Control of Desires as a Fundamental Element in Education | Eight Chapters, Chapter 4 (Auto Translated) | תמלול וסיכום מתורגם

Rabbi Shlomo Karliner and the True Meaning of “Hachna’as HaGuf”

Opening: The Story of Rabbi Shlomo Karliner as a Three-and-a-Half-Year-Old Child

The Story and Biographical Questions

Instructor: There was a story with the holy Rabbi Shlomo Karliner, HaRav HaKadosh HaR”Sh MiKarlin, that once he was three and a half years old.

Rabbi Shlomo Karliner, when did his father pass away? I don’t know. Was his father a Chassidic Jew? Rabbi Shlomo Karliner? I don’t know. He was still before Chassidus, it doesn’t make any sense.

No, a story from three and a half years old must be that he grew up that way, or it’s another story that didn’t happen. Okay. Why couldn’t they tell that the story was when he was seventeen? Why do they need to add a detail that…

Anyway, was it his yahrzeit? His yahrzeit was just now, yes, the 22nd of Tammuz, yesterday, one. Yes.

Digression: Rabbi Shlomo Karliner’s Yahrzeit and Death

And he was killed, nebach. Chassidim say al kiddush Hashem. I don’t know if some drunk just shot him. Anyway.

Student: What?

Instructor: Yes, a gentile shot him.

Student: Shabbos, no?

Instructor: Yes. He was a Cossack, he shot him. Chassidim, they tried to misil-li-li. Yes. But he wasn’t at war, it wasn’t kiddush Hashem. It was just a gentile who shot him. Umm… nebach. Shivim kedumah. Sad situation. Anyway. It’s very sad, nebach.

This is our galus, we’re now speaking about the tekufah that we speak of the galus.

Karliner Custom: Shehecheyanu on the 22nd of Tammuz

In Karlin it’s mekubal that on Rabbi Shalom Karliner’s yahrzeit one may make Shehecheyanu, you know? One day becomes metaken.

There’s a rayah that it says in Rashi that there are 21 days between Shivah Asar B’Tammuz and Tishah B’Av, and here it makes 22 days. On the contrary, Rashi meant the fast itself is included. But anyway, they say, from this it’s mashma that there’s one day that isn’t. They didn’t know which day it isn’t, because Rabbi Shlomo Karliner was niftar, and they discovered that it means the 22nd of Tammuz.

But among Karliners there’s a minhag to make a simchah. It’s not an inyan that one makes simchahs on the Rebbe. Anyway, it’s just a minhag from the… I don’t remember when it says in the Arizal, but it comes from the Ashkenazic minhag.

The Story Itself: The Roll and the Crying

Okay, anyway, Rabbi Shlomo Karliner was three and a half years old. He was holding a roll, it says lachmanyah, I don’t know what the person writes in Hebrew. He was holding a roll, and then he’s holding it and he was crying. There’s an interesting story.

So they asked, why is he crying? What’s the story? He said that he’s hungry. They asked, well, here’s the roll already. He said, yes, but he heard from his Rebbe that what one wants, one may not, he can’t eat. And he wants to eat. Yes. What one wants, one doesn’t do. So he can’t eat. So says the holy Reb Shlomo Karliner.

Student: So when did he ever eat in the end?

Instructor: I’m now asking myself truly. A little boy was very confused. He doesn’t want. He’s hungry. What comes in? And he’s hungry. He’s hungry. Yes. This pained him, he’s hungry, he wouldn’t be able to eat, because he wants to eat. It was conflicted. I don’t know.

And here we see how our Rebbes, even when they were three and a half, already didn’t want to do what their body wants.

Rabbi Shalom Noach’s Interpretation: Psychological Manipulation for “Hachna’as HaChomer”

Bekitzur, memeilah Rabbi Shalom Noach says that this was the eitzah, apparently he heard this from someone, and he said more on the Torah itself. This is the eitzah.

Because there’s something called hachna’as hachomer, about this one must torture the body, but they’re too weak to torture the body, but not too weak to do psychological manipulation on people, and they twist a head and tell a little boy that he may not eat a roll that he wants. Memeilah through this one breaks the body, and afterwards the neshamah will shine.

This is today’s piece of Torah already enough in the Nesivos Shalom for today. Do you understand the nekudah? No.

The Instructor’s Critical Reaction

I would say the same shiur, I can yes be makdim zayn the Nesivos Shalom, because I want to stand. I would say the same shiur, and if I believed in this, I would even say that he meant this, I’m afraid that he didn’t mean this. Or he didn’t mean anything, I have no idea why people write things that are so pointless.

But maybe he was sincere. I think he was a sincere person. One can’t always know. In any case, I would say the story exactly the opposite, yes?

The Beis Yosef and the True Meaning of “Hachna’as HaYetzer”

Critique of the “Stone-Carrying” Story

That whoever told the story about the Beis Yosef, is just giving proper lashon hara, it makes no sense to say that the Beis Yosef carried a sack of stones on his neck because it’s machnia zayn lehachni’a orfo.

What Actually Says in Sefer Maggid Meisharim

By the way, and this is really, I’m ready years this is plainly a lie, when in the holy sefer in the Beis Yosef’s, how is it called, diary, called Sefer Maggid Meisharim, it says that the maggid told him that he should learn every day a bit of Chovos HaLevavos, kedei lehachni’a yitzro.

And one also sees, in that sefer one also sees that he was very strongly makpid on the noyse of ta’anugim gashmiyim, and his malach, his Rebbe, his maggid, very strongly warned him and told him against the…

It says there like this, I don’t remember the numbers, he says, yesterday at the seudah you drank fourteen glasses of wine, it’s too much, twelve is enough. I don’t remember the numbers. I don’t remember, one must look it up inside, if I remember the numbers that he says.

Student: No, it wasn’t any seltzer.

Instructor: Yes, it wasn’t any seltzer, it wasn’t any glasses like here. Yes, I don’t know exactly what they drank. It wasn’t Snapple back then.

The Reason: Bitul Torah, Not Physical Pain

I’ll tell you, it’s meant you’re overeating, not that it told him to fast and collapse, but he warned him that he ate two pieces instead of one moment, such sorts of things are written there.

But the reason why it says is because it’s a bitul Torah, because it’s a hefsek from learning, because a Jew must be… his whole thing from the maggid was that he didn’t want to be mesi’ach da’as from Mishnayos. From devekus, from Torah, whatever. And this is hesech hada’as. Not there long, this is the thinking about it. It’s not just the time, I heard something about time.

Conclusion: “Hachna’as HaYetzer” = Learning Chovos HaLevavos

So, the language that the Beis Yosef had a minhag every day to do things, subdue, nu, yitzro, is true, it says in his hanhagos, but this is learning Chovos HaLevavos, it wasn’t to carry stones, it’s oyf mechilah.

So this I would say, I would say the same shiur, I very much love the two stories, because it brings out very well the distinction and the maskana.

The Main Thesis: “Breaking the Body” Doesn’t Mean the Physical Body

Question and Answer

Student: Would you mean that breaking the body means one doesn’t stone?

Instructor: When one says breaking the body, one doesn’t mean the body. A person with a broken foot, it’s not…

Example: Balaam’s Eye

There’s such a Torah, and do you know the Torah? Ne’imah gavar sheshtum ayin. Why was Rabbi Yishmael blind in one eye? So they say, yes? There’s a pshat in sheshtum ayin. It’s probably not the simple pshat, but one of the pshats.

Some Chassidic Jew said that he always wondered how Balaam could have ruach hakodesh. Everyone knows that in order to have ruach hakodesh one must have pure eyes, not look where one may not. How can it be? He said that he caught on, one eye he couldn’t see. So when that eye he couldn’t see, he couldn’t see any aveiros. So there he could see.

Example: The Ruzhiner’s Vort

So again, this is a similar thought that the one who came to the Ruzhiner said that he had ruach hakodesh, he already didn’t speak for forty days. He told him that he can think that the horse also didn’t speak for forty days, and he also has ruach hakodesh, you understand?

So, it makes no sense, lechorah, right? Maybe there’s a way, I’m not saying, one must leave room, perhaps there’s a way to understand this.

The Essential Principle

Bifshitus, to break the body in the sense of the physical body is a waste of time. It’s made to work, and if it doesn’t work, usually one becomes a worse person, not a better person, or at least… it could be that there’s ways for it to help you become better, but not directly because of breaking it.

Example: Broken Foot and Talmid Chacham in Prison

Did I say it? It can be that you say that a person who is broken in his foot can’t go out, he can’t go walking in places, he has nothing to do except look at the computer. Okay, you have a problem. But bekitzur, he has nothing to do but learn a sefer, and okay, he’ll become a talmid chacham.

Like they say, someone is in jail. There were people, there were young men who became talmidei chachamim from being in jail, you know? I don’t have what to do there, learn, okay. One sits down to learn, no one can disturb, the wife can’t say one must do something.

There was a Jew, a talmid chacham, he was put by whom, some Litvak. He sat three years ago, he was a whole maggid shiur. Yes, yes, it happens today too. Yes. There was some Litvak who put him in for some reason, I don’t remember why. He holds that every Jew should go to tefisah for at least two months. He can learn, he doesn’t disturb, no one disturbs.

Conclusion: Indirect Help, Not Direct

Bekitzur, yes, in that sense I understand, that sometimes you say that a person is sick, sometimes, you know, it cuts him off from certain bad habits that he had, bad friends, I know what. Yes, but this isn’t the theory that he’s thinking, and not because he breaks his body, it’s plainly because it’s a way that he can’t, and when one can’t, he has only a breirah. Okay.

Rabbi Shlomo Karliner’s Vort Begins to Make Sense

But but when he speaks what Rabbi Shlomo Karliner says, it begins yes to make sense. I make chizuk from it, but it only begins yes to make sense. That if we speak of body, we speak of what he wants, or what he loves. Right? And now we need to begin to understand how what this means, right?

Rabbi Pinchas of Koretz and the Baal Shem Tov’s Correction

I forgot to say by the… Rabbi Shlomo Karliner himself said why he doesn’t want?

Student: Why himself?

Instructor: Yes, yes, yes. Rabbi Pinchas of Koretz said that he learned with the Maggid Meisharim, the thing that I said earlier that one may not drink and eat, enjoy eating too much. He said that when he was young he tried to follow the way of the sefer and he became weak. Afterwards he caught on, or he came to the Baal Shem Tov, and the Baal Shem Tov says that it’s not right.

But he caught on that probably this is the problem, that the maggid was a malach. What does a malach understand about eating and drinking? If he would have been a person, he would have understood that there’s a way of yes eating. Malach? Ah? And this week actually Maor Einayim.

Student: So you weren’t a malach?

Instructor: No, this week is Maor Einayim against the angels.

Summary and Transition

Okay, rabbosai. I want to get to the serious discussion that we have here about this, but only if we’ll be able. But these are all the all stories that are truly connected. I don’t mean that it’s not connected. I truly hold that all these Chassidic sefarim, Chassidic stories will bring out the sort of problems that we have here, right? And what is the problem that we have here and remember?

Overcoming Desire as a General Trait: Two Methods for Understanding the Foundation

Continuation: Story of the Maggid of Mezritch and the Baal Shem Tov

And he said that when he was young he tried to follow the way of that sefer and he became weak. Afterwards he caught on, or he came to the Baal Shem Tov, and the Baal Shem Tov told him that it’s not right. But he caught on that probably the problem is that the maggid was a malach. What does a malach understand about eating and drinking? If he would have been a person, he would have understood that there’s a way of an inyan of eating.

Presenting the Central Problem

Okay, rabbosai, I want to get to the serious discussion that we have here about this, if we’ll be able. But this is, all these all stories are truly connected. I don’t mean that it’s not connected. I truly hold that all these Chassidic sefarim, Chassidic stories, bring out the… the sort of problems that we have here, right?

What is the problem that we have here? Do you remember? What is the problem that we have here? Last week they tried to get to the problem, they didn’t get there, they touched on something before that. Ah? The problem is… there are many problems.

Defining the Problem: The Trait That Has No Positive Name

The problem is like this, that there’s something a good middah that’s called not being a baal taavah. Sadly, there’s no word, a positive word for this in Yiddish, as far as I know. And… and… and no one knows what this is. I’m quite sure that no one knows what this is. And it can be people do it, can be people don’t do it, but no one knows what this is.

And this is one of the problems. One doesn’t know what it is, perhaps one does it, one feels just bad because one feels something else. But perhaps one can’t do it, because one doesn’t know what something is, one can very hard do it. Or perhaps one confuses it with many other things, and therefore… it becomes a thing to a big thing, it becomes too hard, it’s such a “tafasta merubah lo tafasta” situation. Yes, all these problems are here, what we claim. Right? Yes? If someone doesn’t explain for example what one wanted it at all.

The Plan: Divisions and Precise Definitions

So, we claim that one can very well divide the thing, one can make many distinctions, one can make two such dinim, and arrive at what the middah is actually about and what it is actually precisely, and then one will understand a bit if one can do it or how much one can do it and so forth. Right, so we say? I mean that so we say. Yes, this is the program.

Organizational Notes

Now, I don’t remember if I spoke about this at all last week. I’ve forgotten now what I spoke about last week. No one was here, all the Jews from here weren’t here last week. There’s a problem here.

I want to explain the sort of language that the Sefer Shalom speaks, for example. There’s a problem here that isn’t a problem. There’s like a dispute or two levels or two approaches that need to be very clearly brought out. Last week we learned the piece from R’ Yosef Gikatilla, the Iggeret HaKodesh [The Holy Letter], and discussed whether he’s right and how much he’s right and how much not. Yes, so not from the Ramban [Nachmanides]. One person who certainly didn’t write it is the Ramban. But someone else. He says, eh, it’s not my… this is history, politics, it makes no difference. Actually yes… okay, I just remembered. Okay, so it’s connected. I want to say the most possible thing. One should try to understand as much as one can. If one can’t, the Almighty will tell me what we don’t understand.

Overcoming Desire as a General Trait

Defining the General Nature

And the thing is like this. That the thing we call not being a ba’al ta’avah [master of desire], as we already spoke about this last week I think, is a more general thing, right? It is in a certain sense, perhaps every trait can be said this way if one wants very strongly, but certainly this trait, and very often it becomes a name for all of humanity, for all goodness, for the whole sort of thing that’s called a good person.

One can say that a good person is one who is not noteh achar haguf [inclined after the body]. So there is a language that we learn, whoever learns Chassidic works certainly encounters such language, and very often very explicitly, which comes out, not like the Rav, or only halfway like Rav Berzovsky [possibly Rabbi Shalom Noach Berezovsky, the Slonimer Rebbe] says, right? It comes out that the whole thing of Judaism is to be less of a ba’al ta’avah. Right? Because the whole thing of humanity is the better way for us.

We say, we already spoke, I mean that at the beginning of the shiur last week they tried to show that we also speak this way, and that this language makes sense for us. Now, we need to think in what way it makes sense, okay? And this is the important thing.

Proposing Two Approaches to Understanding

I want to propose, let’s perhaps try to speak about this. I want to propose two other ways, or three or four, or as always, two other ways that one can understand such a sort of idea that this is a general thing, and to what extent this is helpful. I want to argue though that it’s not helpful to say that everything is this thing, but I want to explain bameh davar talui [upon what does the matter depend], and what depends on saying that this is the whole thing.

The Simple Approach: Overcoming as a Necessary Condition

The Source: Nesiv HaMalchus

There is a simple way, which I mean the simple way one can still accept. It doesn’t make it so difficult, but it makes it a bit difficult. But let me then I’ll say a more complicated way.

A simple way is to say like this: that kol hamiddos [all the character traits], this way you have explicitly in Nesiv HaMalchus [The Path of Kingship] at the beginning of chapter 5, I think they already spoke about this from that Rebbe once.

The Principle: Multiple Good Traits

There is a simple way that says like this: that yes, certainly, a person, to be a good person, is kalul [comprised] of very many other traits. I don’t know how many, four, eight, twelve, fifteen, two hundred, a bunch. But if you think into this, you’ll see that perhaps not regarding the trait itself, right? Regarding what is, I don’t know, the virtue of limmud haTorah [Torah study] or the virtue of chesed [kindness] or the virtue of tzedakah [charity] is a virtue bifnei atzmus [in and of itself], not dependent on what is an overcoming of others.

The Distinction Between the Essence of the Trait and Overcoming

Yes, you’re connecting correctly. If there is a good trait of chesed, let’s say, its goodness doesn’t consist in what I wouldn’t have wanted. Let’s see the normal, everything is a dispute. I want to get to it in a minute. Okay, the normal way, when people speak with each other, if someone is born with… I distinguish, even whoever thinks this way yes, I distinguish between the goodness of the trait and the education toward it, or what one extends in the person.

A person can say, yes, I only extend lefum tza’ara agra [according to the pain is the reward – Pirkei Avos 5:23]. Someone who is born good, doesn’t he get any reward. Okay, let it be so, it’s still a good thing, right? It’s better to be born this way than to be born bad where he doesn’t overcome himself, let’s say, right?

So in other words, lechol hade’os [according to all opinions], I mean that according to all opinions, there are good things, good traits, middos tovos, and good people which is not dependent on whether they have self control, right?

Reward and Punishment and Appreciation

Very good. If you speak regarding sechar ve’onesh [reward and punishment], perhaps even regarding a certain appreciation, as I say, a certain honoring of the person for all that he has done, or if you speak regarding education, how the person should arrive at this, it can be that there is a meni’ah [impediment].

Yes, it can certainly be that a person can say, this is also perhaps agreed to by all opinions, that although it’s very much a good thing to be chesed, if someone is not self controlled, he won’t be able to do any chesed properly. Even he will yes have the good trait, by the way, as we’ve learned many times, that someone who is born with good traits, almost no one is born with the derech hamemutza [the middle path].

Someone who is born with the middas hachesed [the trait of kindness] will be inclined to do too much chesed, and he also needs to self control. Perhaps his self control is a bit opposite, it’s not to do too much, but doesn’t matter, it’s still requires a certain shilton hada’as al haguf [mastery of the mind over the body]. What? Or a bit easier. Yes.

The Summary: Overcoming as a Condition and Not as the Essence

Al kol panim [in any case], it’s not, the goodness, it’s not dependent on the control, on the hisgabrus shebo [the self-overcoming within him], but it can be an impediment. It can be that according to all opinions one must speak of, it’s a tnai [condition], in order to have any trait one must have the middas hahisgabrus al haretzonos [the trait of overcoming desires], hata’avos [lusts], hateshukos [cravings], many other things, I don’t know what other people tell you, I guess, it’s not the important thing by the way, right? All these things. According to all opinions.

Everyone agrees that there are things that are good that the world doesn’t hold that they are good. Except, you know who is the only one who doesn’t hold this way? Where, this is an important point, but it’s not for now.

Clarification and Emphasis

But this is the important point, that, ah, I can explain it, why is this derech agav [by the way]? Let’s just make clear what I’m arguing here now kodem kol [first of all]. What I want that we hold is, we’re trying to explain in what ways the middah kelalit [general trait] of being hisgabrus al hata’avah [overcoming desire], as Rabbi Shlomo of Karlin said, what one wants one may not, is a general trait, it’s not only about, it doesn’t have the nosa [subject] of bread, in a certain sense to say it, one can convince himself that even when the mitzri [Egyptian] doesn’t let you do what you want, you also learn out the trait.

By the way, that’s totally false. And with this, as we finish the shiur the Nietzschean will make the senses to him [unclear reference, possibly a humorous aside].

The Central Distinction

And im kol zeh [nevertheless], this still doesn’t mean that the goodness of doing one chesed consists in that it is against the ta’avos hakodesh [holy desires – likely meant ironically or as a slip]. It can be that it’s a hachanah [preparation], it can be that it’s a tnai hanetzach [eternal condition], but it doesn’t consist in this. This is lechora [apparently] a thing that everyone can agree to. I don’t know if there is someone who can’t agree with this distinction, he can say more than this, but how much this is true, I think that this is true according to all opinions.

Practical Difference for Education

I just want to say that about this, and about the nafka minah [practical difference] of all things is very important regarding education, from which the measure of the holy child is an important measure. But what? Regarding education, here the distinction comes in, because you remember that limmud hamiddos [study/teaching of character traits] has two parts. There is the part of theoretical, what are the good traits? What does the Almighty want? I don’t know in such language.

Education and Rectification of Traits: The Practical Work of Gevurah and Holy Boldness

The Distinction and Its Practical Difference for Education

I don’t know if there is someone who can’t agree with this distinction. He can say more than this, but how much this is true, I think that this is true according to all opinions.

I just want to say that about this, and about the nafka minah of all things, is very important regarding education. From this the story of the holy child is an important story. Because regarding education, here the distinction comes in, because you remember that limmud hamiddos has it on two parts. There is the part of theoretical, what are the good traits? What does the Almighty want? I mean, it’s already like such language. What? Limmud iyun [theoretical study]. Very good. But if afterwards there is the part which is more nogei’a lema’aseh [relevant to practice], or which is relevant to practice. No, afterwards there is also the deed of that, not just the matter, there is the deed. And actually doing the main work, how did he always title his main chapter that speaks of tikkun hamiddos [rectification of traits]? Birefuas kochos hanefesh [in healing the powers of the soul], right? The healing. No, first that you are sick, and chapter 4 is birefuas choli hanefesh [in healing the illness of the soul], right? Ah, choli hanefesh, yes, birefuas choli hanefesh, right? And you begin, because you learned chapter 3, you understand that most people are sick. And in chapter 4 it also says that most people don’t have any perfect education, so in any case, or the education itself could have been sick. So since we need to educate people in order to become from bad good, naturally, most people always. So it comes out that naturally it’s still very important the trait. That means regarding education, this is what I want to say.

The First Condition of Education: Self-Control

In other words, if one wants to ask, one can ask two other questions: which is the most important trait? Which is the most important thing? I don’t know if gevurah lita’avos [strength over desires] is the most important thing, perhaps yes, perhaps not. But if one wants to ask, I want to make people, right? I want to be engaged in educating, I want to educate myself, I want to educate other people. What will ask, what are the three main things that you need to educate? The three conditions. Why do I say three? I don’t know, meanwhile I have one. But what are the few conditions that one must have in order to be able to educate people? What are the conditions? What must he mostly learn? What must he first learn, right? Okay, he must learn alef-beis, to be able to read, and so forth, right? But in order to become a person, what must he learn? What is the kind of thing that one must learn for a person?

Student: Almost all agree, I mean that even the modern psychologists are almost all also agree on this. Today it has a fancy name, it’s called executive function. It’s basically the same trait, right?

Teacher: Very good, this has to do with another question. Perhaps self-control needs to be a greater domain. Another thing, but the point is that according to all opinions, a person, if you leave him to nature, he will have ten thousand… each day he wants that, he has his inclination, the nature of the person – I don’t want to say body, I don’t know why it helps to say body – but the nature of the person is that he wants a thousand things, and one can very easily convince him to do various foolish things, self-destructive things, or bad things, or inconsistent things, and so forth. And one must teach him that not everything he wants should he do. It’s simple as that, right?

So in education, the thing of not doing everything one wants is one of the foundations of education. About this I wanted to say, it’s very important to grasp that this is not only against you. In every system of education, I want to say this way, it has at least two, I mean that these are the main two. I need to hold I need to think if there are more things.

Student: Yes, yes, yes, not to do. It’s education, right? It’s habit.

The Second Foundation: Gevurah and Holy Boldness

Teacher: I just want to say, so these are the basic things. And I want to think what one needs to add to this. Apparently one needs to add to this at least also not to do what the other tells you. It’s kind of tricky, because the Rebbe tells you, but not what the friend tells you. Right? Because just as the reality is that most people, or all people, before they are educated, before they are good, they will have every day a second desire, or various desires, and it’s not necessarily that following the desire will still help him, right? He has to control the desire, right? And the same way, I mean that in every system of education that I’ve ever heard about, it was assumed that other people are for the most part mixed. For the most part. There are a few good people, they need to follow, and otherwise it doesn’t begin, but most people are mixed. And therefore, a great part of the education to be a good person is not to listen to what everyone says. True? Which is called in Shulchan Aruch azus dikedushah [holy boldness]. Yes? Lo yisbayeish mipnei hamlei’igim alav [he should not be ashamed before those who mock him]. Right?

Or in Yiddish it’s called which trait? Courage. In Yiddish one says courage. Gevurah [strength]. Exactly, yes. An ometz [courage]. Ometz. And I thought which… We’ve noted many times that it’s not so introduced to speak about courage in our… I don’t know, I’ve heard many more teachings against desire than against doing what the other says. Velo od ela [and not only that], and there is a reason for this, because velo od ela, on every thing there is a kelipah [husk/evil], velo od ela, there is such a confusion of that with what I want, what is my desire against the Rebbe who doesn’t let us desires, understand? Perhaps they’re afraid of this.

The Error: “All People Are Good”

But apparently, one of the secrets of this is, because the one who knows who can, who won’t grasp that this is… No, I would have wanted to say that this is necessary, right? Because they do the right thing, do what is right, no difference what is the way of the trait. Almost always, three quarters of the time, it will be against what someone else holds is good, what someone else tells you to do. If you don’t have this, we’ve already spoken about this enough, if you don’t have this trait, you will very often do the bad thing simply because of cowardice.

Why Don’t We Talk About Enough?

Why is the reason that we don’t talk about enough? Because we have a false belief, a mistake, that says we live in a good society. All the people around you are good. One shouldn’t say that Jews are bad, true. All Jews are wildly good. Nonsense with noodles. Most people are not bad. Yes. It’s already three weeks, I can say the shmutz [dirt/criticism] about Jews. Three weeks one may, nu? Come, Rosh Hashanah will come, one should say everything, I know a little shmutz, I already. Already. What’s hammering into the head? Most people are not especially good, and the few who are indeed good are foolish. So, it’s exactly the same chinuch shiur [educational lecture] as the previous one. They don’t say it, because there’s such a… No, no, I’m not allowed. There’s something deep here that one must understand. For some reason, we live in a world, it’s not only a Jewish thing. When I say a Jewish thing, it’s also very hard for people to be against their environment. It’s always been hard, just as the nature of people is to live in a society and imitate them. But it was always accepted that a great basic part of the chinuch [education] to be a good person is not always to say and dance what the other says. It was agreed upon, and it’s a bit less agreed upon. Mesilas Yesharim [Path of the Just] consulted with Rabbi Pinchas ben Yair about azus [boldness], if I remember, or about gevurah [strength]. And it’s a bit strange to me. He indeed knew that not all people are good. And it’s perhaps a difficult thing to be mechanech [educate], because a person can’t say… People struggle with this in chinuch. This is not a chinuch shiur. But many Jews are confused about this. Because… I want to indeed talk about this. Because… many people, and one must do it correctly, but many people are confused about this because they say one may not teach the children to go against the system. You know about this? All those people who do this, the children don’t grow up well. One indeed may not. But what does this have to do with teaching the children to have a bit of backbone? What does one have to do with the other?

The Chinuch Paradox

There’s such a very strange confusion, as one says, that the only way a person can grow up well, or a person will grow up well, is if he believes that all people around him are good. No, the answer is the way he will grow up like them, that’s true. But if we assume that it’s not necessarily that most people are good, it’s not even necessary that most people mean well. Most people mean comfortable and good, they can’t what we call good, or no, it’s what feels comfortable to people. But most people want good, no, it’s not the new books, one must believe in the neshamah [soul], it doesn’t stand in the people. So therefore, a very basic part of being good, a father who doesn’t teach his children how to stand against other people sometimes, he hasn’t fulfilled the mitzvah of chinuch [commandment of education], “torascha v’sifseha” from Shulchan Aruch [Code of Jewish Law], he doesn’t fulfill it. Right? So one must find the normal old-fashioned way how to talk about the midas hagvurah [trait of strength], that just as one must talk, just as what one wants one may not. You know, chinuch. What the other says one may, one doesn’t have to. Here one may, but one doesn’t have to. I don’t know, one may not.

The Mussar Movement: Practical Exercises on Midos

And the work was exercises on this, as I remember, right? And the work indeed grasped very well how the chinuch must work. They went very extreme with everything, but they actually made people, they did a lot of human experimentation to see how one can actually make people, and they grasped that one must take a middah [character trait] and work on it b’fo’el mamash [actually in practice], not talk about it.

So they used to work on the midos ha… scratch, yes? They had a name for it, I don’t remember what it used to be called there, I don’t remember. And further there were tekufos [periods], I know that each tekufah they worked on a certain middah. In the year there was the zman [season], just as in the yeshivos where one learns Rav Ashi and Rav Ashi and Rav Kamma, there was a serious noseih [topic] of tikkun hamidos [character refinement], and every few months there was a certain middah that was worked on well.

Exercises on Boldness

And one of them was the middah of boldness. And then one used to go ask in the pharmacy for a glass of milk and the like, the things that everyone knows what people laugh at them for, and this was made for them, that they should laugh at them, and they will continue to do theirs. Understand?

Student: Yes, but it has a meaning to get used to when one does things that really belong, means it already belongs from the… ah, a good question.

Maggid Shiur [Lecturer]: It’s perhaps such extremism, as one says one should go to the other extreme, and it teaches how one understands that. It’s not an avlah [wrong], there’s nothing wrong with going and asking a screwdriver from the liquor store. It’s just funny. It’s just funny. Not the point, the point is the chinuch. The point is to get used to that the other laughs at you and it doesn’t matter. One doesn’t die from it. First of all, one must come out that one doesn’t die from it. Many people think they die from it, because they’ve never tried. First of all, it comes out that one doesn’t die from it. That’s the first thing.

Midas Hahisgabrus: Chinuch, Servitude, and the Purpose of Yetzias Mitzrayim

Back to the Novardok Chinuch Matter

Instructor:

It’s not an avlah, there’s nothing wrong with going and asking for a screwdriver from the liquor store. It’s just funny. It’s just funny. Not the point, the point is the chinuch. The point is to get used to that the other laughs at you and it doesn’t matter. One doesn’t die from it.

First of all, one must come out that one doesn’t die from it. Many people think they die from it, because they’ve never tried. First of all, it comes out that one doesn’t die from it. That’s the first thing.

Second, you’re right that lekho’orah [apparently] one should have done the right thing already. But I guess that something messed up there, I don’t know. I mean that yes, in short, this is already ad kan ba’inyan [thus far on the matter].

Let’s go back to where we were. Where were we? And they were here, we’re holding by this.

Definition of Chinuch: Forcing Oneself to Do What One Doesn’t Want

Instructor:

In this sense, what I want to say, biv’chinas chinuch [in terms of education], chanokh la’na’ar al pi darko [educate the youth according to his way]. Chinuch means forcing oneself to do things that you don’t want. There’s no other translation of the word chinuch. Right? That’s the answer of chinuch.

This is what all the mechankhim [educators] say that one must love, and one must make love. Certainly one must make. Through the fact that one gets the talent of being misgaber [overcoming oneself], of just having a bit of discipline, of just having a bit of self-control, one begins to love it also. One even loves the things that one does, not necessarily must one have self-control for it.

External Chinuch: The Role of Authority

Instructor:

How does one do what? So in terms of chinuch, of external chinuch, it’s very simple, because the father or the rebbe’s is their job. And this is the job of the authorities there. And usually he does it through sekhar v’onesh [reward and punishment], and external entirely b’chitzoniyus [externally, in an outward manner].

He says, young man, now we eat supper. You don’t want to? Doesn’t matter.

By the way, I don’t know what it was once. Nowadays it goes the opposite usually. Usually the children don’t want to eat, one must tell them yes to eat. But it doesn’t matter.

The Outcome of Chinuch: People vs. Non-People

Instructor:

The children whose father is like lo atzvo aviv miyamav [his father never restrained him – referring to King David and Adoniyahu], like Avshalom [Absalom], they grow up to be non-people.

And the children whose mother tells him sometimes, I don’t know how much, one must know for each shiur. Sometimes, now one eats the chicken and one doesn’t make any tricks, and the cake one can eat next week, they grow up to be people. A very basic thing.

One can teach it on the parents, or the chayei derech whoever is, that this is their job to teach this. It’s not so complicated.

Chinuch for Oneself

Instructor:

What does one do for oneself? And the same way, one comes, every week there’s a shiur at 9 o’clock, and one is there at 9 o’clock, 8:30, whatever. Eh, you have a terutz [excuse]? Yes, yes. You want to complicate yourself.

You’re gonna start taking seriously external things and you learn, and then slowly you’ll start liking it also, you’ll start liking the content.

Student:

But it’s so hard?

Instructor:

No, because you look at, I don’t want. Yes, I don’t want, but you know, he talks himself into it certainly, if he doesn’t know that it’s something wrong, he doesn’t know.

“What’s Bad That You Want?” – The Tzaddik vs. The Student

Instructor:

It’s the same question, the question that you ask on Novardok is the same question on the ma’aseh [story] of Reb Shlomo Karliner. What’s bad that you want? There’s nothing bad that you want.

If a person is mevorrar [clarified, refined], as it says in Me’or VaShemesh [Light and Sun – Chassidic work], No’am Elimelekh [Pleasantness of Elimelekh – Chassidic work], in many Chassidic sefarim it says this, when a person is already a tzaddik he must do what he wants, because he already knows what to want.

But as long as a person is not a tzaddik, he must be mechanech [educate] himself to do what he doesn’t want. Because not, sometimes he even does bad things. He doesn’t, it would have been a good thing to eat that roll, or not necessarily a bad thing, but he must teach himself a bit the midas hahisgabrus [the trait of self-overcoming].

Chinuch Without “Why” – Sometimes There Doesn’t Need to Be a Reason

Instructor:

By the way, mothers and fathers do this also to their children. Again, what we speak, chinuch is the original image. Many times one says to a boy, “Don’t eat that!” What’s something bad? What’s a difference? Somewhere there must be a limit, no? No, because it’s good to be limited in certain ways, it’s good to have control.

Many times it has a meaning, most times it has a meaning, but it doesn’t have to have a meaning. There’s a place of chinuch, a place that doesn’t have a meaning. And you must remember that chinuch works… that’s one thing.

Chinuch = Chukkim for the One Who Is Still Learning

Instructor:

The second thing, you must remember that chinuch means that you don’t know the meaning. That’s the translation. All the Chassidic torahs say that the entire Torah is chukkim [decrees without rational explanation] for whoever is holding by the chinuch, and not one thing from the entire Torah is chukkim for the one who is already holding by the tzaddik.

So the entire difference, you know, to say parah adumah [the red heifer – paradigmatic chok], we mean there to say that we are still in chinuch, great tzaddikim for that thing to understand, but Moshe Rabbeinu did indeed understand, right? And the like. This is a normal, very Chassidic pshat [explanation], it’s a Chassidic pshat, the idea basically.

“Why?” – The Why Lies in the Father

Instructor:

So, chinuch means when a boy, when the boy asks Daddy, “But why?” That’s what you live. Sometimes there’s a why, and sometimes there isn’t a why, it doesn’t matter. But it will never be entirely why, because the why lies in the father, not in him. That’s why it’s called chinuch, that’s why we’re now talking about midas hahisgabrus lehitiv [the trait of self-overcoming for the good] in the sense of chinuch, right?

Midas Hahisgabrus – The Most Important Middah

Instructor:

And that hisgabrus lehitiv, you can call it, as I said, it can be hisgabrus al devarim chitzoniyim [overcoming external things], courage, it’s not so different. I don’t know what other things one can describe as hisgabrus. But in this sense this middah is the most important middah.

One must already talk nothing about the chomer [material] being bad, I must now what that means. I know yes, but the next thing that I will talk about. But in the basic sense it’s correct.

Self-Control and Executive Function

Instructor:

So in the basic sense one can say that as you say, a restrained person, or a person who is called today has executive function, he is one of the basic definitions of a good person. Or al kol panim [at the very least] it’s a basic condition, it’s not enough to be self-control, one must also do something with the self-control.

In the extreme, one will make only hergalim [habits] from this, and without any tokhen [content], he has no taste, but there must be such a sort of thing. Right? I mean agree? It’s correct what I’m saying? I mean that it’s correct. I mean that it’s correct approximately.

Discussion: Ta’avah vs. Ratzon – Precision of the Definition

Instructor:

There is, now there’s a more important point. There’s another thing. There’s another way. Okay, the way is very correct, it’s not complicated. There’s another thing. Another way how people think that the midas hata’avah [the trait of desire], the midas of not ta’avah, is very essential, is the klalus kol hamidos [the totality of all traits]. And this is already more controversial.

I mean that what I said is agreed upon, if you have we’re divided you must tell me. I think that it’s simple, does anyone hold that not? Does anyone hold that not are those who think that everyone is already good and one must never be mechanech them. There’s such a belief of Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

Student:

No, I spoke about the midas hahisgabrus al hata’avah.

Instructor:

No, I spoke about the midas hata’avah. When a language is missing a word, it’s a big problem. Midas hahisgabrus al hata’avah, right? The middah that says that what one wants one doesn’t do. Not everything that one wants one does, right? That’s the middah that I’m talking about.

Student:

What other things doesn’t one want? Physically ta’avos [desires].

Instructor:

Retzonos [wants], but retzonos, one wants it. Physically, doesn’t need every time.

Student:

Very good, according to the definition that you just said that tobacco is not a ta’avah.

Instructor:

That’s a dispute between me and the Britannica. Yes, yes, that’s why I say, in this sense, that’s exactly what I am saying, this doesn’t have… right, but when people talk about the middah from the positive side, when people say in a positive manner to be restrained, they don’t mean the true specifically regarding ta’avah, indeed so.

The Middah in General – Not Only Ta’avah

Instructor:

The middah in general from the side of chinuch, from the side of the topic of chinuch is not only, it’s regarding what you want. Afterward it even becomes a problem, that is, you want? If I want good, indeed so. What do you want? Not necessarily your body, and not educating the body. When the body is the mechanech [educator], it will also want only good.

So, I don’t think you make the difference between body and soul is so helpful in this context. So, it’s just what you want. That’s why I say not the chinuch idea, what a boy wants and what a father wants. Okay, the ideal father is not me. Yes, you understand like this? The one who knows indeed what one must do. It doesn’t have with a ta’avah you’re right.

But many times when one talks about this, I see that Reb Shlomo Kaniel talks about this in this way.

New Chassidic Pshat: “Midas Ha’avdus” – Why Mitzrayim?

Instructor:

But as I said, you would he says from Mitzrayim [Egypt], and I want to go back from this, because I mean that it’s not crazy at all. And this pshat I heard a long time ago from a Chassidic shiur, and I mean that it’s a good pshat. It’s a good pshat practically, it’s such a good pshat on the blis Mitzrayim [the exile in Egypt], talking the second time Pesach.

The Story: All Midos One Has, Only One Is Missing

Instructor:

Once I met a Jew, he told me such a pshat, he said that it says in a Chassidic sefer, I don’t remember which. Why did the Jews need to be in Mitzrayim?

He told me like this, that every middah a person has in himself. All midos, yes, loving, hating, one should be aroused, one should be victorious etc. All midos people have. One just needs to lead it.

As the Chassidic sefarim, the Rambam [Maimonides] doesn’t say so, as the Chassidic sefarim said to say, the avodah [service] is only to make the person should use his midos on the good things, other good purposes, on the good ways, the correct matter, as the Rambam said. But one doesn’t need to be mechadesh [innovate] any new things. Right?

Midas Ha’avdus – The Only Middah That One Gets from Others

Instructor:

The young one claims like this: There’s one middah that no one has, one isn’t born with it. One gets it only from the other people. Which middah is this? The middah of following the other people. He called it midas ha’avdus [the trait of servitude]. I don’t know about them.

Student:

Avdus [servitude]?

11. To Follow Another

Instructor:

11. To follow another. When you don’t know, when you’re not a ben [a son], there is one who knows. An eved [a servant] is one who doesn’t know. What we call today chinuch [education]. Midas ha’avdus [the attribute of servitude]. It’s something that people have within themselves. I don’t know, he argued that it’s not. It’s not relevant to the portion of the Torah, I’m just saying what my friend argued.

Avraham Avinu Was Not a Servant

Instructor:

So consequently he said about this, Avraham Avinu [Abraham our forefather] was a great tzaddik [righteous person], but he wasn’t a servant. Does it say eved [servant] about anyone before Yetzias Mitzrayim [before the Exodus from Egypt]? It doesn’t say. Look inside to see. Look in the concordance.

Student:

No, he says he should say a new Torah. Look inside.

Instructor:

Eved of Avraham, but eved Hashem [servant of God]. Did the Almighty have servants before Yetzias Mitzrayim? In any case, in the Torah it certainly says many times that the Almighty had us as servants because we were in Egypt, because we were taken out of Egypt, they were servants, and switched the servitude to the Almighty. True?

The Conclusion: Egypt Was to Acquire the Attribute of Servitude

Instructor:

I know very famously, Moshe [Moses] is a servant to the Almighty, he only took it out from Egypt. I know very famously that whoever else, that the Jews are avdei Hashem asher hotzeisi osam me’eretz Mitzrayim [servants of God whom I took out from the land of Egypt], yes? I don’t know if there was before Yetzias Mitzrayim such a concept of being His servants.

Student:

Certainly there was such a thing, there were servants on the side.

Instructor:

Yes, very good. The Jew explained very nicely that he said a Torah. Again, I don’t know to what extent it’s… Yes yes, that’s what I’m saying, but…

Student:

Okay, there was an avodah [service], but…

Instructor:

[continues to next section]

Chinuch, Kabbalas Ol, and the Nature of Servitude

The Only Attribute That Chinuch Can Give

But in short, let me leave aside the Torah of the simple meaning of Yetzias Mitzrayim. But he wants to bring out that… but according to how I’m explaining it, it’s a bit better.

There is such an attribute – so again, I don’t need to rely on Yaakov Keller’s attribute. I think that the way we use midos [character traits] doesn’t really mean an attribute, but it’s chinuch, a conduct, a very general thing. What does it mean? That I can follow what I need to follow, or whom I need to follow, when I don’t understand it, when I don’t hold by it, as if, when I don’t see it myself. This is a very basic thing.

Now, I would say the opposite: This is the only attribute that one can actually receive from another. Let’s say it this way: Chinuch can only give this attribute.

I would say, even, let’s try, not exactly true, but in a certain sense, right? As one means bluntly, right?

What Chinuch Cannot Give

What does chinuch give? Chinuch cannot give love. Love a person must love himself. It can ignite your love, it can make you do the external actions, which causes you to begin to love something – right as we learn.

But what is the chinuch itself? What does it give you? What does it consist of? From the self-control, from the control. From being controlled.

The Problem of Self-Control

First I’m going to be controlled by another – let’s say I can control myself, or perhaps never, perhaps there are always two: my intellect and my body, or the Almighty and me. There’s always perhaps another.

And in order to speak of controlling – just it’s hard to speak of self-control, it’s a problematic word, it doesn’t really make sense – it only makes sense if there are like two souls in some way, and so forth. The daas [knowledge/consciousness] controls the middah [trait], the desire, and so on.

Egypt: The Teaching of Servitude

But about this that person argued that one had to go to Egypt. Egypt taught well for the Jews what it means to be a servant. Otherwise one wouldn’t have known that a Jew is a servant. How can a person be a servant? One discovered it in Egypt.

Egypt taught the Jews what it means to be a servant. They were avadim l’Pharaoh [slaves to Pharaoh]. It wasn’t good… not so good to be a servant to Pharaoh, they didn’t do good things with all of this. Potentially one learned what it means to be a person.

The Difference Between Avraham and Moshe

Before you’re a servant, you can be Avraham Avinu, Avraham Ohavi [Abraham My beloved]. I say, you do what you love, he understood correctly.

But there is like we spoke – it fits with what we’ve spoken many times about the difference between Moshe and Avraham, right? That Avraham went with love, and Moshe went with fear, right?

Moshe founded the Torah that gives reward and punishment, right? Avraham still didn’t have any reward and punishment, through perfection, right? In the sense that whoever doesn’t follow gets hit, right?

This is what Moshe Rabbeinu founded, this is what was taken from Egypt. This is the social, the political aspect of… of the Torah that says they educate people who don’t hold by it. Whoever holds by it doesn’t need it.

They say many times: The Torah isn’t made for a good person, not made for a bad person, or for unformed people – rather, for a person who needs chinuch.

Servitude: The Only Attribute That Can Be Taken

And here you have the attribute. This is as if the only attribute that can be taken. It doesn’t say love, first… It’s very interesting: it doesn’t say first you loved Pharaoh, now love the Almighty instead.

The Baal Shem Tov would also say this: No, a servant you can be first to Pharaoh, now to the Almighty. Right? Right what I’m saying? It’s a logical argument. So this is a Torah.

But this is the idea of servitude, but servitude I don’t know what it actually means. This is in short, one can still investigate much regarding the simple meaning of Yetzias Mitzrayim and so forth.

The Main Point: Chinuch Works With Someone Else Doing to You

But what I would want to bring out from this word is just that this is a thing – that’s why I’m speaking about this in the sense of chinuch, because this is something that… actually works with someone else doing to you. This is the main distinction I want to say, the main point that I’ve extracted from this. Right?

Even Egypt, even Moshe Rabbeinu, even the reward and punishment that’s called yiras ha’onesh [fear of punishment], even the strap that hits whoever doesn’t follow, or what gives rewards to whoever follows, teaches what? The attribute that not everything I must do what I want, it’s not I who wants. Already something, already something accomplished.

Questions and Discussion: The Nature of Chinuch

Student: One who doesn’t have that, like it says in…

Instructor: No, he teaches you very well, he hits you, he teaches you, and in the end you have the attribute.

Student: Right, right. Of course, you receive the attribute. You can ask what happens when that person goes away.

Instructor: So, if you’ve learned, you’ll still have the attribute even when he goes away. That’s the difference. If someone… very good, very good. I agree with you.

Chinuch as an Immovable Reality

I think that that person’s job is not to teach you, but to be the reality around which you’re stuck in. This is something I remembered from someone’s very clever way of thinking about chinuch, also practically, chinuch of children, or also oneself, by the way.

Chinuch means being an unmovable thing, being nature. That means, the father, when… that’s why if with a father one can negotiate with him too much, it’s always a problem for these sorts of things. Do you understand what I’m saying? Because somewhere there needs to be… How does one learn?

I’m explaining to you that it’s good for you to follow me. This is no longer servitude, this is a business thing. You go to the doctor, you’re not a servant of the doctor. The doctor knows, you follow him. Right?

There is some trust, implicit, that’s why a child follows his father.

Reward and Punishment as Educator

When we speak of reward and punishment, the law, the law is an educator in this way. The Torah, the statute, is chinuch in this way. In what way? In this way, one says: You can hold from today until tomorrow that one does this, I don’t care what you hold. You can hold from today until tomorrow that it’s foolishness, and you don’t know at all. The reality is: if you will do such and such, tomorrow you will find yourself in prison.

And since you don’t want to be in prison presumably – if someone wants to, one can’t help them, right? There’s a problem. But fine, right? Real physical pain, right? Chinuch works with physical pain and pleasure. They’ll put you in prison. Consequently, you don’t want to, so you learn to control your desires because you don’t want to go to prison. Right? So, there must be a certain reason.

Digression: The Problem With Modern Teshuva-Talk

For example, the thing of teshuva [repentance] is very destructive. I’m here anti against Jewish lectures, I can’t in my Torah, in my thing, right? Which there’s a real problem. That means, the Ramban [Nachmanides] already speaks about this in a certain sense, about real shame or perhaps such things.

The Problem With “There’s Always a Way Out”

When there’s a certain chinuch that says, “There’s always a way out.” If there’s always a way out, then nothing ever becomes established in a person. Not always is there a way out. There are things for which one cannot do teshuva.

If teshuva is not a way out, teshuva is a way to become better. That is teshuva.

Student: I know, I also hold that way. True.

Instructor: And I say that in the way I was taught, and if this is exactly what I mean by this, teshuva becomes the problem. If you use teshuva as a license to sin, teshuva doesn’t work for you. Because teshuva is a chotei u’machtei [one who sins and causes others to sin], one must kill him, one must imprison him as the last teshuva for the teshuva.

Right, but, and the Zohar [the foundational work of Kabbalah] says many times, Rebbi, and the Zohar says many times that the first attribute… if someone is in those actions and he does teshuva afterwards, certainly one can do teshuva. One of the things doesn’t mean that one may not. Yes, certainly do teshuva. One can overcome oneself, but one must overcome the problem.

Critique of the Positive Style

I say that just, the way we speak a lot about teshuva I think is destructive, because I feel, I speak with people… Again, it’s probably, when I complain about, I know, it’s not a system that’s guilty, it’s humanity that’s guilty.

But there’s a certain style that we love to speak, the positive style that one gets from Chassidic books, and so forth. And, again, from the entire modern world has the positive style. They’re missing a certain thing that not always can one do teshuva, okay? Not always can the Almighty help.

The Limit of Mercy

There are things that can begin very badly, no one will help even the Almighty. What does the Almighty mean? The Almighty made it that there should be a pit, and it’s deep. This is a reality that you bump into and there’s no way out. I can give you political examples.

In short, it’s true that many times there is a way out. The tradition from Dovid HaMelech [King David] says that there’s always al yisgaber rachamim [may mercy prevail] is true. It’s much more complicated.

But there are also very many cases where there isn’t any… It’s already… How does Reb Motele Zilber say? It says even cherev chadah munachas al tzavaro [even if a sharp sword rests upon one’s neck]. It doesn’t say even cherev chadah chocheves es tzavaro [cutting one’s neck]. Okay? Some limit there certainly is. Okay? Munachas [resting], we can hear. There is some limit.

Kabbalas Ol: The First Level

And why am I saying this? I’m thinking what Yoel said, but I think it’s a very clever thing. That this sort of chinuch, as the Zohar says many times that kabbalas ol [acceptance of the yoke] is the first… And it’s not kabbalas ol.

Kabbalas ol means that I’m not accepting the yoke. If I can accept the yoke, and tomorrow I don’t accept it I need to do teshuva to make kabbalas ol. Kabbalas ol is a recognition of reality, right?

That’s why nowadays that people don’t believe in reward and punishment, which you should believe in, because it happens whether you want it or not. It’s both there and not there, and the world works… but it’s there, people are afraid to talk about this, that nobody has a certain kabbalas ol, and it’s a big problem.

The Zohar’s Parable: The Animal With the Yoke

Kabbalas ol, says the Zohar, is like… The Zohar uses exactly the chinuch parable. The Zohar says, certainly, there are much higher levels. Certainly, kabbalas ol means you don’t know what you’re doing, one shouldn’t remain there.

But the Zohar says many times that like an ox, or a… yes, there is such a parah adumah [red heifer], “asher lo alah aleha ol” [upon which no yoke has been placed], right? What do we see from this? That it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have a yoke now, right?

A cow, when it becomes so, it says in the Mishnah in Shabbos, right? One takes a cow or an animal, when it’s born, if one wants it to be a working animal, from when it’s small, one places a yoke upon it. It drags thousands, and it’s not yet strong enough to drag a plow, but it drags things. So it learns that one drags. When the master says to drag, one drags.

Later one can even take off the yoke, one can already drag it on the way sometimes, it doesn’t have to remain with the yoke.

Kabbalas Ol as Recognition of Limits

This says that kabbalas ol is always something that… Why does it mean? Kabbalas ol means that somewhere there is a limit to my choice, to my I-understand. Which isn’t the world, I’ll do teshuva, it won’t help. There are somewhere things that… if I will do this, the result happens. The fact, cause and effect. Cause and effect is stronger than me.

And when a person, if we speak about chinuch, which is a system of law, or a father, or an educational institution, whatever, one must be an educator. He is like there. In a certain sense, in every time that’s going to be so, the…

Chinuch, Servitude, Teshuva, and the Reality of Human Nature

Chinuch and the Inflexible Educator

Instructor:

There are somewhere things that if I will do this, the result will happen. The fact, cause and effect. Cause and effect is stronger than me. And when a person, if we speak about chinuch, which is a system of law, or a father, or an educational institution, whatever, one must be an educator. He is like that. In a certain sense, he is not chinuch. And every time it’s going to be so, the children or the students are going to have to think that the rabbi is a bit of a wicked person. Because he’s inflexible, a bit flexible he may be.

I don’t know, I’m not saying it’s practical, but I look at many people, I hold that that person is actually wicked, because in practice his wickedness helped that he can something. With this person one cannot speak about this thing, one can speak about many things, about the regulations he made, one cannot speak about what will be done. He is a law of nature in place. You want to go to the yeshiva, you’ll have to adjust to this.

Now, if there’s some benefit that one has from that thing, he doesn’t let out before six o’clock. In practice, the shiur could continue until six o’clock, because that person has a craziness, that he has a tradition from Rachel Imeinu [Rachel our mother], that until six o’clock must be the shiur, and let the whole world burst. It doesn’t even matter that it’s snowing, that there’s a blizzard, that there’s a hurricane, he doesn’t care. That’s the halacha [Jewish law], let everyone burst. You can transgress, by the way, don’t say. But that’s what chinuch is, because chinuch, the servitude means that the other decides, not you decide. Right?

Kabbalas Ol Malchus Shamayim – A Reminder

I always think that kabbalas ol malchus shamayim [accepting the yoke of Heaven’s kingship], doesn’t really mean kabbalas ol malchus shamayim. It means, when they say Krias Shema [the Shema prayer] every day, kabbalas ol malchus shamayim, but it doesn’t mean that you do something with this. It means that you remind yourself, one can forget. It’s reminding you, because otherwise, you’ll actually break your neck from going back going back. Yes, so this is the topic of servitude.

Wow, that’s enough for today’s shiur. I have to say another piece that I prepared. It was better that I prepared.

Slavery – Not a Virtue, Not the Ultimate Goal

No, slavery is not a virtue, slavery is a terrible thing. Simply, one is a slave to Pharaoh. But after one is a slave to Pharaoh, for that one must go out from Egypt, so that one shouldn’t remain a slave, not to Pharaoh, not to the supervisors in the yeshiva.

No, the eved Hashem [servant of God] is also not a virtue. I’m not saying in this shiur that the ultimate goal is to be an eved Hashem, to be nullified before the Almighty, as other people say. No, the ultimate goal is to understand, to be a friend with the Almighty, to be a son as it says and so on, to be one who understands. Ovdei me’ahava [those who serve from love], certainly, that means lishma [for its own sake]. Avoda me’ahava is better than avoda me’yira [service from love… from fear].

But since most people, or all people, begin with a lot of foolishness in their heads, and if it doesn’t always work, and it can be that even when it always works one will need a certain shikul hadaas [balanced judgment] that should overcome many neti’os [inclinations], a part which are good inclinations, he has so much ahavas Hashem [love of God], therefore he wants to go to the mikvah in Corona, I don’t know. In short, that means one needs to have a control that says, “Yes, I want to, but now one shouldn’t.”

So, it’s always, it’s even basic for chinuch, even in the sense of chinuch it’s a basic quality to have the quality of controlling, not doing only what you want, and doing what the other wants. Or, as I explained it now with you, recognizing that the other’s desires, someone else’s…

Teshuva – Between Man and God and Between Man and His Fellow

You know that teshuva [repentance] always works, but what does it say in the Mishna? Yes, very interesting. I want to continue speaking about teshuva, which is coming soon… the holy days are already around the corner. Just, don’t commit some sins. I love that.

Anyway, no, I just want to bring out this. The Mishna says that a chait she’bein adam lamakom [sin between man and God] teshuva helps, a chait she’bein adam lachaveiro [sin between man and his fellow] teshuva doesn’t help. What does everyone understand? That the Almighty can always forgive you, it’s basically free. But your friend, you can’t always go back, right? Ah, you can ask him for forgiveness. You can’t always ask him for forgiveness. You can wait until he dies and go to his grave and believe that he’ll forgive you. But aside from that, not always, even then it doesn’t always help, right?

So what’s going on here? No, I just want to bring out, the Mishna is a Mishna on reality. It’s very important. It tells you, teshuva is the highest thing, one can fix everything, one can forgive everything, but do me a favor, don’t convince yourself that because of this you can step on your friend and think that he’ll forgive you.

I feel that people will do many real wild things with their friends too. “I didn’t ask you for forgiveness then on erev Yom Kippur [the eve of the Day of Atonement]? Come here. If you thought about it, I’m enough of a Jew to call you, I understand that you’re that sort of person, I’ll tell you that I forgive you just because I’m a forgiving person, I don’t have the strength to struggle with you.” Right? Right? Everyone wants these things for themselves. Very good. When someone comes to ask you for forgiveness, you should remember, take the moment, you should see what can be done. But it can’t be that…

Stories of Generations in Conflict

I mean that people are very accustomed to this. One can always transgress, one can already… I know people who have been in conflict for several generations, and they’re justified in remaining in conflict for several generations. I don’t mean justified, but he still feels smart, they’re justified. Every grandfather wronged his grandfather, and he doesn’t forgive, and he doesn’t forgive. I can say it.

Okay, but this speaks, the other wants, can a serious thing for years. There was a… I’m not saying you’re justified, there was some certain Chassidus that have been in conflict for sixty years. And recently, I’m not saying… hello, the recent one will be told later. Sixty years? Approximately. And recently, a few years ago, one of the… one of the sides had some illness, and the illness was that it’s probably a complaint from the other Rebbe.

So, they went to the other Rebbe, and he says, he wants to ask him for forgiveness. He says, no problem, give back the building that I hold is mine. He says, I’ll forgive him. The other says, crazy, I wouldn’t be whoever means it. No, he said, I can manage, but the Chassidim don’t let. Whatever, you understand? Okay, by the way, I don’t know if it turns out that it can still the Torah, and the other holds that the asking… I won’t go into the details of the case, I’m just saying that this is normal.

People are all stubborn, he meant that he’s going to ask forgiveness, why should he give half of the building? Make some compromise that works. So, yes, that’s what leads to this. This is called kabbalas ol.

Distinctions in Atonement – The Price of Teshuva

No, just say that we’re talking about teshuva. The Mishna says that when there’s a real problem, teshuva doesn’t help. But regarding Makom it also says, there are chilukei kappara [different levels of atonement]. How much you can fix the problem, the Almighty laid upon him, not fix the problem. What I want to say, this is regarding Makom, one can always do teshuva.

Today there’s no Beis HaMikdash [the Holy Temple], there’s only Yom Kippur [the Day of Atonement], it works out, it’s still lucky. When that comes, one will have to pay to do teshuva. Now it’s still free, one should grab it. Rabbosai, it’s the sermon for seventy, meaning trouble, one should grab it, because now enter into teshuva. When that comes later it won’t help, it will cost money to do teshuva. One will have to buy a chatas [sin offering]. Okay, and they also need the yahrzeit, I don’t know, but in short, it’s expensive.

No, you understand? It’s really… You know, a whole sheep, a feast? A goat? Many of them. No, it costs, okay, I don’t know, in short, it costs, I don’t know how much it costs. But it’s not like that. It’s good. This sort, on some level is a reality that… yes.

In short, that’s the thing. And that’s the meaning, in this sense everything is also teshuva. That means teshuva tata’a [lower-level repentance], and so on. In this sense this is also a topic of like hisgabrus la’ta’ava [overcoming desire], or of not doing what you want. Understand? Because the other can become angry, and he can remain angry. It can be that your asking for forgiveness won’t help. You know that you’re going to make damage.

The Reality of Human Nature

You say earlier that people aren’t good, yes? No person is good. It’s over all five cents. It’s good pressed, yes. Everyone has jealousy, whatever. But five cents, sixty pressed, a bad person. It’s good, no one is bad. Okay, everyone is, everyone is good.

I mean, I’ll tell you what I mean. I’ll tell you, could you rely must people to do the rating when there is any cost involved. After twenty dollars? How hard it becomes, what’s the level? It’s harder, harder, harder. Everyone has chesed tests. There’s Yaakov, everyone has chesed tests.

So, everyone has chesed said, so, the righteous rabbi, as Rav Watner said, one encounters for a mitzva dan lekaf zechus [judging favorably], but usually one encounters better when one is dan lekaf chova [judging unfavorably]. So… I say this, if you’ll calculate that people, you know what we’re doing, the right thing, many times there’s a question, it’s easier to do, the world does this, but those who want to do the right thing, it’s a bit harder. I’m not even talking about crazy harder, okay? A bit harder.

And I want to ask you, how many people can you rely on that you know that this is work that you do, that what’s happening here? One must do something different. How many people, I had such incidents in my life, I struggled with another, the other told me, “Come here, if you’ll predict that everyone will do what’s good for their interests, it will be eighty, ninety percent correct. Now, sometimes the other is interested on your side, very good. I’m not saying that everyone’s interests are always against you. Many times interests go together with this, so it’s good. But if you predict there, make there a prediction, about ninety-five percent of the time you’ll be right.

In reality, anyway, you’ll predict that some people, people are not even convincible. I’m not talking, you can go to him and say, and he’ll actually understand that it’s not right, but he doesn’t do it anyway. And most people are like this, that’s what I mean. At least, you have to assume that most people are like this. That’s what I would say. You have to assume that most people are like this. And I don’t see that that’s… I don’t see that that’s… I think that that’s… perhaps I’m wrong.

Clarification – “Bad” Versus “Not Reliable”

It doesn’t mean that that person, when you say bad, you see, you’re talking about a bad person. No, not greatly. A clear thing. A clear thing, a bad person is a clear thing. Everyone knows by themselves. No, bad, not bad. I said, not reliable. You understand what I’m saying? Why are they bad? Does the person think all day how to steal from the other? No, most people aren’t like that. Most people are beinonim [average people].

But I ask you, I tell you, at his wedding, if there’s no thing, the person who came to his wedding will cost something, and… cost effort and money? No, not effort. Why should he make peace? No, it’s not. No, no, it’s not that. That’s a small thing, I understand that. I won’t give… No, I won’t give. Bad is not the correct word. I don’t want to give any example. I won’t give any example. I won’t give any example. I won’t give any example.

No, the problem is, the parable is not such a problem of profitability, the problem is that it’s distracted from the idea that I want to bring out. I’ll tell you what I mean, okay?

The Story with the Condo Meeting: Self-Interest and the Limits of “Being Good”

Conclusion: A Practical Story that Illustrates the Entire Matter

I’ll tell you what I mean, okay? We just spoke well, according to all opinions, the condition of being good is not only what my interest is, not only what I want, okay? I want to tell you a story, okay? A Jew told me a story.

There was, and I can end with this story, it’s a matter to end with a story, one takes a story, one says a story meanwhile, and somewhere one also learns.

The Situation: A Condo with Two Types of Houses

So, there was a neighborhood, not a neighborhood, such a building, a condo let’s say, yes? Where there is, everyone has their house, but there’s also the, what’s it called? The condo. In short, one must take care of the, yes, one must pay for the guy who cleans up, the management.

So, yes, now, in this condo there were different sizes. One has a larger house, two, I remember it had a very clear definition, no doubt. Two levels, or two, I don’t remember, something in short, levels, other levels, approximately two types there were in the neighborhood, okay? So, and the larger is also the larger outside, it has more parking, I don’t remember any doubt in this, I want to need to explain the situation.

The Dispute: How to Pay for Management

And there was a meeting, they sat down for a meeting at the committee meeting, and they discussed how much each one should pay for the management, but whatever. There was a big dispute. There were some people who said that whoever has a larger house, he uses more of the… one must wash more for him, let him pay more, and whoever has a smaller house, let him pay less. The others said, no, everyone should pay equally.

Analyzing the Two Sides: A Grey Area

So what do you think? He had an argument with his friend. What do you think? Who holds this way and who holds that way? Why is it understood? One minute, here there’s a question. I can understand both sides.

Let’s say, I made a bit more inclined toward the opinion. In practice, how much he has two parking lots, it’s a bit more, but most of the work goes into the garden there that’s taken care of. Everyone uses one, right? It’s a small difference. That he’s a bit of a bigger wealthy person, why will it squeeze money out of him? Because he has more money, he has a bigger also. Hard, right?

There are two sides. It’s not so hard to understand that there would be two sides. Ask a person from outside, “What should one do when just one person makes the regulation?” One can hear that one should do it in both ways. It makes sense to pay one, it makes sense…

What’s the custom? Okay, there they didn’t know about this custom, we’re talking about before the custom, I don’t know. In that place there was a dispute, it seems there wasn’t any custom at all.

The Main Point: Self-Interest Distorts Judgment

The Question: Why Can’t One Rule Objectively?

So I ask you, you say, do you hold that people aren’t bad, right? They’re not bad. Why isn’t there anyone… Why? What does it mean? There’s a quality of integrity…

I said, let’s speak the discussion to the essence of the matter. What do you hold? You hold that a larger house should pay more. You have a larger house, okay, you have a larger house. Why should you hold differently because you have a larger house? I hold from my interests.

Clarification: There Is an Objective Truth

So, against justice and integrity, right? Or is there a grey area? Certainly it’s a grey area, because there’s a dispute. It’s not that everyone is a thief. But you also understand that objectively it doesn’t matter at all if you have a house.

One minute, let’s not say, I just want to explain, there is yes objectively. In other words, objectively, one can ask a rav, one can ask, you’re an expert in this topic, one can ask you, one should say what the custom is, one should do what the custom of the world is. One can, there are ways. Objectively, there aren’t two sides.

Objectively, let’s say very clearly, objectively, that I have two houses, there’s no reason whatsoever that will hold that the one with two houses should pay the same as one house. There’s no connection between one and the other, right?

The Prediction: Ninety Percent Will Vote According to Their Interest

So consequently, I predict to you that ninety percent, perhaps there was one little tzaddik who voted against his interest, but ninety percent, the other said, ah, he tells the story, the other came and he said, he’s making himself foolish, he’s making a meeting, he’s going to vote, I don’t know what he’s doing, let them calculate how many there are like this, how many there are like this, one doesn’t know what the vote will be.

The vote, in other words, when one makes a vote, one assumes that people are good, right? If not, one doesn’t make a vote. One assumes that as if, okay, if most of the world holds this way, one goes after the majority. One minute, that’s enough for me, so you’re on my side now.

Most people will do their interest, although he himself, when you ask him about the next house, he also has the apartment in the next one, there he holds the opposite. Certainly, it’s already wrong that you hold for my interest.

The Conclusion: People Aren’t Bad, But Their Judgment Gets Distorted

Admitting that Self-Interest Isn’t “Bad” — But It Is a Problem

Very good, you admitted it at the moment. No, you’re not a matter of the wild. When I’m in training for my interests, when I said that you would rule this way, I do everything opposite, and you’re not bad.

Okay, I make an agreement with someone, so I have to follow through. Why? That person also educated me for his interests. Because if two people make an agreement that they’re going to go out, and the other one cancels, he’s a bad person. That’s certainly true, he’s definitely a bad person. He doesn’t follow the din Torah [din Torah: Torah law/judgment] or the hakhraah [hakhraah: ruling] of the rabbis, certainly.

Conclusion

Okay, I want to go home as quickly as possible. Do you understand? So, bekitzur [bekitzur: in short], I’ve given you enough to do what you need to do.