: Now it's like this, one must daven (pray) maariv in between.

Speaker 2: You have an answer, you say it's still before the blessing of havdalah over the cup.

Speaker 1: Well, well, a good question. I have a question why.

Speaker 2: And afterwards, the Zohar says that one may not be mechalel Shabbat (desecrate the Sabbath), and therefore he says kaddish d'sidra, and afterwards maariv.

And now we're not learning motza'ei Shabbat (Saturday night), we'll see there. I don't know.

The Rambam Here Speaks of Weekdays

Speaker 1: Why should one bother him now with holding besamim in his hand? He can take it after bentching. Okay. Fine. It appears that the Rambam... no, the Rambam doesn't speak here specifically about havdalah, there one needs to check. Here we're talking about during the week, he holds besamim because he's going to make a blessing on it after bentching. Because according to the Rambam the order after eating is smelling.

Speaker 2: And the Rambam speaks here openly?

Speaker 1: The Rambam here speaks of weekdays. The Rambam doesn't say here anything about Shabbat. Something I'm uncertain about then. Let's talk about havdalah, he doesn't say which hand should hold the havdalah. He speaks of during the week, he should make a large meal, the order was it comes with mugmar (incense), it comes with besamim.

A Torah Scholar Doesn't Go Out with Perfumed Hair

Speaker 2: Okay, so now, if the besamim is a matter of spreading... Okay, let's finish. If the oil, a talmid chacham (Torah scholar) doesn't go out in the street with perfumed hair. Because a talmid chacham, he must wipe the oil on the wall, he must wipe himself off, one goes and smears it and one continues.

The Cup of Blessing – Laws and Enhancements

The Cup of Blessing Is Not Indispensable

Speaker 2: Now then, one must learn another law about the kos shel bracha (cup of blessing). It appears that this too is derech eretz (proper conduct), they had great respect for the kos shel bracha. The Rambam says, although Birkat HaMazon (Grace After Meals) doesn't require wine, there's no obligation to make wine for Birkat HaMazon. If one made wine, one cannot... It's the whole custom of the Rambam, it appears, I think the Sephardim also do this generally, every kos shel bracha one also brings besamim. Did you know?

Speaker 1: Almost every cup at a wedding one makes besamim.

Speaker 2: Apparently the Rambam means such a thing, but it's a matter to do this... Just as it makes sense to bentch with a cup, it makes sense to bentch with the besamim. It would indeed, it follows like this. Simply the Rambam means here, and the Rambam says if one makes wine, not us, but if one must do a few things with the cup.

Preparation of the Cup of Blessing

Speaker 2: One must wash the kos shel bracha from inside and rinse it from outside, he must wash it from inside and wash it from outside.

And fill it with pure wine, he should fill it with raw wine, that means not mixed. And when he reaches Birkat HaAretz (blessing for the Land) he puts into it a little water so that it will be fit for drinking. It's an interesting order.

Speaker 1: What does one do before Birkat HaAretz?

Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a nice order. Or one mixes the wine in the middle of bentching at... He says that part of the praise of Eretz Yisrael (Land of Israel), apparently in Eretz Yisrael it makes sense, it's a praise of Eretz Yisrael that the wine is so strong that one drinks it with mixing.

Speaker 1: Okay. Because there one does it at Birkat HaAretz.

Speaker 2: He brings this from... I don't know from where he brings it. Because this is a secret. Here one conducts oneself this way, one pours in a little water into the wine at Birkat HaAretz. He says that Rabbeinu Menachem points to the abundance of Eretz Yisrael. Okay, it makes sense. We saw that the main blessing is Birkat HaAretz.

One Doesn't Speak Over the Cup of Blessing

Speaker 2: "And one doesn't speak over the kos shel bracha" – it means one doesn't talk in between until the one blessing drinks the kos shel bracha. "Rather everyone drinks from the drinking of Birkat HaMazon and they are silent and drink" – you see it's not clear when there's an interruption between the bentching and the kos shel bracha. Not clear.

Ten Things for the Cup of Blessing

Speaker 2: The Gemara says that ten things stand on the ten rules, but the Rambam who very much likes to make numbers doesn't bring the ten things.

Speaker 1: Yes, because the Gemara says that one doesn't follow all these things.

Conclusion of Chapter 7 – Laws of Proper Conduct at a Meal

Speaker 2: So, until here is laws of chapter 7, laws of derech eretz at a meal.

Speaker 1: Yes, but there is included various things that have to do with the blessing.

Speaker 2: One must understand, it could be that a blessing simply like that wouldn't receive such honor, but because it's a meal, because it's part of derech eretz at a meal, because it's Birkat HaMazon, the cup, all these things. Fine.