The Ba’al Ta’avah Has the Most Suffering – Prishus is Not to Have Any Suffering (Auto Translated) | תמלול וסיכום מתורגם

An Investigation into the Relationship Between Pleasure and Pain: Does an Abstemious Person Feel Less Pain?

Introduction: Warm-ups for a Lecture and Chassidic Customs

The Necessity of Voice Preparation

Maggid Shiur (Lecturer):

We’re going to learn about Juve Ton, what did they mean? The month of Elul? I thought it was a… because they don’t do any warm-ups for their voice before the shiurim (lectures), or they do it in public in the middle of the shiur. A normal person, everyone knows, a chazan (cantor), someone who speaks, also a baal darshan (preacher), one must… the voice isn’t accustomed, one must sing something a bit for the Rebbe, so that it should open up.

Student:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Maggid Shiur:

But for a shiur, a shiur is… I don’t speak the shiur the way I speak with you. I would have thought, sometimes in short. So the Rebbes who don’t hold that they need to prepare for the prayers in front of the entire congregation.

A Story About the Bobover Rebbe and “Jem” Videos

I heard, I was when they were turning in a watch, I heard. It’s known, whoever knows about the Bobover Rebbe, there’s something called Jem, and Jem puts out such beautiful videos of the Bobover Rebbe. Already, even longer ones, even entire farbrengens (Chassidic gatherings) they put out. They send around, every Motzaei Shabbos (Saturday night) one watches a video of the Rebbe, they send it around.

So… I heard that the real Chassidic young men don’t watch Jem videos, God forbid.

Student:

Why?

Maggid Shiur:

Because the Bobover Rebbe when he is farbrenging, he goes meanwhile, he gave a hiss, meanwhile he gave a l’chaim (toast) to friends, meanwhile he went out, you know, he went being human. Whatever, did other things.

He is… the Jem takes out all those pieces, they make the video very pleasant to watch, they take out. When the Rebbe gives a hiss, they cut it out. One never sees the Rebbe hissing on their videos. They can hear the dvar Torah (Torah teaching), it’s a normal person.

But the Chassidim say, which doesn’t necessarily mean with tzaddikim (righteous people), but not without the Rebbe’s hiss, one must hear with all the coughs, with all the ups and downs. So the real Chassidic young men, there’s no Rebbe drive, one can see full original, as it was.

It’s not about censorship, but Chassidus. He can’t make the Rebbe beautiful. It’s not just beautiful, it’s just when the Rebbe coughed.

Student:

As you say, it was al pi Kabbalah (according to Kabbalistic tradition), he didn’t just cough. He had to first have a reason.

Maggid Shiur:

Ah, a good one. Understand, so one can’t take that out. Ah, a Chassidic perspective this.

A Story About the Vizhnitzer Rebbe and “Nishmat”

Anyway, I actually saw in Reb Motele, the Vizhnitzer Rebbe’s story, that the entire investigation when his grandfather would go to the beis hakisei (bathroom) in the middle of davening (praying), he had a kriah (tearing)…

Student:

Before Nishmat (the prayer “Nishmat”), yes, immediately.

Maggid Shiur:

Before Nishmat, yes. No, before… before “Ani Avdecha” (I am Your servant – a verse in Psalms), yes, before Pesukei D’Zimrah (the “Verses of Praise” section of morning prayers), before Nishmat.

I say, why then in Vizhnitz does one hear the Rebbe say all of Nishmat? What is such a custom? I just remember. He said that the custom began because the grandfather would go to the beis hakisei in Pesukei D’Zimrah, and when he returned he had to catch up, they didn’t wait for him. So he heard Nishmat when the congregation had already continued further, it already became a custom.

So anyway, what do the Chassidim learn, it says that there are full Chassidim of the Rebbe, not just when the Rebbe doesn’t go to the beis hakisei. Not like Pharaoh, understand?

Technical Note About the Recording

After our learning we wanted to speak thus, it has some important chiddushim (novel insights). Yesterday I said a shiur, that it didn’t record, so I also have to say all the chiddushim from then. A bunch of the important things that we need to speak about. Let’s see which is the first of them. I hope so, let’s make a dupe. I can make a backup. I can’t carry, because it says yesterday also stood, but something went. I hope that now it works yes.

Part A: The Basic Investigation into Pleasure and Pain

Presenting the Investigation: What is the Opposite of Pleasure?

So, thus, I have a new investigation. This is just speaking about this, afterwards we’ll go to his other thing. I have such an investigation. We’re still holding in the middle of speaking about the topic of being a baal taavah (one who is driven by physical desires), a very important topic. We haven’t finished.

So I have such an investigation, an interesting investigation I’ve been searching, if there’s someone who speaks about this investigation, perhaps a bit, not exactly found, one would want to know presumably.

A baal taavah, sorry, a non-baal taavah, yes, which means a parush (one who is abstemious) or a zahir (one who is careful/cautious), something like that, is such a type of person who isn’t so drawn, not so cooked in taanugei haguf (physical pleasures), yes, the chush hamishush (the sense of touch). That’s what a non-baal taavah means.

Now, seemingly everyone knows what is the opposite of being a baal taavah? What is the opposite of taanug (pleasure), of pleasure? Tzaar (pain), yes? Pain, tzaar.

Student:

Pain, yes, nega is an interesting derasha (homiletic interpretation). Nega isn’t tzaar, what does that mean?

Maggid Shiur:

That’s the question, seemingly. There’s plains, that’s the investigation. That’s the investigation. So simply, the opposite of taanug is tzaar. I mean, the opposite is certain. The question is whether there’s such a thing in between. That’s exactly a bit of a question. But in any case, it’s certain that if we’re speaking for example of inyenei haguf (matters of the body), so the body has taanug and the body has tzaar. Yes?

Student:

Very good, very good. I’ve encountered this.

Proof from Halacha: The Affliction of Yom Kippur

Maggid Shiur:

That’s exactly a question. I truly have about this an investigation in the poskim (halachic decisors). I’ve searched about this, and it’s brought that there are investigations about this, whether because it says, exactly, there’s a mitzvat inui (the commandment of affliction on Yom Kippur) of inui. There are things that are only meniat oneg (removal of pleasure), and that perhaps one may do entirely. There’s perhaps the opposite, perhaps the matter that says Yom Kippur (Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement) means only meniat oneg, it means one must afflict oneself.

That’s exactly the opposite. It already says, there were people who stood on one foot and afflicted themselves, stood on Yom Kippur. But that’s a sugya (a Talmudic topic/discussion). But simply it means the opposite, it doesn’t mean.

That’s that when there’s actually, like regarding rechitzah (washing), where it says only rechitzah shel taanug (washing for pleasure). If it’s simply not to be b’tzaar (in pain), it’s the opposite. By achilah (eating) it’s perhaps different, I mean. Yes, also here there’s a machloket (dispute) about this, but that’s an investigation. But there’s such an investigation.

Right, so let’s go back to all these proofs from the Torah. Let’s go back to this, that seemingly, taanug and tzaar are things that don’t go together. One must know that there’s such a thing as completely neutral. It can be neutral when you don’t feel anything at all.

But every taanug, there were those who argued that every taanug, that is, I was hungry, a taanug comes with a certain kind of tzaar, a certain chesron (lack/deficiency) you can call it. I was hungry, it means, I’m not hungry. So the taanug is, it can be that it’s something more than not being hungry, you’re added to. But it’s two hafachim (opposites). Let’s just say that this is the hanachah (assumption) of the question.

Part B: The Core Investigation – Does an Abstemious Person Feel Less Pain?

Presenting the Main Question

If so, I have an investigation, this is my investigation. A refined Jew, however one calls a non-baal taavah, is that he doesn’t cook himself so strongly in the kugel, that’s what everyone agrees.

Student:

No, whether he’s a mesagef (one who mortifies himself) is still an investigation.

Maggid Shiur:

That’s true, it has to do a bit with that investigation. We’ve already spoken about this, that that investigation is a well-known investigation. But I have another investigation that’s less known.

Whether the same Jew, when he has a headache, it hurts him less, it bothers him less. Do you understand the question?

There are such stories, some Rebbe had anesthesia, because the moach shalit al halev (the mind rules over the heart), something like that… So they say, yes.

Digression: Anesthesia at the Dentist

Student:

I also don’t hold of anesthesia. It seems to me very modern. I’m not saying, one doesn’t need. Don’t you take at the dentist when they do a root canal?

Maggid Shiur:

I don’t ask myself. Today one doesn’t ask. I once did without it actually.

Student:

What’s a root canal?

Maggid Shiur:

He gave me a choice, and he says no. It’s my own business. It’s not a root canal, but the next other thing. I can mean, okay, I have simply other parts, because I don’t like there shouldn’t be any trouble. I myself don’t know, I don’t feel with my own gums, or what’s going on here? It hurts a bit. Okay, too much pain, I can go crazy. But it hurts a bit, I know. I don’t know from any whether he still takes out the whole time, I don’t have anything else, so I know how he does it.

Student:

Ah, that’s why he does it.

Maggid Shiur:

Yes, presumably it’s for the taste of the dentist, not for the patient. You’ll give him a slap in the middle.

Student:

Okay.

Maggid Shiur:

Okay, that I can already yes overcome, even a normal person. I’m not talking about any crazy thing. So why should one less?

Anyway, that’s my investigation. That’s my investigation.

Practical Halachic Difference: Medicine on Shabbos

Whether a tzaddik (righteous person), I know many stories of tzaddikim who didn’t feel any taste in food, I know fewer stories. There are perhaps some such stories, but I know fewer stories. Of a tzaddik that it didn’t hurt him, they hurt his body. He was given a slap it didn’t hurt him. Why? He was davuk (cleaving/attached) to the Almighty.

Student:

That’s another level.

Maggid Shiur:

Agreed, I’m not talking about that. It’s another level. It didn’t hurt him. Let’s talk about this. Physically you know.

Student:

Also physically, when he eats he physically…

Maggid Shiur:

We’re not talking about the physical. We’re always talking what we’re talking about, speaking a bit less about the physical, a bit more. We’re talking that it doesn’t hurt him.

Student:

No, I’m asking yes. That means whether he runs away from it less?

Maggid Shiur:

There are such investigations taking medicine on Shabbat, there are people who are very machmir (stringent) about… There’s an issur (prohibition) of taking refuah on Shabbos (medicine), but if one is sick one may.

So what is if I have a big headache and I can take a… what’s it called? Tylenol, but I’m a tzaddik and it doesn’t bother me. What is there? What does one follow? Someone should ask such a question whether one may take Tylenol on Shabbos for a headache.

Student:

No, no, there’s a righteous thing. I mean thus, yes. What? There’s a business of taking refuah on Shabbos. If it’s nafal l’mishkav (bedridden), if one is a choleh (sick person), even choleh she’ein bo sakanah (one who is ill but not in danger), one may. So, what’s the law by someone who simply has a headache?

Maggid Shiur:

I had a friend who told me, “I have a headache, and I hold that if I would have taken medicine I would have gone to bed also.” He held that specifically not to go to bed. It says in the poskim “nafal l’mishkav”. I want to do that there’s no nafka minah (practical difference), in bed it also hurts. But you’re essentially so sick, you’ll have such a calculation that one may.

Part C: The Reverse Side – Does a Baal Taavah Feel More Pain?

But I want to bring out… Well, you understand, make investigations, that you go to the same thing. Let’s say the opposite, someone who is very strongly affected by taavat achilah (desire for food) and the like, is he a grobyan (coarse person). Someone who is very strongly affected that one gives him a slap, is he also such a same grobyan? Not the same.

Student:

Yes, a maalah (virtue/level) of a tzaddik, every thing maalot can go ad ein sof (infinitely). Yes, there’s a person who is fearful, one gives him a slap in the face. It’s not pain, that’s already kavod (honor/dignity).

The Concept of “Istinis”

Maggid Shiur:

It’s an istinis (fastidious/overly sensitive person). Ah, do you know what an istinis is?

Student:

Very good.

Maggid Shiur:

There’s something called an istinis. He became overnight an istinis. An istinis is a bit the same thing. Someone is an istinis about food, yes, he’s an istinis, he can only eat with four other ketchups with… I don’t know what. Does he eat ketchup with coarse young men eating. He speaks about the better things. Not that he’s someone who is refined, that everyone is a disturbance. It bothers him. Not that he must, he’s not talking about

Abstinence: Distinction Between Two Levels – The Normal Person and the Torah Scholar

Most Important Introduction: We’re Not Talking About That Level

Maggid Shiur:

But I just want to bring out… Just you understand, make a distinction that you go to the same thing. Let’s say the opposite, someone who is very strongly affected by taavat achilah and the like, is he a coarse young man. Someone who is very strongly affected that one gives him a slap, is he also such a same coarse young man? Not the same. A maalah of a tzaddik, every thing maalot can go ad ein sof. Yes, there’s a person who withdraws his hand, one gives him a pull on the plantings. It’s not pain, that’s already kavod.

It’s an istinis. Ah, do you know what an istinis is? Very good. There’s such a thing called istinis. It was istinis. An istinis is a bit soon the same thing. Someone is an istinis about eating and drinking, yes, he can only eat with four other ketchups with… I don’t know what. Istinis ketchup, ketchup with coarse… I’m not speaking. He has more tzaar, but that’s the sevara (logical reasoning), why he’s more sensitive, he’s a more sensitive person. Okay, well. Yes, but I mean that’s another thing.

I must remember this the whole time. I want to make, say a most important introduction, that we’re not talking about that thing. That is, there’s a level, I mean that one can call it a level, there’s a level that one can call about prishut (abstinence), which has to do with this speaking, like… We’re always speaking, this is the answer to the contradiction of the Rambam (Maimonides), and the simple answer is an answer, I mean that all commentators learn thus.

The Contradiction in the Rambam and the Answer

There’s a contradiction in the Rambam that in most of the Shulchan Aruch, I mean that in the Rambam it’s very clear the contradiction, that in Shemonah Perakim (Eight Chapters on Ethics), Chapter 4, he speaks at length, that one may not do any sigufim (self-mortification), and one must live normally, derech ha-memutzah (the middle path), and whoever looks even in Hilchot De’ot (Laws of Character Traits) it already says a talmid chacham (Torah scholar) shouldn’t be found, and even in Perush ha-Mishnah (Commentary on the Mishnah) he already brings in other places when speaking of arayot (forbidden sexual relations), and the Rambam is and Moreh Nevuchim (Guide for the Perplexed) is even much sharper that against all kinds of material matters, one should try as little and even not eat, and so on.

What has he already spoken about this? Other people already have Moreh Nevuchim? No, everyone says still from somewhere. But the answer, and so on and many more places. And the normal answer to this is that… What says in Shemonah Perakim is from the side of midat ha-prishut (the character trait of abstinence). From the side of midat ha-prishut is from the side of what a person must be, from the side of a normal person, not a talmid chacham, one must be be-derech ha-mitzvah (in the way of the commandment).

Level 1: The Talmid Chacham – His Soul Desires Torah

But if someone’s soul desires Torah [nafsho chashkah ba-Torah], then this is a contradiction, even something that is completely permitted, that is even a mitzvah for a normal person, it is a contradiction, because one cannot in actuality [be-fo’al], one cannot learn when one is lying in that, even when one is not lying, even if it’s only a little bit [mashehu], that little bit he will learn less.

When the Ramban [Nachmanides] is clear that someone whose soul desires Torah, he doesn’t need to do even procreation [pirya ve-rivya], he can perhaps defer it completely even, like Ben Azzai [a Talmudic sage who never married] and so forth. It could be that the Rambam himself got married very late, so there is logical reasoning [sevara], because he held onto learning, he cannot.

So then, I mean that it says in the Mishnah that the Torah is called “with what will he delight” [nikre’et ba-meh yit’aneg], that speaks of a law in Torah study [Talmud Torah], not any law in the prohibition of pleasure [issur ta’anug]. The same thing speaks about improper thoughts [hirur]. The Rambam says that improper thoughts are found only in one whose heart is empty of wisdom [ha-hirur matzuy ela le-va’al lev panuy min ha-chochmah], this is not the prohibition of improper thoughts, this is the commandment of wisdom [mitzvat chochmah].

The Rambam means to say that it stands to reason, things connect. But it’s not simple that there is advice, improper thoughts, one needs to know which improper thoughts are permitted, a positive commandment, it’s by force and by will [be-ones u-ve-ratzon], accidentally and intentionally [be-shogeg u-mezid], it’s not the same level.

The main point, what it says there in the second chapter in the Sages [Chazal], is Laws of the Foundations of the Torah [Hilchot Yesodei ha-Torah], it speaks from the side of wisdom. That a person needs to be wise, there is a commandment, every Jew has a commandment to learn Torah, to be a bit wise. But certainly, a Torah scholar may not, the Torah obligates him, lying in Torah, or it’s an even higher level, lying in wisdom. So he is obligated that they should engage less. But this is already a completely different level.

Level 2: The Normal Person – Eight Chapters

We’re not talking about that. That is, we’re not talking today, this lecture, Eight Chapters doesn’t speak about that. Eight Chapters speaks mainly about what a person should be. You could say he was a householder [ba’al ha-bayit], or he has a… That’s a completely different thing.

The abstinence that is completely, truly, you could say so, who eats only by necessity [be-hechre’ach]? There is a difference between eating by necessity and eating with appropriate pleasure [be-ta’anug ha-ra’uy]. You know, the righteous person, the person who only wants to be in cleaving to God [be-devekut], who thinks Torah and the like, essentially he wouldn’t want to eat, it would be better, he wants to die, like Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai [Talmudic sage, author of the Zohar], he wants to be essentially a soul. Without choice one must eat, so he eats without choice. Without choice one needs to have a wedding, so he wanted a wedding. If he has an exemption [patur], he is exempt, whatever. That’s one type of thing.

We’re not talking about that. We’re talking about the person who on the contrary, there is indeed a character trait in commandments [middah be-mitzvot]. Character trait in commandments means that he should indeed enjoy a bit, in the appropriate measure, in the appropriate manner [be-ofan ha-ra’uy] he should indeed want to have a desire [ta’avah], want to eat and want to drink and want to do all things of bodily pleasures [ta’anugei ha-guf], just not too much. That is the Torah.

The Halachic Question: Can One Not Want?

The halachah says, I don’t understand, it can’t be that – we’ve spoken many times about the Ramban – but it can’t be that the Torah says that one may and must have a wedding, and one may and must eat all kosher things [devarim ha-kesherim], but one may not want it, one must do it by force [be-ones]. It’s very strange. No, that is, again, for the other level it’s true, but for the simple level it’s not true.

Student:

It could be he means the level, I don’t know, I don’t understand the Rambam. He already spoke for a whole lecture, I don’t understand it so well. Okay, the length is not our discussion.

Examples of Sensitivity and Fastidiousness

Lecturer:

But I want you to understand, the same thing, you want regarding you say that someone is completely soft, you say, he’s lying in learning, and he doesn’t feel at all that they’re pushing him. I’m not talking about that level. Even the truth is, even that level, he will only do it when there’s no choice. A little he can be pushed, a little not. It’s already truly dependent on the level, that he only relates to the entire body from the perspective of necessity [be-vchinat hechre’ach], only when it’s lacking.

I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about what we’re discussing. Normal that he needs, a person shouldn’t be a glutton, but he should indeed want certain things. I want to know that the same thing is said on the other side of this, on pain. One says that someone who is too… I always wonder, I know both types like there are Chasidic Jews.

Example: Physical Sensitivity

For example, sensitive yes, but sensitive in body, yes? Therefore sensitive… There are Jews who when the air conditioning doesn’t work, it doesn’t bother them. They continue driving. It bothers them yes, but they don’t make a big deal. And there are great Chasidic Jews who always make sure that air conditioning should be right. What if it doesn’t work? Are they not people? No.

Okay, it could be just a habit [regilut], truly a bodily habit [regilut gufo]. One doesn’t grow up with this, and became confused [ve-nitbalbal]. If he becomes not a person, it’s a problem. Yes? Why? If it’s lacking for him, will still understand that he’s not standing locally. He becomes not a person, right? Why? Because he has a body. It’s still too right even. It’s not too right.

Question: Fastidiousness About Desires vs. Fastidiousness About Pain

I ask you a simple question. Being fastidious in this [be-chi], in the manner of desires. Being fastidious that he cannot eat. The truth is perhaps about that also, I don’t know. This has to do with the question, it’s just a whole time. What does refinement mean? That there is someone who can only eat food that has been… his steak must be exactly baked and not baked, whatever the law is, exactly if it’s a bit too much too… little, he has no taste with this, he cannot eat.

There are other people, we had, I know it again, who is the greater person of taste [ba’al ta’am]? But… but here on the contrary, I haven’t heard so much that someone should say that someone whom the cold bothers very strongly, I don’t know, it’s pain from the body. It’s certainly with a pipe. What is dangerous, let’s say. That speaks of thirty in the Gemara. Today’s opposite ones say about opposite also. Let’s be so, I agree.

But this is already… the window helps for. Well, well, I don’t stand. Do you still taste a wall? By such being one’s own quack they’ve already said. And is the problem? Let’s say a person who doesn’t withstand any cold. But he becomes cold, he cannot live with this thing, and he goes further. He won’t stop davening about this, he won’t stop. That is the question.

Example: The Synagogue Heating

No, I feel him the holy answer, because what you’re talking about, that is a certain humanity. There is a synagogue, they lit it wastefully, not too high or too hundred. Already, what does it mean to him? Will they yell at the synagogue officers [gaba’im]? There is a synagogue where one can get into fights with the officers. He cannot contain himself, he lifts me satisfied, he thinks away. And many people say, stop thinking. I say, I’m not talking about the yelling of fighting, it’s an in three character trait [middah]. I mean it has, because the question, that is what one speaks many times about, that one gets used to that even something that I want or I don’t want, so that is your topic of desire, you must remember that we want to speak…

Distinction Between Different Character Traits

Perhaps it’s a different trait, perhaps there is a trait that… because we remember that we want to speak here according to the Rambam, which divides the thing very strongly. You remember that the Rambam has a list of nine traits, right? And perhaps there are more if one puts together another list. According to Chasidic thought [al pi chasidut] there are only two traits, love and fear [ahavah ve-yir’ah], basically. Afterwards victory/endurance [netzach], that is very… much less.

But the Ramban has many more traits, and he says that it means that each topic has a different trait. That is, when one speaks of desire, of abstinence, one speaks exactly of the trait that is toward bodily pleasures [kelape ta’anugim gufani’im]. That is exactly the definition [hagdarah].

If you want to say that there is another trait, in a more general way [be-ofan yoter kelali], a person should not be so standing on his opinion [omed al da’ato], he should be forgiving [ma’avir al midotav, literally “passing over his character traits”], he should be more, as one calls today, he is more an easy person, it’s a person who is very difficult, difficult to deal with him, every thing must be exactly as he wants, he doesn’t need to be exactly as he wants. Perhaps it has more with the character traits related to community [middot ha-kahal]? Both, being a vessel, it’s other traits, acceptance/tolerance [kablanut].

I’m not speaking, there are other traits that this goes into, but I’m speaking from the side of the trait that has to do with how the person’s relationship to his body is [yachas tzu zayn guf iz], his bodily pleasures are. Whether from this side there is something that if someone who has more… let’s say fastidiousness is not such a good example, because it’s perhaps a type of person. But let’s… somewhere when a person feels something, there is something a certain type, something is a relationship that exists there.

Question: Is Self-Affliction Also Training in Abstinence?

Let’s ask another question. I mean that the same question comes out like this. And everyone understands that one speaks that the way that one acquires character traits is to habituate oneself [margi’l zayn], yes, even before one feels it, one feels and gets used to it. So everyone understands that, we already spoke about this also last week, and about this is one of the reasons why the character trait of pleasure [midat ha-ta’anug], the character trait of abstinence, is like the transgression [aveirah] on this is the most severe [chamur] and the most looked out for, because one has very many opportunities [hizdamnu’yot] to train.

Every time you have a piece of kugel you can eat less, or more, with less desire, however it shouldn’t be the right way. And so you train. So one habituates oneself in the character trait of abstinence, right?

So I ask you a question, self-affliction is also a way of habituating oneself in the character trait of abstinence? Like you know then? Well, what is the difference? No, if the question is, if what you do is

Abstinence: Pain, Acceptance of Suffering, and the Boundaries of Duties of the Hearts

Self-Affliction and Pain as a Path to Abstinence

Every time you need a piece of kugel, you can eat less, or more, with less desire, however it should be the right way. And so one trains oneself, so one habituates oneself in the character trait of abstinence, right?

So, the question arises: is self-affliction also a way of habituating oneself in the character trait of abstinence? If the reasoning is that there is pleasure, there is pain, there is suffering, there are two opposites the same thing. Someone who is abstinent is less affected by both this and that, or he is not affected by the suffering. Because always one can even say that always it is suffering, because every time he doesn’t eat it hurts him a bit. It’s not worse, it’s good for him that way.

So, I’m not talking about that, that’s still an inquiry into what is the right character trait. But one speaks of habit. One can even habit always suffering, as the Rambam [Maimonides] also says later. Everyone agrees that refraining from a piece of food, which is also a bit of certain pain, but not emphasizing the pain, rather he is emphasizing the non-pleasure.

The question is if someone, he will make just pain, he will pinch himself…

Student: Rolling in snow [glgul sheleg].

Digression: Rolling in Snow and Other Afflictions

Lecturer: Exactly. Let’s say he does rolling in snow, not that there are all kinds of reasons why he does it. Rolling in snow so that he shouldn’t love his body. Whether that works, whether that is the thing. They did it, though. They did it, but for other reasons. I don’t know for which reasons.

Student: He meant for atonement for sins it’s also so.

Lecturer: Yes, there are many reasons for why to do rolling in snow. But, again, it can also be for the more classical thing. If one speaks of the more classical thing, one sees that I must from the body, I’m not speaking of the body. But I’m speaking specifically. But again, there are other reasons. For each thing there are other reasons. We make distinctions. We speak specifically for the reasons.

I have a problem. Let’s say, I have a problem. Most people have a problem that they eat too much, they love their bodily pleasures too much. The advice is, he should give himself lashes. I don’t know what should go. Does it work for that? It works for something else perhaps, but does it work for that? I am… I believe… from summary it doesn’t look like it doesn’t work, I don’t know, I don’t know, can it work?

Self-affliction, sometimes people came an affliction. Yes, people went into the forest and one pricked oneself. Yes, but pricked oneself, again, in a more general way, because he had… the pricking oneself, I tell you, because the pricking oneself can be first of all that it’s atonement for sins, whatever who knows if it works. Yes, yes.

Student: After he sat among the bees, he wanted less to look.

Lecturer: If it’s abuse, the body won’t forgive. So I say, so the general thing I can understand that it helps, but the specific thing…

Student: Yes, it helps. The body says it’s already a very general thing.

Lecturer: I’m speaking of the specific thing. No, it’s not against desires, it’s against the will of a body. Because you remember… let’s ask so, he spoke that there are other types of desires, there is desire for honor [ta’avat kavod], which one also calls such a desire. He’s not speaking of here, right? So that one who hits… wait wait, honor, does one need to disgrace oneself like the folk?

Student: The folk was disgracing themselves in order to work on the…

Lecturer: The thing is… it’s a similar thing in a different topic. I’m speaking of the topic. I’m not speaking of the way of the way of blessed memory [zikhrono livrakha]. I just want to know if it’s at all correct.

Student: Agree.

Abstinence: Not Loving Pleasure, Not Withstanding Pain

So I ask you, why when one speaks in other words, I’ll go around saying differently. All people say, normally one says that an abstinent person is one who doesn’t love bodily pleasure so much. Does one say on the contrary, an abstinent person is one whom the pain of the body doesn’t bother.

When a person when having a very mitzvah, when he holds back, what the beautiful mitzvah is that he has a tooth from that? You can’t look at it that way. Fine, no? I’m speaking of that, exactly.

So the abstinent person is the one who has no pain, or who loves that pain, who can withstand that pain. Let’s not speak of that. First means not abuse. I’m not speaking of that. Agree, because that is not the all of what is the right character trait. But let’s say what is not abuse.

Parable of the Cow and the Horse

English Translation

Something seems to me, all these things to say at length, I need to be very precise on this point. It seems to me that first of all, tzaar haba me’elav [pain that comes by itself], meaning not that a person makes himself a fast, let’s talk extreme, because perhaps it touches on this. Okay. But it seems to me that if someone just bangs himself into the wall and he screams “ouch.” It could be that there is a measure of not making too much of such things. It could be. I haven’t examined this specifically. It could be that there is a measure of not making too much of it.

Because who says, there are people who are somehow fearfully drawn to every thing, and there are people who are more internal. It could be that there is such a measure, presumably there is a good measure not to make so much of it. But I don’t see that we call that person a ba’al ta’avah [one controlled by desire]. I don’t see it.

You see a cow in the stable, and you see how it stands, it doesn’t know much to pull back its wings, and every minute with its tail it swats its wings. It looks like a giant animal, I don’t know. It feels that something… a tzaddik doesn’t swat away the wings. There is something like that.

Student: Okay, okay, okay, specifically, what does the cow do the whole way? Does it stand in one place?

Maggid Shiur: And it visually swats its wings. Yes, because it doesn’t have anything else to do. But a Jew does it here learning and he swats away the wings. We don’t do anything else besides that.

I want to say that it seems that when a person is in his comfort, even though he’s not scratching his back. The cow looks at that, that the whole thing is a piece of flesh here that itches him. It doesn’t seem to me that there is anything else. I don’t know, I’m just saying the feelings. The part of the feelings, this is not that we define that it’s the same. No, we’re talking here about a certain pain. We understand that it always has to do with. I don’t know, we’re talking about the whole body, the separate side by every person and less body.

Now the התייחסות [relationship] to this is very strong, how much are you? Are you then still… when you see the cow, it doesn’t give milk now, it does nothing. Yes, but on the other hand, the horse that we whip all day, it continues going. It goes better, it doesn’t scratch, it doesn’t run away. It’s a horse, it’s a cow then. Something that is a certain התייחסות?

A person spends a whole day yes, unfortunately in the bitter cold, and I know, even in the camps, and then you’re not a person. And I understand, yes, and if you spend less time, and even things where you actually have more time, and somewhere you’re not relating to yourself.

Kabbalat Yissurim B’Ahavah – A Special Measure

No, let’s ask another question. There is a good measure which is called… kabbalat yissurim b’ahavah [accepting suffering with love], yes? There is such a thing. A child who has faith. But let’s not even talk about faith. That is, besides that, again, when we say faith, we’re already talking about a whole different level. Lo hen v’lo zichram [neither they nor their memory]. Again, that’s what I’m saying.

But there is such a measure, everyone, I think that everyone agrees, perhaps he doesn’t agree, but I think that kabbalat yissurim b’ahavah is a basic good measure of a person. Why? Even regarding whether it’s an atonement because it comes for sins, or whether it’s yissurim shel ahavah [suffering of love], or whether… what will be the deeper teachings?

But simply, that a person can… how do you say it? He endures the difficulties that… every person has difficulties. Chayei ha’olam hazeh [life in this world] is full of pain also. And there is a good measure that a person doesn’t get lost over every small trouble.

The Rambam on “Mevarech Al HaRa’ah K’shem SheM’varech Al HaTovah”

True, that the Rambam says in Avot [Pirkei Avot] by the Mishnah of “mevarech al hara’ah k’shem shem’varech al hatovah” [one who blesses over bad just as one blesses over good], the Rambam explains there, that when a bad thing comes, it doesn’t have to be that it will always remain bad. From bad things come out good things, from good things come out bad things. Don’t get lost from anything.

The Rambam says there, “al hatovah ken al hara’ah,” because many times a bad thing happens, which in the end turns out to be good. That’s not dangerous. On the contrary, no, that’s an intelligent thing. I’m not talking about the… afterwards there are other things about being mevarech et Hashem [blessing God], but I’m already talking before that on the human level. Right? That is indeed a good measure.

Yes, you have such a good measure, and you agree that there is such a good measure. The good measure is a good measure, but it’s not the measure of perishut [abstinence], it’s a different measure. Kabbalat yissurim b’ahavah. An extra measure. An extra measure. An extra measure.

Chovot HaLevavot: Different Definitions of Perishut

I’ll tell you an interesting thing, Chovot HaLevavot Sha’ar HaPerishut Perek Bet [Duties of the Heart, Gate of Abstinence, Chapter 2] goes through a list of a bunch of definitions of the middat haperishut [measure of abstinence].

Student: Yes, you’re not simple. Not this, not this, not this.

Maggid Shiur: Yes, right. He has a long list, I didn’t remember that it says there. Chovot HaLevavot is generally much more lenient, his perishut is also much more lenient, he’s extreme from the Rambam. He doesn’t say middat hamitzvah [the measure of the commandment], he says that one should only eat what one needs, and he makes distinctions for different people, not everyone can be a parush [abstinent one]. But I think that his ideal of perishut is much sharper, it’s one of the greater levels that we’re talking about here.

The Rambam is further, more than the Rambam, I mean more than the Shemonah Perakim [Eight Chapters], yes, more than the halachah, Shulchan Aruch [Code of Jewish Law], more than the Shulchan Aruch in Even HaEzer [section dealing with marriage and family law], not Shulchan Aruch in Orach Chaim [section dealing with daily life and prayer], much more than that. That is, he says that perishut is basically not at all in olam hazeh [this world], that’s basically his idea of perishut.

But he does have yes in his list of definitions, and I haven’t checked who it is, and perhaps there is perhaps a way that can indicate from whom he means, or from where all these approaches come. Nechleku hachachamim b’gidrah [the sages disagreed about its definition], there are different approaches among the sages. What is the definition of perishut? A long list, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, a whole different one.

One of them is v’amar acher [and another said], a second one said, I don’t know who, haperishut hahoda’ah al hatovah v’sevel hanisayon [abstinence is gratitude for the good and bearing trials]. Basically, if I understand this is more or less l’varech al hatovah v’al hara’ah [to bless over the good and over the bad]. When it goes well, be happy, and when there is a nisayon [trial], meaning it doesn’t go badly. Lashon harishonim [the language of the early authorities], many times nisayon means plain a trouble, that today also sometimes we call it that, doesn’t necessarily mean today one is being tested, and that is perishut, and he doesn’t agree.

He says that the… the next other definition is, as I said, the true definition of perishut is not meni’at hanefesh mikol menuchah v’ta’anug gufani [withholding the soul from all rest and bodily pleasure], but what is lacking mitzad hateva [from nature]. That is the correct perishut. But you see that there were people who thought that perishut with kabbalat yissurim…

Perishut and Gevurah: The Rambam’s Explanation of the Desert

Perishut Is Not About Pain

The Distinction Between Perishut and Other Measures

Because it makes sense, because perishut is indeed the relationship to tovat ha’olam hazeh [the good of this world], and what does the Mishnah say? What does a Jew need? When one is mevarech al hara’ah k’shem shem’varech al hatovah, v’al hatovah k’shem shem’varech al hara’ah, makes a blessing on everything.

And the Chovot HaLevavot doesn’t agree. Why? I understand, if I think, I don’t know if this is the reason, but it could be that the… I think the reason why he doesn’t agree is because he wants to talk about the more specific thing.

The Chovot HaLevavot doesn’t disagree with the matter of being modeh [grateful] al hatovah v’al hara’ah, but what he says is that this is not perishut, this is perhaps another thing, this is perhaps another measure. Perishut has to do more specifically with ta’anug [pleasure], so it comes out from Chovot HaLevavot.

Chovot HaLevavot Only Talks About Ta’anug, Not About Tzaar

Chovot HaLevavot doesn’t speak, if you look, he almost doesn’t speak about tzaar [pain] in the entire book, he always talks about luxuries, about not luxuries, the whole discussion is how much ta’anug one can take away, but he basically doesn’t talk about…

Even the Chovot HaLevavot doesn’t talk about sigufim [self-afflictions], yes, sigufim is only Chasidei Ashkenaz as far as I remember. The Chovot HaLevavot doesn’t have any sigufim, specifically that one should make oneself pain. He does have yes, meaning hitbodedut [solitude], hitbodedut, you can call it a siguf, one specifically goes away from chevrat bnei adam [human company], but it’s not to torture oneself, it’s more on the positive side of it.

But also he doesn’t talk at all about the topic that not causing bodily pains is something with perishut. Do you understand?

So it seems from all these reasoning that it’s not the same thing. We don’t find, if you know, we don’t usually find that perishut should have to do with pain. Although the same body, it has some connection, the same thing, not having ta’anug is tzaar. We don’t see it that way, so I think that we don’t see it that way.

The Normal Parush Does Have Ta’anug

But we need to find the word, what is indeed the distinction? How do we divide it? There is one thing that you come to say. You can try to think that one who has perishut… he is usually so neutral, I don’t know, ta’anug, but it’s also funny, because he does have yes ta’anug, he has indeed the right measure of ta’anug.

And we’re talking now about the normal parush, about the normal… it’s not the simple understanding that he always lives something like… in general, a person to be living like that, he’s terribly a boring person. There’s no ta’anug, on the contrary, he’s indeed joyful, he has yes a ta’anug. He has yes a ta’anug, he thanks the Almighty for it. He’s indeed happy.

Student: Yes, so, okay.

Maggid Shiur: I mean indeed I haven’t… no, they’re talking now about ta’avot haguf [bodily desires]. Also from ta’avot haguf, the normal person who is on middat hazehirut [the measure of caution], has pleasure from it, not too much, but he makes birchot hanehenin [blessings over pleasures]. If he didn’t have pleasure, he couldn’t make any birchot hanehenin.

Okay, I don’t know if it’s a proof, perhaps indeed so, Chassidic books bring that it has proofs. But the ideal that we’re talking about here is yes to have pleasure, right?

Student: But in what way…

The Opposite of Ba’al Ta’avah Is Not Tzaar

Maggid Shiur: I want to say this, in what way, and this is also for me like the conclusion that I want to take out from this, I want to say at length, in what way does it come out that if we understand, this is an introduction to understand why, the opposite of ba’al ta’avah is not tzaar, on the contrary, I want to make deeds be so, understand because I brought all these examples to show that we don’t think that and one doesn’t think, we don’t properly find that or we find it perhaps in certain approaches, but usually we don’t find that not having pain from the body, that is the topic of a parush.

It could be that there are other measures, and it has other laws, as you say, not becoming completely lost over a trouble, and not making too much of every time something bothers him.

The Gemara says indeed kol yemei ani ra’im [all the days of the poor are bad] is an istenis [delicate person], it’s simply good advice not to be too much of an istenis, a delicate person. If he can, yes, if he became, if he became, if he became in Gamliel grew up in a Rebbe’s house, he has no choice, he’s an istenis, because he was raised that way. And everything goes well for him. But… that’s still another thing.

Discussion About Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi

Digression: Lo Nitnaseiti

Student: True, true. I have him a… I’ll explain to you about this.

Maggid Shiur: In any case, this is… it seems that this is a different measure. You’re right, there is a measure that you’re talking about…

Student: No, but I said that the Rabbi is a first miracle, but he can say about himself “lo nitnaseiti” [I was not tested], even “ma’aser b’ketanim oleh lazeh” [tithe on minors counts for this].

Maggid Shiur: Okay, that’s a great dispute among the commentators what this and that piece about Rabbi means. There is only you want to go the Gerer Torah, I mean indeed the simple explanation, I’ve already only become.

Student: No, not that is one explanation, but there are other explanations.

Maggid Shiur: Okay, that fits ours, I once spoke about this.

The Chiddush: There Is Another Measure

Fasting Doesn’t Help for Perishut

What I want to say is something else. What I want to understand is a new chiddush [novel insight]. I want to understand, if so one agrees that someone who is a parush is not someone who suffers a lot of pain, not that makes him a parush. It could be that it’s a different topic of how to fix oneself regarding pain. And I want to give an explanation for this. And the explanation I’ll begin like this, afterwards it will go further.

First of all I’ll say like this, as Harav R’ Yoel, what’s his name R’ Yoel? R’ Ben Zerach says. R’ Zerach says that there are yes things, we said we need to hear this, a very interesting thing. There is, I said, one of mine is vayachkot, I think it’s true, I think, one says, fasting, I’ve spoken with many people, fasting is training on something, but not that one should be less of a ba’al ta’avah, I don’t know, afterwards everyone can go to shul motza’ei yom hakodesh [after the holy day] and see that it didn’t help.

It should have helped for a few minutes, it doesn’t help, because more actually more hungry, okay, in short. It can’t be that there’s any Jew, but there are tzaddikim who work on themselves, even after Yom Kippur he eats calmly, in order. But… one needs to work, it means that it should make it easier for a normal person, and it makes it harder for a normal person. It can’t be that this is the normal tears.

Fasting Doesn’t Make a Person Who Wants to Eat Less

It can’t be that it’s a mitzvah of fasting perhaps for other reasons and other things, but regarding the topic of… it could be it even does on the nitkak, the greater level it can do on, that a person when he doesn’t eat, he is like an angel. But it doesn’t make him a person who wants to eat less, understand? By that motza’ei yom hakodesh when he returns a person, he is hungry, like everyone. Basically, but the person it didn’t help him.

So I don’t see, and the same thing, someone has a ta’avah, he says, the advice to work on ta’avah is to torture oneself a lot, I don’t know what. It doesn’t seem to me that it helps, perhaps there is a matter that he makes sigufim, but not that it helps for this.

But There Is Another Measure That Sigufim Do Help For

So but, this is what you say, there are yes things that it helps for, this one needs to hear. There is another measure, which for that measure it does help yes to accustom oneself to… to ta’anug.

The Rambam’s Explanation of the Desert

The Great Example: Parashat Beshalach

What is the great example of this? The great example of this is the Rambam’s explanation of the desert. The Rambam’s explanation of Parashat Beshalach. It’s an interesting explanation from the Rambam.

Student: Yes, in Parashat Beshalach, also in Devarim, also in essence.

Maggid Shiur: But Parashat Beshalach, the Rambam says it already on Parashat Beshalach. The Rambam says, why didn’t the Almighty take the Jews straight to Eretz Yisrael? The Rambam says, in order to conquer Eretz Yisrael. I think that’s simple.

Slaves Don’t Have Courage

The Rambam says famously, no, there is the Ezra who says about Moshe Rabbeinu a different Torah. I say that the Rambam says, the opposite Torah different. The Rambam says like this, that the Jews needed to go into Eretz Yisrael, all the sermons of Moshe Rabbeinu from the beginning of Sefer Devarim, run away from this, one needs to have strengthening and not have fear, chazki yemei tiferet [be strong days of glory], Yehoshua bin Nun, and there are all the Jews. Broken from the nations there to fight, in short, have a lot of courage.

The Nature of Slaves and the Training of the Jewish People

And the nature, says the Rambam, is that slaves don’t have any courage. Slaves are people, they have a hard life, but the nature of slaves who are there from pleasure, they don’t have anything else, they don’t have any human independence, they have nothing at all. The only thing he can do is eat a little, Rivkah gave me a little, but he can’t do anything. He’s not a person who does, he doesn’t have any ownership, he doesn’t have ownership of himself, he’s not a master of himself, he can’t do anything.

Lema’an anotcha – To Train the Jews

So about this, this is apparently the simple meaning, about this the Jews, also the answer why there’s no contradiction between the entire splitting of the Sea of Reeds with the giving of the Torah with this, because you see, this is what the Jews deserved, once they held a war, it was the mitzvah that came at the Sea of Reeds, everyone was frightened, Moshe Rabbeinu made a miracle, they fought, and that was also, but they didn’t hold themselves back from fighting, the Almighty had to fight for them, “Hashem yilachem lachem,” but the Jews could fight for Klal Yisrael, that’s indeed a mitzvah that one should fight, that was the order.

Says the Rambam, that the nature is that people who grow up in a desert and in difficult circumstances, they have more courage, because he gets used to it. As he says, he gets used to it exactly, he has to come on his own, he doesn’t have a faucet where water comes out, he has to dig the water himself, nothing comes by itself, it doesn’t come on its own, a person is independent for himself, and he must exert himself, and so he acquires the trait of courage, the trait of strength, courage in Yiddish.

Says the Rambam, about this the Jews were forty years in the desert, this is the meaning of “lema’an anotcha,” all these verses that you mention, that this is how one could… one became more… how does one say it?

Discussion About Peshat and Derash

Contradiction in the Verses

Student: Yes, I know, this goes according to peshat, not according to derash. You told me that a war must be done according to peshat, not according to derash, yes? According to midrash everything was indeed in order, but that’s the midrashic Jews who had that level, the peshat Jews didn’t have…

Maggid Shiur: Okay.

Student: Yes, the verses, I’m telling you, there’s a contradiction in the verses, true. The same verse.

Maggid Shiur: The answer is that it depends on the perspective.

Student: Okay, okay, we spoke… You’re right, in our Parshat Hashavua group we spoke a long discussion about this, a great investigation as you understand, as you say, a contradiction in the verses themselves, it’s not just the peshat and the derash. But already, one can answer this, there are answers to this.

The Conclusion: Desert = Training for Courage

One Becomes a Man Himself

Maggid Shiur: But now, this is the Rambam’s explanation of the desert, that this is how one… I mean also, I want to say a chiddush.

Student: Yes, one became a young man, a person, a man himself.

Maggid Shiur: So, as he says, this is how when one trains soldiers, later in the Gemara, and everyone knows what one does to them, because one doesn’t give them, one sends them to camp, first one goes to camp. We get used to not needing a bed, we don’t need… It’s enough that there’s a board, one can sleep on it. Even in camp here, one can’t… There are air conditions, true, but it’s not a big deal anymore. In short, one learns that one can and must, and so a person becomes more.

I mean, I want to say even an interesting chiddush. I mean that… I want to catch from last night, perhaps we’ll begin to agree. I mean that this is the meaning of Parshat Avot. In Parshat Eikev and in Parshat Ha’azinu it says that there’s a cycle, yes? What is the cycle of Jewish history, or perhaps of history in general of people?

The cycle is that it goes hard, one works hard, it’s a desert. Then one has strength, one has courage, and one fights, and one must have with the Almighty also.

Digression: Emunah and Bitachon

One also has something to do with this, one must make another shiur that’s connected with emunah. Emunah doesn’t mean that one sleeps, but Chizkiyahu in his illness had such emunah that one sleeps and the Almighty does. Usually emunah means that one does and the Almighty helps, but first there’s bitachon. Much greater emunah is one who does and he takes the risk that the Almighty will help him, than one who says, the Almighty said “va’Hashem hatov be’einav ya’aseh.” Or one will win the war.

What will the Almighty do? A verse, yes, where’s the king? “Chazak ve’chazak be’ad ameinu u’be’ad arei Elokeinu va’Hashem hatov be’einav ya’aseh.” Is it said like that? It’s another verse, where’s the king that let’s say for my perhaps, he said.

Student: Yes, yes, yes, that’s an extreme story.

Maggid Shiur: But the… the verse in Sefer Shmuel says, did David HaMelech say it? Yoav perhaps? Shmuel Beit Yud. It’s a verse, it’s a verse.

Student: Yes, yes, that’s what he’s talking about.

Maggid Shiur: But there’s a verse, it’s Yoav. It’s a verse from Yoav, Yoav. Yoav, the general of David’s army. There was a situation, a very difficult situation. He said “chazakah,” he gave a speech to his brother, he said to Avishai, he wants to go here, he wants to go there. “Chazakah,” from this “chazakah be’ad ameinu u’be’ad arei Elokeinu, va’Hashem ya’aseh hatov be’einav.” The Almighty will do… Okay, this is also a certain emunah, because if not he would have run away, he went, he held that his role is to believe in the thing.

Okay, I mean just back, I just want a regular thing. He doesn’t say, he wants yes. But he knows that the situation is lost. If he didn’t want anything at all, he wouldn’t have gone to war, let the Almighty say, that’s Chizkiyahu, he wants, it doesn’t concern him. He wants yes, but… Anyway, that means, yes, night, no, no, so that’s what the speech has, we always meant, I always meant that the verse that says “ve’achalta ve’savata ve’romam avecha ve’shachachta ve’yishmein Yeshurun vayivat,” I always made that this is a problem of desires.

The Core Chiddush: “Ve’achalta Ve’savata” – Not Desire, But Cowardice

As we have I mean my rabbi explained to me in the room. One becomes a great ba’al ta’avah, one forgets the Almighty, one becomes a ba’al ga’avah, “kochi ve’otzem yadi,” the whole speech. Now I understand, desire isn’t the discussion. It’s not true, I’ll explain better, it’s not true that they have too much money makes a person.

I’m not learning truth, I said a shiur two weeks ago, and one refutes this, that because we live in Boro Park and there are in the grocery thirty thousand other foods, we are greater ba’alei ta’avot. There were ba’alei ta’avot is something for other reasons. Not about this.

Student: Who says that?

Maggid Shiur: That was a shiur on the fifteenth of Av, when remember? This transgresses the verse, “osher asher natato amado,” “osher natati min ha’eitz vayochal,” it’s ingratitude. If there are thirty thousand foods there, one must make thirty thousand blessings. And it can be that the Yerushalmi says that one transgresses on every fruit, perhaps also every vegetable, I don’t know, perhaps it’s poison. I don’t know, he sees the thing, but he can be. Anyway, once a year, once a lifetime, I don’t know.

In short, rather what, very good. I mean that I learned falsely until now the peshat. It has nothing to do with the trait of desire, also not with the trait of pride. I know, the Semag said that it’s pride, one must understand better all these things. I mean that the simple peshat in the verse, as I understand from the Rambam and from all the places, the simple peshat says something else.

Because the nature of man is not that when he has all kinds of things, that “batim mele’im kol tuv,” he becomes a ba’al ta’avah. It can be that he becomes a ba’al ta’avah, we’ll soon speak, I’m not sure about this, because I’ll give you the distinction why I mean that he’s not specifically a ba’al ta’avah.

What he becomes is a coward, a coward. How does one say a coward in Yiddish? The opposite of one who has courage. How does one say?

Student: A weakling, a little tzaddik, nu?

Maggid Shiur: In short, I don’t know how he calls it. A softie? Perhaps, I don’t know. In the verse in last week’s portion it’s called “ish yarei ve’rach halevav.” Yes, that’s the meaning.

Ibn Khaldun’s Cycle Theory

Okay, let me… I’m already at the stage where I want to finish my shiur. So, I hold this. It appears that the simple peshat in the verse and in the matter is not that one becomes a ba’al ta’avah or a ba’al ga’avah, but that one becomes an “ish yarei ve’rach halevav.” And this is indeed the nature. A person becomes all comfortable, you forget that sometimes one must exert oneself.

And about this, it’s known, this was a gentile, what was his name the gentile that the Rambam brings about this, the Muslim historian? Ibn Khaldun.

Student: Ibn Khaldun.

Maggid Shiur: Ibn Khaldun wrote a famous book that explains how history works. Before one says he’s still according to Parshat Ha’azinu, according to those who understand here, he was a bit before the Rambam, the Rambam brings him I think. He was in the period, and he explains how all of history works.

One sees, and whoever looks at the news today can also see it, it’s a very normal thing, one sees that every few generations, every few hundred years, I don’t know, every period of time, there are other kingdoms that take over the whole world. And later they become more comfortable, and a second one takes over from them.

He says that this is the order of things. There are people who live in the desert, they must exert themselves. Sometimes it was the Arabs in the time of Muhammad, before that it was the Mongols, and after that it was the Romans. When they began they were all hard people, they exerted themselves a lot. And in the time that they went hard, they became strong heroes, they learned. I don’t know, let’s say in short, they became very destroyed.

The Distinction: Comfort, Not Pleasures

And on the other hand, whom did one destroy? All kinds of such settled dwellers securely, as “am shoket u’voteiach,” like the dwellers of Leshem there in Persia, such comfortable people who have, the main thing for them is comfort, they can be with pleasures, but the problem isn’t the pleasures, the problem is the comfort, the love of courage.

That means, there’s already nothing, he has no self-sacrifice for anything, nothing is important. His whole life becomes that it should go smoothly, it should go well for him his desires.

Student: What? Nu, individualistic isn’t specifically that, and the hero is also recognized as an individual, like David went with Goliath alone.

Maggid Shiur: Yes yes, it’s more like a sleepiness, a drowsiness. He becomes drowsy, he becomes… One can say, it has to do with hedonism, and one becomes soft for pleasures. But I say, the wrong here isn’t the pursuit of pleasure, the wrong is the pursuit of comfort. Not the same thing.

And later, every few generations come a few people who have nothing, he can live for four years in a cave and there that. Indeed, and you see that he has the courage, he’ll die, he’ll sacrifice himself a thousand times over, and nothing helps, he still stands. Why? Because he has the strength of courage. He called it doing jobs, so Arabic.

And so it changes, because this cycle, one can try, sometimes comes a war, one learns yes to fight. In short, one can do teshuvah.

Discussion: Application to Jewish History

Student: The Jews were yes, the Jews are my…

Maggid Shiur: No, correct, correct, that’s exactly the point. The Jews, if you go back, all the way, to I know, they are David HaMelech, I know, when one conquered Eretz Yisrael, they were the… exactly, because one became comfortable.

Student: Why now?

Maggid Shiur: Not true, not true, my dear, one came back. First was… what do you do with the Chashmonaim?

Student: A bit.

Maggid Shiur: We make Chanukah in honor of this, they were “be’yad chalashim,” we few were weak in reality, but were with courage. That’s indeed the point.

Student: No, it’s not true, always.

Maggid Shiur: Okay, what comes the Spaniards? Let’s talk history. I’m telling you a Torah.

Student: Yes, what?

Maggid Shiur: I hear here a point, because Shabbat wasn’t until with the Rebbe. True about Judaism, by the way. There are people who become comfortable that Judaism goes easily, and then one loses it because comes another who has the courage. Then becomes a generation that it’s hard for Judaism. Who remains a frum Jew? The one who is a hero. It repeats cyclically. True, the spirituality is also the same especially.

Comfort vs. Courage

I wondered, because he wanted the Rav to go with a wheelchair, and he didn’t want that rich people used to be carried. It doesn’t look like a… I know that one says for him, he’ll be a lazy good for nothing. And then I know that Julius, all great kings, the greatest fighters… But I caught myself that it indeed didn’t… When he had to fight, he ran like something. There was a certain… One sees that the comfort isn’t bad to be comfortable.

Student: No, no.

Maggid Shiur: But he has the trait in the place needed when it’s necessary. As I tell you you’re crazy. I want to explain something deeper. I want to stand so the parable… Let me finish, let me say further.

New Topic: Suffering as Training for Courage

So, it comes out that there’s another trait that’s related to the topic of suffering more. That means, to suffer, to live a life of suffering directly. It can be that it says in the Mishnah “chayei tzaar techiyeh” means without pleasure. I don’t know what means to torment oneself, I need simply, how do I mean. But there’s such a thing of living a life of suffering specifically, as he says, the Chashmonai who goes to live in a desert, but he can live in a desert, he also grew from there, he doesn’t hold any… He’s not used to… Like many times the shtetl people are much stronger soldiers than the city people, because the city is used to, that everything works, in the grocery there’s everything, and suddenly there isn’t, he’s not used to such a kind of life.

So the topic of suffering, the topic of specifically overcoming suffering, this trains a person indeed to a trait that’s called courage, a trait of bitachon you can call it, such a kind

The Distinction Between the Trait of Courage and the Trait of Abstinence: Courage Requires Suffering

All Traits Go Together – But Not in Practice

All deficiencies go together, all virtues go together. One can’t divide, the division is only theoretically. Yes, one can, but not in practice. One who is extremely a ba’al ta’avah is therefore not a hero, because to be a hero one needs self-sacrifice.

Question on the Tanya: Suffering Versus Death

Imagine, I saw someone already asks this question on the Tanya. It’s very interesting, because I saw, I made a search in the search in the search in Chabad.org, I saw that someone asked the question from the Tanya.

The Tanya says that one should make a kal vachomer, a few times he says such Torahs, that one of the things is that a person should remember that he makes in chapter 24, in that area, he says that one of the contemplations should make him, I’m indeed ready to sacrifice myself, it’s indeed a kal vachomer a small suffering that’s lighter than death sufferings. Yes, there’s the idolatry where he says the same Torah, but he also says it as a contemplation, that one should make this contemplation.

The Question of a Young Man on the Tanya

And I saw some young man wrote, the Lubavitchers have many discussions with him, he asks himself a strong question. Someone asked that… the thing or not I don’t know, but it speaks to this problem.

The Proper Measure of Pleasure and Pain: Knowledge, Money, and Shabbos

The Baal Taavah’s Pain is Proportional to His Pleasure

So in all sorts of ways, the baal taavah [one who pursues desires] has more pain from his eating. He is truly a strange creature, because he loves it so much, and the more he loves it, the harder it is, because the prevention of pleasure is for him a pain. Always, preventing pleasure is a certain pain.

Student: What? If it’s not lacking here, if so, that one doesn’t have it.

Instructor: But when it’s not there, when it’s just not there, that’s… no, you’re right, the second type he doesn’t have, but if he would do it, no, then he has it. If he is overcoming his evil inclination, if he is an honest Jew, he restrains himself, he feels bad, he restrains himself, in short, he has a portion. Yes, yes, but the Almighty, even a beinoni [intermediate person] from Tanya, when he overcomes what he has, he is inwardly a rasha [wicked person], because he loves it. Yes, he also has the pain.

So, this is an argument against the topic of being a baal taavah, that he thinks he has more pleasures, and therefore he also has more pain. In any case, the more pleasures he has, the more pain he has, because it’s literally this corresponding to that.

The Tzaddik’s Proper Measure of Pleasure

What about the tzaddik [righteous person]? The one who has the proper measure of pleasure, has the proper pleasure. It’s not only, I mean this way, one must think here, I haven’t seen this stated clearly, I’m thinking this myself. Not only that he, let’s say this way, if it was right that he has pleasure in the proper measure, he has pain in the proper measure. Perhaps it’s less, but it’s not nothing.

That is, you can even ask, for example, the Gemara speaks there about Palti ben Layish, he went and cried because they took away his wife. Simply, he cried because they took away his desire. The Gemara says, no, he was a tzaddik, he didn’t do anything, he cried over the mitzvah that was lost from him, he would have had overcoming the desire. Okay, one must understand if this fits with what we’re saying, because one shouldn’t have any desire at all, or there’s a situation of test, it’s not relevant.

The Proper Desire for a Wife

But what am I bringing out? That when a tzaddik doesn’t have his desire, it could be that there are things, it could be that it’s proper. A person has a wife, it’s proper he should have certain desire for her. But consequently, if it goes away, if he loses it, it must be sad, right? I don’t know, one must be sadder when the father dies than when the wife dies. It’s not so important. In any case, it’s only the thirty days of mourning. That’s the halacha [Jewish law]. Only for parents there are twelve months. Because one can, one has a solution. I’m not forgetting about the watch.

In short, so I know that there’s a part of the matter, someone will say I’m a tzaddik, why do I need a wife? I’m already speaking about his wife having died. This isn’t right. Yes, this is another perverted Torah, I know.

The Deeper Point: The Tzaddik Almost Never Has Such Pain

In any case, there is however a… I mean that there’s more of a deeper point, which explains that the tzaddik almost never has such pain. And I mean that this is practically so, because from this I want to judge favorably. Not only judge favorably, I mean that it’s correct. That we have, one of them, another reason, this is essentially another explanation of the two shiurim [lectures] back that we spoke about this or three, that we live in a world that is full of desires, one can make very many blessings, blessings over pleasures, thank God, and the whole problem why one doesn’t make blessings over pleasures, because blessings over pleasures have to do with daas [knowledge/awareness], and one had daas, but the next thing, one never has daas, one doesn’t know, one had daas, one didn’t have daas, and one didn’t have daas.

Practical Experience of Most People

We have access to very many desires. Everyone has access to much more desires than one could have imagined not so long ago even. So, one must consider that one is a great ba’al ta’avos (one ruled by desires). So, I hold this way: That we are regarding this a bunch of spoiled people and we do nothing, this is true. For this one should do teshuva (repent). This is what one would have said earlier. One must see to make life a bit harder for oneself. Harder, to accustom oneself. But one must do something, it’s not comfortable. As the coaches say, go out of the comfort zone, that’s one thing.

The Practical Experience of Most People

But regarding ta’avah (desire) I hold this way, I hold that most people, so I think that experience shows me, that most normal people, even when it goes and when he has money for Shabbos and it’s there and the grocery is open, he buys what’s there forever what he’s accustomed to. But if one week it’s not there, yes, he’ll miss it. If he usually has fish and he doesn’t have fish on Shabbos, he hasn’t even tasted fish. It’s a great thing, it says in the Mishnah, one must eat fish on Shabbos. Okay, he’ll miss it. But the other twenty-four foods, I don’t know. I think that most people, very many people, don’t have great suffering from this. Perhaps yes, perhaps I’m mistaken among refined Jews. But the people I know, I don’t see that they have suffering, the opposite suffering.

Because I think that this is more a sign, I want to think that more a sign, you say the ba’al ta’avah of whom one speaks, of whom the Rambam (Maimonides) speaks, of whom the Chasidic books speak, is, I said that the ba’al ta’avah is one who has more suffering, and it could be that the suffering is more a sign. Why? Because it’s going well. I even said that it could be… I want to say this even more. Listen.

Digression: Money, Charity from Non-Jews, and Blessing

Student: What? Please, I want to talk about money.

Instructor: Please. So I want to talk about money. Not only about this, I said earlier that money goes like this. First of all, today there are backers that we didn’t send here, it’s not a complaint. But secondly… However, I don’t know, let me continue.

True, I actually hold that from this eating, no, being satiated is not the problem that you should eat, not increasing is already the smaller one. I told my wife that she shouldn’t take it, because one gives strength to the sitra achra (the Other Side/forces of evil), you don’t throw it out the window, you leave it. But they already cut it anyway, no? I mean no, I still get the leftovers, it’s still refuse of Isaac’s orchard, and even more.

In short, in any case, I actually hold that it’s a problem, one gives strength, it’s a question of, it says “and they shall be ashamed, the harvest shall be broken,” one may not take any charity from non-Jews. If one can, true, only if one can, if they can’t, they can’t. They also, and they have yes charity, I don’t know, another kelipah (shell/husk – forces of impurity), I don’t know, a bit smaller kelipah, a bigger one, I don’t know.

In short, the story is, okay, this is another topic. It’s true, I have a tradition from a great tzaddik (righteous person), he says that the money that one takes, there’s no elixir of blessing, there’s no elixir of blessing in the money that one works for. Besides giving strength to the non-Jews, I don’t know, it’s not a normal thing. Anyway, but already, what will one do?

Student: I’m just saying, but working is work, he’s not giving charity, he’s giving, whatever, one works, I don’t understand, one may work, one may make money, on the contrary, it’s a little mitzvah, he still calls, whatever. The Rebbe says it’s a mitzvah, the Rebbe should make a distinction.

Instructor: Already, in short, what I want to say is that I think so, you must understand this way, there is indeed a halachah (Jewish law), and one learns in the laws of Shabbos this way, and one says that how much is proper to enjoy, there is also dependent on how much money a person has.

Halachah from the Rambam: The Proper Measure in Expenditures

One who says that he doesn’t go with the topic of not having pleasure, as you say, he shouldn’t have pleasure at all, only what is necessary, that’s another level. If one speaks of the Rambam’s level, it means, the person must enjoy himself according to what is fitting for him. There’s even a Gemara, and the Rambam rules it in the Laws of Character Traits, “A person should always eat less than what he has, dress according to what he has, and give to his wife and children more than what he has.”

This is a halachah, whether a halachah in economics, how a person must manage his money, his budget, but I think it’s also a halachah in abstinence. I think it says in the Laws of Character Traits, I don’t know if one can be precise where it says exactly, but it says that there is a proper person, it’s not proper. To spend more money than one has on eating. This is piggishness. It’s piggishness, not only foolish for the money. From where is there a proof that for the wife it’s a mitzvah to spend more money? That means, one should borrow, one should get into debt, one should steal, but somewhere one should exert oneself. He’ll borrow, he’ll make some calculation. For the wife and children it’s a mitzvah to exert oneself. For one’s own eating, it’s not a sin, it’s only a pig, one is an addict, he gives him more money than he has for his eating.

For a person’s own clothing, also it’s a middle path, according to what is fitting for him, according to what he has yes. In short, the wife on the credit card, the eating on the last weekly paycheck, and the coat from this week. Something like that, do you understand? Okay, fine.

Shabbos: The Legitimate Place for Pleasure

So, it was said yesterday that the institutions sometimes say that people go on vacation and one may not enjoy oneself. And so on. One must say that it’s actually true that I don’t agree, this doesn’t come with Rosh Hashanah. If this goes out for the wife, it’s a halachah in the Gemara that one must give more money than one has. So I tell him that I’m obligated for my wife, I would indeed do it.

No, I only mean to bring out that when a person, when there is, again, if you want to be engaged in very sharp abstinence I’m not speaking, but when there is yes, when there is, he has a buck and he can afford it as you say, it’s in honor of Shabbos. Again, the same thing, in honor of Shabbos is a mitzvah, and this is also a sort of responsibility. During the week he’s a presser, he eats a huge meal, on Shabbos he’s not. Why? In honor of Shabbos. Okay, and on this there are also great deep intentions.

But what’s the simple meaning? The simple meaning is that Shabbos is a day of pleasure, it’s a day of rest, and in the middle of the week you’ll eat a big meal, that you won’t be able to work afterwards. Not be able to learn, not be able to work. Shabbos is a time that’s made from this, it’s a certain mitzvah. The Rambam says, the simple reason for Shabbos is that a Jew should have pleasure a seventh of his life. This is the benefit to the body of Shabbos. There is benefit to the soul in the matter of faith and other things.

The Da’as Determines the Proper Measure

So this is the measure. It says that if one has, it’s proper to enjoy oneself. But if he doesn’t have, yes, this week he doesn’t have money to buy the second piece of kugel. It’s not about this that he should have suffering, because why did he have it last week? This is your da’as (understanding/mindset), the da’as that is decisive what is the proper amount of pleasure, says it, when one has, and it’s Shabbos, one buys a bigger piece than today. And the same da’as says, when one doesn’t have, one doesn’t buy, and he doesn’t want.

I think this is a normal thing, everyone has his level, what is a bit more he’s jealous. But as Ibn Ezra says, much more, I don’t know anyone. Yesterday they said, he has yes the desire, already, I’ll do it. But I don’t know anyone, it’s the desire to have a why not? It would have been very tasty. Only great rebbes have the desire, because he can borrow from the wealthy person.

But most people, very well, apart from exceptional people, a normal young man, even if he doesn’t consider himself a great ascetic, a great abstainer, why doesn’t he have the desire? It would have been tasty, no one says it wouldn’t have been tasty. Why? Because it costs so much money. Why does this show? Because it costs very expensive. And the gas goes up, so he understands, he doesn’t have money to fill the gas in his tank in his car, how will he fill a whole airplane? Do you understand? It’s not relevant.

The Desire Isn’t There When One Understands It’s Not Applicable

But what I mean to bring out is, and you don’t have the desire, not that you’re overcoming. Not when you say, I would have thought to put on my credit card the private jet, I heard a lecture that it’s not good to put things on credit card, I won’t put on credit card, I have a bit of financial discipline. No, you don’t have the desire at all.

I’m just bringing out that this is whether in the topic of proper conduct of frugality, whatever, the topic of money, but even in the topic of desire, you don’t even have the desire. Why not? Because you understand that it’s not for you. If you’ll be a billionaire, perhaps it will yes be proper for you to have a private jet? You’ll do charity with it, you’ll transport rescue organizations with it, I don’t know what. It could be that it’s not forbidden. If one has the money and it doesn’t go out of his… It doesn’t disturb him in his pocket, perhaps he may, perhaps he must, perhaps it’s a mitzvah. I don’t know.

Most people don’t even have that desire. I don’t have that desire. Ten million dollars? I can imagine ten hundred million dollars. I don’t know what it is. The three ways costs more than a hundred million dollars. I mean it’s very expensive. I checked.

The Measure of Abstinence Versus the Measure of Desire: A Practical Comparison

The Abstainer Has Only Pleasure Without Suffering

Instructor:

No, but you understand, yes, one can go a hundred million dollars, but it costs every year twenty million dollars. Yes, you must be able to afford it. I can also buy, one can also buy… In short, one must be very rich. It’s a certain level, in order to be such a person who even has the desire one must be a great wealthy person, and afterwards, in order that it should actually be able to go, it must be an even greater wealthy person.

But I’m just bringing out that a part of the topic of how much desire you have is a normal thing. A normal person doesn’t have any desire for how many millions it is. The problem also makes sense, let’s say last week he yes could afford it, true, he must get used to it, but afterwards this week he doesn’t have money to buy the third piece of meat that he bought last week for Shabbos, he won’t have desire for it, not he’ll say I would have strongly wanted, but unfortunately, it hurts me because I don’t have money.

There is such a thing, there is also such a thing, a more normal thing, or a more refined person, or he works on himself, he didn’t have the desire either.

Student:

Listen. Okay. One must have an extra hundred thousand dollars a month. You catch? It’s not enough to have a hundred thousand dollars. That should be the pocket change. Because… Ah, in short. In short, a quarter million or so a month. And in short…

Instructor:

Yes, but that should be idle. The money must be idle, true? If the money must… Do you understand what I’m saying, it’s smoothness. So in short, it’s not relevant, it’s not for me, not for you. Perhaps another incarnation.

What I want to bring out is, it comes out that he has the pleasure when he has it, when it’s appropriate, when he can afford it, when it’s a part of his what is fitting for him, each person should sanctify the Sabbath according to what is fitting for them, everyone should arrange that it’s Shabbos according to what’s fitting for him, then he enjoys it, but when it’s not fitting for him and he doesn’t have it, he doesn’t have any suffering.

So the Jew who has a proper measure of abstinence, he has only pleasure, he has only the side of gain and not the side of loss.

The Ba’al Ta’avah – Unlimited Suffering

The ba’al ta’avah, now think the opposite, what is a ba’al ta’avah? A ba’al ta’avah, he also has levels of how big a ba’al ta’avah, but a ba’al ta’avah is one who has no limit, one can go deeper into this. Desire is one who wants everything that’s possible, that’s indeed the meaning of a ba’al ta’avah. How much can one enjoy? I want to enjoy. Always he wants more.

Yes, he indeed has a rule, if he has one hundred, he wants two hundred, no person dies with even half his desires fulfilled, this is the definition of ba’al ta’avah. The moment it’s limited, he already stops at a… As that one says, one goes up to the price where the limit is.

But a ba’al ta’avah, or the measure of desire that every person has a certain this measure, is unlimited. Every thing that’s tasty, every thing that’s pleasure, he wants.

It comes out that he also has how much suffering? Endless. It’s very sad. All things that he could have but you have and it disturbs him. There would be no limit. What? Everything is missing for him. It would hurt him. He couldn’t from time. He couldn’t from time. He couldn’t from time.

Student:

No, he’s indeed a normal person, he doesn’t want. He should work. He doesn’t work off any travel, if it’s missing for him, he doesn’t have time.

Instructor:

So, anyway, it stands that it should come out that the more… I think that if one wants what in the books, he should check how much it disturbs him when the store doesn’t have the milk that he was used to, I don’t know what.

Practical Measure: How Does One Measure Oneself?

When there isn’t in the study hall the red milk for the coffee, one must use other milk, how strongly, how many seconds it disturbs him. This is a better example from the books when there is, one says, a Chasidic young man is there, why would I bother to take that? There’s indeed no difference. There is yes a difference, and there’s indeed why there’s indeed a sin, one knows that there is a halachah that one must put salt on the bread when one makes a blessing, because it’s not an honor for the blessing to have plain bread, yes?

And regarding this, if one puts a dip one is even more fulfilling the obligation. It’s an honor for the blessing, one eats a good piece of challah for the hamotzi. So this is indeed a mitzvah, but when it’s not there, he doesn’t have exactly the salt or the this, it doesn’t disturb him.

So there lies the overcoming of desire, on this there will be the same levels, one who works on most, one who is already refined, there it doesn’t disturb him at all.

Conclusion Regarding Most People

But you understand, it turns out that most people are not ba’alei ta’avah (people ruled by desire), because they don’t have something great that they lack. But what is true, most people indeed are, they are pachdanim (fearful people), they don’t have middas hagevurah (the character trait of courage/strength), that is a different trait that one must work on extremely.

Transition to Middas HaGevurah – Preview After Yom Tov

And that is the next trait, yes, but after yom tov (holiday), be’ezras Hashem (with God’s help). It’s coming after yom tov, I need to speak a lot. I still have a few… No, lemoshal (for example), going into a sukkah (the temporary dwelling used during the festival of Sukkos), I gave an entire lecture last year. Sukkos (the Festival of Tabernacles) is the inyan (concept) of middas hagevurah. It says that the entire month is indeed middas hagevurah. But Yaakov (the patriarch Jacob), a sukkah is al pi kabbalah (according to Kabbalah/Jewish mysticism), is more that side.

And on Sukkos one must be a person. But what is the sukkah? A sukkah, everyone builds a sukkah, and one goes out a bit, “betzila demeheimnusa” (in the shade of faith), not about desires, more about what one must do. Regarding a sukkah, it is something that one must do oneself, “mitzvah bo yoser mishelucho” (it is a greater mitzvah to do it oneself than through an agent). What? One doesn’t have the third cushion, one has no suffering.

Digression: Mitztaer Patur Min HaSukkah

So that brings us to the previous thing we spoke about, the beginning of the lecture, that I don’t know if that is like a ta’avah (desire), I don’t know what the law is of “mitztaer patur min hasukkah” (one who is suffering is exempt from the sukkah). One must ask the Rambam (Maimonides).

Student:

Yes, it’s also. Has suffering.

Maggid Shiur:

But that is lechatchilah (ideally, from the outset) something shel dochak veshel tza’ar (of difficulty and suffering). I don’t know what blessing does one make on the air conditioner? “Mashiv haru’ach” (who makes the wind blow – a phrase from the Amidah prayer).

Student:

Yes, I don’t know.

Maggid Shiur:

It’s a different sort of thing. Do you remember that we said that the ta’anugim (pleasures) that we’re mainly talking about are the devarim shenichnesim laguf (things that enter the body), such as achilah umishgal (eating and sexual relations). That is what the Rambam truly means meichush hamisush (from the sense of touch). All other things, once there was no concern about air conditioning. I don’t know what one thinks about this truly.

Discussion: Is Air Conditioning a Ta’avah?

Student:

I don’t know. Is air conditioning a ta’avah?

Maggid Shiur:

Yes! Not at all, who had the salon melech (royal salon)? Pharaoh! I don’t know, I would have thought that it can still do something with a trait, I want to begin. It seems to me that it has less than the middas hata’avah (trait of desire), but something else, comfort, it also has to do with comfort, here I am maskim (agreeing). I hold that it is good for a person to accustom himself, not to be “spoiled,” because everything must be… But I say again, it has to do with what happens. There are certain people for whom it is honor, and one sees that it is terrible for him.

Story with the Stanislaw Rebbe

No, there was a rebbe who came to Boro Park years ago, he comes from Stanislaw, he had a small shul in a basement, and I’m a bachur’l (young student), I went to all the rebbes. I come to the rebbes, and he came out in the basement, the door was opened, it was a freezing winter, and they said that the rebbe is conducting his tish (Chassidic gathering), he sits right next to the door.

The door was opened, there came in… the rebbe is malei yir’aso ufachduso (full of awe and fear) from a small bachur, he looked with such a… ke’ilu (as if) why am I making him so cold? And a few years later he spoke about Shabbos, and about Shabbos one has no… he had no suffering at all, and it’s pleasure in everything… and it’s already years later, he is already today a great rebbe, I don’t know…

I looked crazy at a small bachur, I really looked like that… with such severity, and all the chassidim (Chassidic followers) were like… ke’ilu who opened the door? And I understood indeed that he is such a refined Jew that it is truly very cold for him, but… I don’t know if that is being a ba’al ta’avos.

Perhaps, I tell you that there is certainly a proper trait regarding this, but I don’t know, it’s hard for me to call it ta’avos.

Closing Remark

Look, I have everything, each thing a person looks at the person that he knows. All the tzaddikim (righteous people) that I know, I’m talking about people who work on themselves. Have they encountered anyone who doesn’t hold with air conditioning. I mean, here what people, I say, people also wake… what was it then? The same thing, I agree that it should be calmer.

Student:

Does he jump?

Maggid Shiur:

I don’t know. I agree, but that is not…