Laws of Shabbat Chapter 29 (Auto Translated)

Laws of Shabbat Chapter 29 – The Mitzvah of Kiddush and Havdalah

Introduction: Five Mitzvot of Shabbat

Speaker 1: We are learning the Laws of Shabbat, the 29th chapter, one before the last chapter. We are going to learn there about the mitzvah of kiddush and havdalah.

Very good. What is this mitzvah called?

Speaker 2: The mitzvah of “zachor et yom haShabbat” (remember the Shabbat day).

Speaker 1: Wonderful. In the beginning, the Rambam said that on Shabbat there are how many mitzvot? He said five mitzvot, and the last of them was kiddush. Five mitzvot. To rest, that is in the 39 melachot, and we had not to judge, not to punish. The last one was not to go out beyond the boundary. The last two chapters were about techum Shabbat. And the last, the fifth mitzvah of Shabbat, is a positive commandment to sanctify with words, to make kiddush.

Very good. Yes, and before we go into the lesson, let us honor and mention “to sanctify with words” all those who help with our lesson, and first and foremost our friend, the sponsor of the lesson, the distinguished Rabbi Joel Eli Werzberger, may the merit of Torah protect them all.

Law 1: A Positive Commandment from the Torah to Sanctify the Shabbat Day with Words

Speaker 1: Yes, the Rambam says, “It is a positive commandment from the Torah to sanctify the Shabbat day with words”, that one should sanctify the Shabbat day with words.

What does the word “sanctify” mean? You were just engaged in the topic of kedushah (holiness).

Speaker 2: To sanctify means to make holy, means to set apart. To mention the holiness of Shabbat with words.

Speaker 1: No, but he says “to sanctify,” which means that holiness means one sets apart the day, that one sets apart a Shabbat meal. But I don’t know, perhaps he would have said that the remembrance with words… Let’s say the verse, afterwards we will see.

“As it says, it states in the verse, ‘Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it.’” That is to say, one could have thought that “remember the Shabbat day” is still a warning about all the other mitzvot, about resting on Shabbat. But the Sages don’t learn it that way, rather they say “remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it” means a certain other thing. Remembrance, a remembrance of praise and sanctification, what is this remembering? Not thinking. To remember is to bring up to memory through saying things, through remembrances, through mentioning in a manner of praise and sanctification.

Discussion: Three Meanings of “Remembrance”

Speaker 1: Let’s say it this way, there are two meanings in the word remembrance, right? One meaning is simply to remember, that would have been the simple interpretation, remember to keep Shabbat. But it doesn’t mean to remember in the mind, right? It means it’s part of the warning about keeping Shabbat. Make sure to keep Shabbat, the same thing, both mean not to do a prohibition, yes? Not necessarily not to do the prohibition, the point is, whatever Shabbat is, is to do. This doesn’t mean that there is now a mental mitzvah about Shabbat besides the actions and the rest of Shabbat. That would have been the simple interpretation, as you say, zachor and shamor, according to the simple meaning the commentators say means the same thing, it means make yourself Shabbat.

The innovation, we learn differently, we learn that remembrance is indeed an additional mitzvah. Now, even in this additional mitzvah you could have learned two ways. You could have learned that there is a concept to remember, there is an inner dimension, there is a concept to think about Shabbat. That would have been one meaning. Then comes in, that would have been remembering, let’s say, there is a concept to stand and remember, I don’t know, on Wednesday to remember that there is such a thing as Shabbat, let’s say. That would have been one meaning, and that is not the meaning that the Ramban understands.

The meaning, a third meaning here, is that one can say remembrance means to mention. To mention doesn’t mean I mention so as not to forget, right? To mention means I as if say, right? How does one say it in Yiddish? To remember, to mention, to mention, I don’t know, to say out. Yes, I remember that they once had a better word for this. To declare, to announce, declaring, yes, to make a situation, no, to say. In short, to say.

Speaker 2: So, what should I say therefore remembrance?

Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, that means to remember.

Speaker 2: No, but the mentioning is a way how one should remember, no? It’s connected.

Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no. It’s not a way. Not a way to remember that it’s Shabbat. It’s a concept to mention the concept of Shabbat.

Now, what does “to sanctify it” mean? Further, according to the second three interpretations there is a difference. If “remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it” means remember to make Shabbat holy by not doing any melachot, you conduct yourself in holiness and the like, that would have been the first meaning. But the second meaning, that it only means to mention, to speak about Shabbat.

So how does one “sanctify” Shabbat with this? The Rambam translates, “This remembrance is a remembrance of praise and holiness”. In other words, you speak of its holiness. As he also says here, and he brings the language from Sefer HaMitzvot, “This remembrance is a remembrance of holiness and greatness”. That is, speak of the holiness of Shabbat.

So, it’s not… You could have translated “to sanctify it” means to make it holy, according to the Rambam, not by making kiddush does one sanctify Shabbat. It’s not an action. “To sanctify it” means, the Rambam translates, a remembrance of holiness. “Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it,” according to the interpretation, according to the Sages’ understanding, “remember,” this remembrance is a remembrance of praise and holiness. And indeed you see that praise and holiness by the Rambam mean the same thing, as I argue many times, that holiness means special, unique, elevated. So that is the meaning.

You can say that there is a concept. No one would have asked someone who has intention in kiddush that with this one actually sanctifies it, that by speaking about it one effects it, and the like. But, at least the Rambam’s definition of the learning and of the mitzvah is so. So that means, there is a mitzvah to speak about it. So according to this it makes sense that the language “who has sanctified us with His commandments” and at the end “who sanctifies the Shabbat” is not just that this is the language that the Sages made, but this is exactly fitting, because you are speaking of remembering holiness.

Kiddush at Its Entrance and Havdalah at Its Exit

Speaker 1: “And one must mention it” – when is this thing, when does one remember Shabbat to sanctify it? “And one must mention it at its entrance and at its exit”. The mitzvah is to mention when it comes in and when it goes out. At its entrance with kiddush hayom. So they have two names. What one says at its entrance is called kiddush hayom, when the day begins, when the day becomes sanctified. And at its exit it is called havdalah, when separating between the day that just was and the weekday.

But the Rambam learns, and so the commentators speak, that it’s the same idea. Essentially one could have called kiddush also havdalah. I mean, here one says the language of havdalah, here one says the language of kiddush, but the point is to mention that Shabbat is different from the entire week. Shabbat is holy, and the week is mundane. One should at kiddush separate Shabbat from the other days, at the entrance and at the exit. At the entrance one separates from Friday, one sanctifies from Friday, and at the exit one separates and distinguishes from Sunday.

Yes, that means I’m saying, one could have said at kiddush “who has separated Shabbat from Friday.” One doesn’t say it that way. It’s still, when it comes one speaks of kiddush, and when it goes one speaks of havdalah. Because according to the Rambam both are built on the same idea of “to mention its holiness at its entrance and at its exit.”

If so, it appears here that havdalah is also from the Torah. Yes, so it is almost clear in the Rambam. Other authorities strongly disagree, because there is in the Gemara an implication that havdalah is rabbinic. Okay, we’ll soon see.

What is Biblical and What is Rabbinic in Kiddush

Speaker 1: But let’s say clearly, if we’re talking that there is a biblical mitzvah, one needs to know which part is biblical. That means, we’ll already see in the next law that the wine is certainly rabbinic. And I think that even more, even in the next law, the text apparently is rabbinic, right? Because the Rambam says that the Rabbis instituted a text for kiddush hayom.

The Rambam will say, this is the text of kiddush hayom, how one says kiddush when Shabbat comes in. One says “Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe, who has sanctified us with His commandments and desired us”. “Who has sanctified us with His commandments” – one begins like a blessing over mitzvot. A blessing over mitzvot on the mitzvah of kiddush. Interesting, because kiddush itself is a mitzvah. One doesn’t say a blessing over mitzvot on keeping Shabbat.

Speaker 2: It’s not a blessing over mitzvot. It’s a blessing of praise.

Speaker 1: Yes, but it does have the text of “who has sanctified us with His commandments.”

Speaker 2: Yes, but that text is just a nice text. One may say it at kiddush too.

Speaker 1: No, perhaps they also already included that one should fulfill with this the concept of a blessing over mitzvot on Shabbat. Isn’t there a blessing over mitzvot on Shabbat?

Speaker 2: Because there is a biblical law of kiddush, and there is also a law that all mitzvot have a blessing.

Speaker 1: So they included that in this there should be a language, a language of a blessing over mitzvot.

Speaker 2: I don’t know. Okay.

Explanation of the Text: “Who Has Sanctified Us with His Commandments and Desired Us”

Speaker 1: “Who has sanctified us with His commandments and desired us” – God desired us, His will is with us.

Speaker 2: “And desired us” means the same thing as “chose us.”

Speaker 1: Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: He chose us. That is the meaning.

Speaker 1: “And His holy Shabbat with love He gave us as a heritage”. “His holy Shabbat,” the Shabbat day which is holy, which is already holy to God.

Speaker 2: His Shabbat.

Speaker 1: Because He sanctified it.

Speaker 2: “For on it He rested.”

Speaker 1: “And He sanctified it,” it says. “His holy Shabbat,” God sanctified Shabbat. It’s not just… Not we make Shabbat holy, but God.

Speaker 2: Ah, unlike festivals.

Speaker 1: “And His holy Shabbat with love He gave us as a heritage,” He gave us with love. So it says there that God gave the giving of the Torah, God gave it as a love for the Jews, as a gift for the Jews.

Speaker 2: Yes, all mitzvot God gave with love, don’t worry.

Speaker 1: That means, as, yes, the Rambam said at the beginning that there are heretics who say that the mitzvot are a punishment. That one says that God gave mitzvot in anger. But the Jews’ Shabbat, “and rest on it is obligatory,” God gave Shabbat with love.

It’s interesting the language “gave us as a heritage,” as if there are other mitzvot that have such language. He bequeathed us, as if, He gave us as an inheritance, He gave us as a gift. One says “Your heritage with us is Torah and mitzvot,” such language exists. It’s very similar to like “eternal life He planted within us,” “He gave us.”

Speaker 2: “A memorial to the work of Creation.” Heritage has to do with the fact that the forefathers, okay, not even that it’s only by inheritance, it’s something that is a heritage.

Speaker 1: Okay, further, “A memorial to the work of Creation”. Shabbat is a memorial to the work of Creation. So it says in the Torah that the seven days, six days God did the work, and on Shabbat He rested. One should remember the day of rest from completing the work of Creation. The language doesn’t say.

Text of Kiddush and Havdalah – Explanation of the Rambam

Memorial to the Work of Creation and Memorial to the Exodus from Egypt

Speaker 1:

It says many times “for six days,” and “and they shall keep,” and “to light a candle,” and again “memorial.”

Yes, it doesn’t say. By the Exodus from Egypt it says “memorial,” but by the work of Creation, I don’t remember that it should say “to remember the work of Creation.” But so the siddur understands that it is a memorial to the work of Creation.

Okay.

First of the Holy Convocations

“First of the holy convocations.” Shabbat is the first of all festivals, the first holy convocation when we come together for a matter of holiness, when the Jews are called together for holiness. It’s before all other festivals, Shabbat is older than the other festivals.

I mean the Hebrew meaning is that in Parshat Emor it says “these are the Lord’s appointed times, holy convocations,” and the first thing mentioned is Shabbat. It’s the first in the Torah, it’s the first which is also frequent, and it’s also the first that we received before the giving of the Torah.

Memorial to the Exodus from Egypt – The Connection to Shabbat

“A memorial to the Exodus from Egypt.” It’s both, it’s a memorial to the work of Creation and it’s a memorial to the Exodus from Egypt. There it indeed says, “so that you shall remember.”

Remember, is there a difference between zachor and zachor? I don’t know. Zachor happened by itself, and zachor one must mention. I don’t know, one must know.

But here it indeed says, it says “and you shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt” in the second tablets. It explicitly says “therefore,” it says the language “and you shall remember.” That means, perhaps from this one can learn, if in one tablet it says “for six days,” and in the second it says “and you shall remember,” it says there also that it’s a remembrance. But it doesn’t say explicitly.

And as we learned, every blessing goes like this, one begins… It could be that the remembrance of the work of Creation is more “natural,” that as if it mentions itself, because Shabbat is the day of rest. Memorial to the Exodus from Egypt is something that one must mention, yes? “And you shall remember,” one must exert oneself in remembering, because it doesn’t lie in the word or in the essence of rest, through the fact that the slave rests and the like.

It’s not clear, that means, how does Shabbat lie in resting on Shabbat? Because Shabbat is equal to “for six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,” and also “because He took us out of Egypt and commanded us to rest.” But the Exodus from Egypt has nothing to do with Shabbat, but something that doesn’t, and what connection does it have with Shabbat? One should explain.

I say, because Shabbat is the seventh day when God then rested, it’s very close. And the Exodus from Egypt is added, that the slave is also in rest, this reminds us of Egypt. That is one interpretation that you say.

Speaker 2:

The question is what you translate “therefore,” that means “and you shall remember that you were a slave,” it’s there.

Speaker 1:

One can say the simple interpretation, or one must look at what the Rambam says is the interpretation about this. But the simple interpretation I would have said a very simple thing: God took us out of Egypt, and we go to give Him praise and thanksgiving on Shabbat. It’s not that one must add. It’s not that it makes as much sense as God commands him to make Passover because He took us out of Egypt, and you also go Shabbat because He took us out of Egypt. As all mitzvot it says about this memorial to the Exodus from Egypt on such mitzvot.

Structure of the Kiddush Blessing – Three Parts

Further, that they learned that every blessing has like this three parts. There is a beginning, “Blessed are You, Lord.” Then it usually goes in third person language, “who,” what He did, or “who brings forth,” whatever He did. Then, in a long blessing, there is always a conclusion. But before the conclusion one returns to second person language.

Almost every blessing comes with a “for.” I mean that even every blessing, every long blessing, almost every long blessing, comes with such an ending that leads us back to the topic of existence and stands over the “for You have chosen us” words. “And commanded us in Your commandments,” Your holy Shabbat repeats the “with love You gave us as a heritage.” It repeats, and now one can say the conclusion on this.

“For You Have Chosen Us and Sanctified Us from All Peoples”

“For You have chosen us and sanctified us from all peoples, and Your holy Shabbat with love and favor You gave us as a heritage.” It was “with love and favor.” “Blessed are You, Lord, who sanctifies the Shabbat.”

Very good. So also interesting, because in the previous one he once didn’t match “with love and favor.” We say “with love and favor,” and here we say indeed the same. Because here there is indeed the hint, apparently the “and desired us.” “Sanctified us and desired us.” But earlier one doesn’t need to say it, because you just a minute ago said “and desired us,” so you don’t need to say again “with love and favor.” But we say indeed twice “with love and favor.” Presumably it came from here, “with love and favor,” “with love and favor,” “You gave us as a heritage,” “You gave us as a heritage.”

Discussion: The Holiness of Shabbat – God and Us

So you see something also like God chose us, God chose us, and we choose God’s Shabbat.

Speaker 2:

No, how do you see? Because Shabbat is holy, God makes us holy, and we make Shabbat holy. How do you see that?

Speaker 1:

But I don’t understand. We speak of what God sanctified. God sanctified us, and…

Speaker 2:

Yes, when one does this one sanctifies the Shabbat.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that is the proof Shabbat is sanctified. We speak of the holiness of Shabbat, we speak of what God sanctified Shabbat, sanctified the Jews and gave them His holy Shabbat.

Speaker 2:

True.

Speaker 1:

“Blessed are You, Lord, who sanctifies the Shabbat.”

Very good. This is the text of kiddush.

Text of the Havdalah Blessing

And now the Rambam will say the text of the havdalah blessing.

“For You Have Chosen Us” in Havdalah – Dispute of Texts

In our text, I mean those who say the Ari text, supposedly, don’t say “for You have chosen us,” in any case some Jews. I mean in Lubavitch one says it yes. But anyways, in all old texts that Shibolei HaLeket mentions it, and it must be so, because as one says every blessing has like an ending that says “for.” It almost doesn’t fit the text of the blessing without this.

The reason why the mekubalim from Salonika and the Romanians removed it is because they found that it says in the Zohar that there are thirty-five words in the blessing of kiddush, and they couldn’t find any way to make thirty-five. But I think that if you count the words, you shouldn’t count “Baruch atah Hashem Elokeinu melech ha’olam,” it’s the same in every blessing. If you count the text in the Rambam, you see that from here there are thirty-five words. If you take out the first “ahavah v’ratzon,” it comes out. So presumably the Zohar was talking about this, you don’t have to make the adjustment to remove a piece.

Speaker 2:

Aha, interesting.

Speaker 1:

And on yom tov they did leave the language “kra’at,” because there it doesn’t fit the number of words.

Okay. This is the Rambam. You always have the problem that the text of the Rambam should match the number of words that appears in…

It’s interesting that the Rambam already learned Sefer Ahavah. The Rambam writes the texts of everything, he made a siddur. But here you see for example by kiddush, he wrote the text by the mitzvah of kiddush, not in his siddur.

Yes, we see it in havdalah, yes?

Text of Havdalah – Four Distinctions

Havdalah is like this: “Baruch atah Hashem Elokeinu melech ha’olam hamavdil.” The Almighty is mavdil. He makes distinctions between kodesh and chol, between light and darkness, between Israel and the nations, and between the seventh day and the six days of creation. Good. And then one says “Baruch atah Hashem hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol.”

Discussion: Why Four Distinctions?

Interesting thing, yes, because light and darkness is the distinction in nature. When there is light there is no darkness. Nature makes such a distinction. The other things, kodesh and chol, the Almighty already made earlier, in the language, the Almighty was already mekadesh. As if it lies in nature. But actually it also lies in us, with what we make Shabbat. And the same thing Israel and the nations, with what we do the mitzvot. The Almighty gave the mitzvot, the Almighty gave the distinction of Israel and the nations.

Speaker 2:

In the Rambam it says goyim, where does it say amim? What’s the difference?

Speaker 1:

It’s the same thing, anyway, right?

Speaker 2:

Right. Goyim and amim is the same thing, right? A goy is a nation.

Speaker 1:

Yes. Are you saying there’s a difference?

This is the text. Hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol.

Now, he says, but when do you say this kiddush? What’s the concept? Why do you mention there the four things? Why don’t you just say “hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol”? Why do you throw in light and Israel?

Speaker 2:

As if, the light and darkness also means to hint at something that the Jews are like light? It has something… the eternal light is the soul.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no. It says in the Gemara. There are even more things in the Gemara. The Gemara says that you can think of more distinctions that exist in nature, that the Almighty created everything. That the Almighty made. And… I don’t know. There’s perhaps a secret in this. But there’s certainly a secret.

As if, what do they want to say? That the distinction between Shabbat and the six days of creation is very essential, is very deep, like light and darkness.

I would want to think more like Rashi brings in Parshat Korach, right? There’s a problem like as if, why is today the week and then Shabbat? The Almighty made all kinds of distinctions. The whole world is built, I mean it brings out more the topic that in the world there are many, as Rashi says, “yachiru nachri hakadosh baruch hu.” There are different distinctions in the world, not everything is the same. You can’t say that everything is holy, not everything is chol. Who made it? The Almighty.

But it brings out, there’s a general topic of havdalah. In Parshat Bereishit you see this essentially, that “vayavdel,” there’s more, “vayavdel bein harakia bein hamayim.” The Almighty, there are souls, and the Gemara mentions the souls that one mentions this, right? There’s a fundamental thing in the world that there are these distinctions. That not everything is the same.

So it makes sense that they say in reality, as if, because we can now make chol. Perhaps a person enjoyed Shabbat so much, let it remain Shabbat forever. No, it’s also important that Shabbat should be distinct, that there should specifically be one day Shabbat, and we should have six days chol.

I always say to all those hashkafa people who say that you have to have the same enthusiasm of Shabbat for a whole week and yom tov, that according to them you’re not allowed to make havdalah. Havdalah says no, it happened on Shabbat, Shabbat is over. And the Almighty makes it that this is how the world goes.

So therefore you say it in reality, you mention the distinction between kodesh and chol. When you entered Shabbat you completely forgot, as if, you come in with enthusiasm. Now you say, you escort the Shabbat, it’s ending. A conclusion essentially, as you say, you escort the same, because kodesh, now is kodesh and yesterday is not.

But he doesn’t say it clearly. I would say that also the list of distinctions is because he’s speaking in a general way about the sweetness of havdalah. Just as you can say by Shabbat, he speaks about the sweetness of kedushah, he speaks about the Almighty being mekadesh the Jews, he would make ten kedushos to count more things that the Almighty was mekadesh. He would say, it could be Shabbat a Jew must give rest to his servants, to his Canaanite servants. And now on motzaei he begins to make the sweetness.

Kiddush and Havdalah – Times, Prohibitions, and Orders

Law 6 (continued) – Main Kiddush at Night, Havdalah Until End of Fourth Day

Speaker 1:

We spoke about the same, because now is kodesh, and yesterday is not. But it’s not said clearly. I want to say that also in the list of distinctions is because one speaks in a general way about the mitzvah of havdalah. Just as you can say by Shabbat, one speaks about the mitzvah of kedushah, one speaks about the Almighty being mekadesh the Jews, one would make a census to count more things that the Almighty was mekadesh.

I would say, it could be that on Shabbat a Jew must give rest to his servants, his Canaanite servants. And now on motzaei he begins to make a great distinction between the Jews and the non-Jews. On Shabbat the non-Jew also sat on a couch and ate cholent. Motzaei, now begins the distinction. The Almighty gave Shabbat to the Jews. The Rambam doesn’t say that you have to give the Canaanite servant to rest, by the way. I mean, aside from the topic of… “shorcha vachamorcha v’chol behemtecha,” “shorcha vachamorcha v’avdecha.” A Canaanite servant is a Jew, I mean, I have no problem. We’re talking about a servant who is a non-Jew, a ger toshav. You hear the Rambam. Okay, there’s a topic, an inquiry.

Anyway, I say, the Rambam says, the main kiddush is at night. If he didn’t make kiddush at night, he makes kiddush throughout the entire day. The main thing when kiddush was established is that it should be said at night. But b’dieved, if he didn’t make kiddush at night, whether he did it accidentally or deliberately, he didn’t make kiddush at night, he makes kiddush throughout the entire day, you can make kiddush during the day.

That means, why is the main kiddush at night? Because it makes an interesting thing, it makes a distinction. Like simply, like simply, the Rambam said. And a whole night means at its entrance. There isn’t perhaps a stringency, perhaps a beautification to make kiddush early, and right when it comes in. It doesn’t matter, it doesn’t look like there’s perhaps such a distinction.

Yes, and if he didn’t make havdalah at night, and also havdalah, is at the exit, and if he didn’t make havdalah at night he makes havdalah the next day. Until when can you make havdalah? He makes havdalah until the end of the fourth day. Half a week. Interesting.

Discussion: Why Havdalah Only Until Wednesday?

Speaker 1:

That means, kiddush you can only until the end of Shabbat, because after that it’s not Shabbat. Understand? I ask, why can’t you… ah, you can’t, it’s Shabbat. But havdalah is weekday, weekday is a whole week. So why can’t you make havdalah a whole week? Why until Wednesday? Yes.

But the answer is like this, after Wednesday it’s no longer called Shabbat. Until Wednesday still comes in the new week. Wednesday the week has already arrived, most of the week has already come in. So it’s no longer a problem, because also on Shabbat afterwards, if you have an opinion that you can still make kiddush if you didn’t make it, it’s also only until Wednesday. After Wednesday you no longer see the havdalah, it’s no longer Shabbat, Shabbat is already “distant history,” you’ve already forgotten about it.

Blessing on Fire – Only Motzaei Shabbat

Speaker 1:

Very good. The Rambam says, until here the Rambam hasn’t yet told us that havdalah is on fire, but here he throws in a point, that the custom that you make on fire, this you can’t do until Wednesday. But he only blesses on the fire on motzaei Shabbat alone. But one who blesses on the fire, that you also make the blessing on a fire and you make a blessing on it, this you only do motzaei Shabbat alone. The fire has no sense to make later, it has nothing to do with havdalah, it has to do specifically with motzaei Shabbat, because the fire was created then, “whatever,” some “reason.” That’s how it looks. And the same is also perhaps with spices, by spices it doesn’t disturb, you can make borei minei besamim whenever you want. Ah, it’s a birkat hanehenin now.

Law 7 – Prohibition of Eating and Drinking Before Kiddush and Havdalah

Speaker 1:

Further the Rambam says like this, now there’s a stringency that was established when you should make the kiddush, you shouldn’t make any interruption, that you’re not allowed to eat before kiddush. It’s forbidden for a person to eat and drink wine, specifically wine, you shouldn’t drink any wine and eat from when the day becomes holy, from when it becomes Shabbat, until he makes kiddush, from when the day becomes holy because it became night, until when the person is mekadesh it with kiddush.

And likewise, this is the law by kiddush. The same thing by motzaei Shabbat, from when the day goes out it’s forbidden for him to begin to eat and drink and do work or taste anything until he makes havdalah. He says it a bit differently, earlier he said “to eat,” here he says “to begin.” We’ll soon see the explanation. To begin to eat and drink and do work or taste anything until he makes havdalah. When the day goes out, you also shouldn’t drink or become busy with other things.

I mean the “to begin” is simple, because usually at seudah shlishit on Shabbat afternoon you eat, so right afterwards, Shabbat has gone out, you shouldn’t begin to eat then. By the way, erev Shabbat also has such a thing, that a person is already eating then, and we’ll see the law later.

We’ll go further later, there’s a distinction of can you continue the meal, you won’t be able to continue the meal. Do that then say, it’s simply not the way.

Drinking Water is Permitted

Speaker 1:

Okay. And the Rambam says, the prohibition to drink was to drink wine…

Speaker 2:

That means both before kiddush and before havdalah.

Speaker 1:

Yes, drinking water is permitted. Simply water is permitted. To drink water. It could be water is the water that you drink, the Rambam says you shouldn’t drink in the middle of the meal, you should drink before it, the water that you drink before the meal…

Speaker 2:

One.

Speaker 1:

But this here, there are those who say, on Shabbat you drink from the well of Miriam, and the water that you drink, I mean that you should make the generations on some hair that will tear, on some hair, but I understand what, I don’t know what is here. Yes, yes, I understand, fine. Very good. Forget above.

Speaker 2:

Mmm.

Discussion: Does “Drinking Water is Permitted” Also Apply to Kiddush?

Speaker 1:

Here there’s a dispute about this, whether this is also true for kiddush? In Shulchan Aruch it says that before kiddush you shouldn’t drink even water, but before havdalah yes. So it could be that drinking water only goes on havdalah?

Speaker 2:

But he said to drink wine, to drink wine, presumably so.

Speaker 1:

Okay, but what do you do…

Forgot and Ate – Not Invalidating

Speaker 2:

Forgot,

Speaker 1:

…he forgot about the prohibition of drinking… He forgot, of eating and drinking before kiddush or havdalah. One who forgot and ate and drank before he made kiddush or before he made havdalah…

Speaker 2:

Mmm.

Speaker 1:

It’s not invalidating, it doesn’t make now, it doesn’t change the law, but he makes kiddush and havdalah after he eats, when he remembers he should then make kiddush and havdalah.

Speaker 2:

What did he mean? Because kiddush is on the meal as if? In this?

Speaker 1:

Soon we’ll talk about kiddush after the meal, it’s not yet learned, meanwhile we’ve still learned that you have to make kiddush.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

You already know. Until now we’ve learned it about the essence of the blessing of kiddush. The spirit the Rambam will say that there’s an additional mitzvah from the Sages…

Speaker 2:

Mmm.

Law 8 (beginning) – Kiddush and Havdalah on Wine, According to the Sages

Speaker 1:

…ah the kiddush should be done on wine. You should do it over a cup of blessing. This meanwhile the havdalah should be on wine. According to the words of the Sages, to make kiddush on wine and to make havdalah on wine.

Speaker 2:

Mmm.

Speaker 1:

What’s the concept of this? It’s an honor for the blessing, the blessing is said more beautifully this way?

Speaker 2:

But you know the story with the Jew who eats he wants to make a shehakol, he wants to sleep on something and he drinks a glass of brandy, because a Jew makes a shehakol comes brandy. But when a Jew makes kiddush comes a glass of wine. Such joy. It’s tasty.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

It’s something of importance, it makes the blessing more important, such a thing.

Speaker 1:

Yes, but it’s joy, no no no not. Honor you can say, because if he drinks wine it’s a tasty thing.

Speaker 2:

Yes. Yes.

Law 8 (continued) – Havdalah in Prayer vs. On the Cup, Work After Havdalah in Prayer

Speaker 1:

Even if he made havdalah in prayer, the Rambam says, also havdalah is a law. He says, even if he made havdalah in prayer, even if he already made havdalah in prayer, he doesn’t speak about kiddush. He doesn’t say that there’s such a thing as kiddush in prayer. Interesting.

Discussion: Why Isn’t There Kiddush in Prayer?

Speaker 1:

Why isn’t there such a thing as kiddush? There too you say in prayer “mekadesh haShabbat.” Doesn’t it occur to the Rambam that this is a solution? But by havdalah he says it? Interesting. Do you understand the question? Yes.

It could be that by kiddush perhaps the person doesn’t think. The person thinks that this is the text of the prayer of the night. But havdalah, this is really an extra piece that was put in only for havdalah. There’s some significance. I see that he doesn’t bring that there’s some implication.

Perhaps kiddush wasn’t once a kiddush in prayer. Perhaps there really isn’t such a thing as kiddush in prayer. Whereas havdalah there is in the Gemara such a text of prayer for Friday night. Yes, this is something with kiddush. No, it’s not extra kiddush. I’m not just telling you that it doesn’t matter, but it’s really not. It could be that it’s not really correct that there’s such a thing as kiddush on the cup.

By havdalah they specifically added a text of havdalah in the prayer. The kiddush of night is essentially the text of the prayer of Shabbat night. It’s also, it says in the Gemara that havdalah was first established this way, then they added the cup, then they took it back. There was some such progression. But kiddush, this is the kiddush. The enactment of kiddush was initially that you should make it. From the Torah it’s not with wine, but the Sages initially established that after davening you should say kiddush.

Permitted to Do Work After Havdalah in Prayer

Speaker 1:

“Even if he made havdalah in prayer he needs to make havdalah on the cup”, the Rambam says, “and after he makes havdalah”. That means, now he says a detail, not what you said before. Before you said that you’re not allowed to do any work or eat, I don’t know, you said eat. You’re not allowed to do any work before havdalah. He says, you shouldn’t think that this also goes on the havdalah on the cup. That which you have to make havdalah on the cup, this is not invalidating regarding work. It’s only an obligation that you have to make havdalah on the cup. Perhaps you’re not allowed to eat, but the work you may do.

Discussion: What Does “And He Says Hamavdil” Mean?

Speaker 2:

No, it looks here, “and he says hamavdil,” does he mean he says the full blessing with the name and kingship?

Speaker 1:

No, “after he makes havdalah” is in prayer. “After he makes havdalah” in prayer, or in any case, once he is mavdil, “and he says hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol”, yes, it could be that you can answer him that this is usual. Is it in prayer, no? Right. Yes. It’s permitted to do work even if he didn’t make havdalah on the cup. You see here how he says exactly the blessing. So the people who conduct themselves to say baruch hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol they still haven’t fulfilled havdalah, it’s not with name and kingship. It could be the opposite, I don’t know, he presumably brings a Mishnah that what you say a blessing with a blessing, yes. Not clear. The custom is like the later poskim say that you say baruch, but… It’s simply speaking here about havdalah in prayer. After you say that this is an extra thing of havdalah in prayer, there too he says baruch hamavdil.

Speaker 2:

Lecture on Laws of Kiddush and Havdalah

No, it’s interesting, because earlier when we learned that one may not do any melacha (work), it seemed to mean like in order not to forget, just like one may not eat. Not that the havdalah permits you to do melacha. The melacha is permitted because Shabbos has ended. It’s still like that. Here it looks like one is permitted to do melacha because he already said “Baruch hamavdil,” but he will still say it with full shem umalchus (God’s name and kingship). He’s speaking according to those who say that with “hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol” they have fulfilled their obligation. But he will still say the full blessing. Over the wine, why did he need to do it over the wine? No, because there’s an obligation of havdalah over wine. Havdalah over wine is not me’akev (does not prevent)… it does not prevent the melacha. He didn’t have to say it because he was being metaken (fixing/establishing). But the essence of havdalah – he had already fulfilled his obligation, it’s not even like that.

Discussion: What is the concept of the prohibition of melacha before havdalah?

Speaker 1:

No, but what is the concept of not doing melacha? So that you shouldn’t forget to make havdalah. It’s like why one may not eat beforehand. Lest one be drawn away (shema yimashech). And the Rambam placed it right next to eating, that this is one type of thing, it’s one category. Not that this permits melacha.

No, no, it doesn’t mean doing melacha, it means work. It doesn’t mean doing melacha from the 39 melachos. It means that it’s clear that you can’t now light the lights before havdalah. What you have a prohibition is to work, to do things. You’re like busy now with something, because it will drag you away. Therefore he placed it next to the matter of eating.

Question: Why doesn’t the Rambam say that one may also eat?

Speaker 1:

Okay, and then now… But what he comes in here is only to say that the obligation of havdalah over the cup is not me’akev regarding this. Now the Rambam will say how one does the order of kiddush and havdalah. He doesn’t say, for example, may one also eat after one says “hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol,” may one also eat? He doesn’t say, no. Seemingly, if the reason why one may not do melacha is that it would drag him away from this. Seemingly he should also have begun [saying] one may eat. No, why not? You see that he tells you. You see that havdalah over the cup is not me’akev.

Laws of Kiddush: Order of Kiddush, Kiddush at the Place of the Meal, and Kiddush over Bread

Question: Eating after “Hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol”

Speaker 1: May one also eat? After one has said “hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol,” may one also eat? Seemingly, if the reason why one may not do any melacha is because he will become, you want to drag him away from this, seemingly he should also have only begun being able to eat. No? Why not?

Speaker 2: You see what I’m telling you? The point is that havdalah over the cup is not me’akev. It’s not me’akev the… It began that one may not do anything, one may not eat and drink or do melacha, so they shouldn’t forget to what…

Speaker 1: You’ve inserted a reason, but it doesn’t say so.

Speaker 2: In any case, it doesn’t say that one may.

Speaker 1: I know it doesn’t say so, but one must think why indeed did they make a distinction regarding doing melacha that one permitted it after one says “hamavdil bein kodesh l’chol”?

Speaker 2: I can understand, it’s not so complicated. Not so complicated, but it’s not clear. It’s a bit… the problem must stand.

Speaker 1: Yes, but Yom Kippur is like that for the beginning of eating, and that has nothing to do with this.

Halacha 29: Order of Kiddush – Blessing over Wine Before Blessing of Kiddush

Speaker 2: Okay, now, how does one do this? What is the order? The order of kiddush is, one blesses over the wine first, first one should make a blessing of the wine, borei pri hagafen, and afterwards he says the blessing of kiddush or the blessing of sanctification, and one does not wash for the meal until after kiddush. One washes the hands only after kiddush. He says, yes, they should wash for the meal after kiddush, not that one should wash and begin kiddush and afterwards make [the blessing over] bread, but the washing of hands should be between kiddush and the meal.

Details of How to Make Kiddush

The Rambam explains, “How should he do it,” he says like this: Here he will say more details of the custom of how one performs the mitzvah of kiddush. “He takes a cup that holds a revi’is”, one takes a cup that is at least a revi’is, “and rinses it inside and washes it outside”. One washes it out.

It’s interesting that Hebrew has a special word for washing inside and a special word for washing from outside. Yes? There’s an important distinction, because inside there is dirt. “Shotfo” means one pours it over. Inside there is dirt, and outside is not simple. The simple meaning is, inside one must wash it out. Medi’ach from what was there before. There was before in it wine or something, not just an inside, outside, the usual inside remained from last time when one drank, outside is for beauty or something else.

And fills it with wine, one fills the cup, and holds it in his right hand. It looks here like it must be full, yes? The Rambam is hinting here “full of wine,” it’s not enough that just a half cup, it must be full to the top. Just as the cup is full, yes. And holds it in his right hand, one grasps it with the right hand, and lifts it from the ground or from the table – here we’re talking about the ground in the manner when people used to eat the meal on the floor – one lifts it a tefach or more, and one should hold it in the hand, and should not assist with the left, he should not also add the left hand to help hold the cup. One should hold it only in the right hand, and blesses over the wine and afterwards makes kiddush.

Speaker 1: Yes, what is the concept of why should it be “should not assist with the left”?

Speaker 2: The importance. The importance is not to help, the importance is holding it with the right hand.

Speaker 1: No, no, he doesn’t make any compromises. If one is right-handed, one is right-handed, one doesn’t make compromises that a little “assist with the left.”

Speaker 2: The Rambam says further, “A widespread custom throughout the world” – ah, he brings another, he brings a more logical reason, he leads you like this, which looks like a burden. That is, one must hold the cup in one hand easily, if one holds it with two hands, it looks exactly like you’re struggling. Not just simply about the matter of the right hand, the “should not assist with the left” is an extra thing, that it looks like you’re dragging yourself. Okay.

Custom of “Vayechulu”

He says, “A widespread custom throughout the world to read first” – before one says the blessing over wine, before the first blessing one says “Vayechulu,” “Vayechulu hashamayim,” and afterwards blesses over the wine, and afterwards makes kiddush. And after that, “and drinks a full cheekful”, one drinks a full cheekful, “and gives all the members of the group to drink”, one gives everyone to drink, and only after that, after everyone has drunk, “and afterwards washes his hands and blesses hamotzi and eats”.

It’s very interesting, “widespread custom,” and think, the widespread custom doesn’t appear in the Gemara, it doesn’t say in the Gemara that one says “Vayechulu.” All Jews conduct themselves this way, but it’s not a law, not even like something that appears in the Gemara that one must do. Do you understand what I mean? A custom throughout the world, there is such a concept called the custom of all Israel or of the whole world.

Speaker 1: He says it doesn’t appear in the Geonim, it appears in the Geonim the custom. Interesting.

Speaker 2: I think it appears in the Gemara that the concept that one should say verses of the day while one drinks, that it comes from that. It’s in the hands and such things appear in the Gemara. Simply the concept is because one wants to mention the verse “and God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it,” there appears the word “kiddush,” “vayekadesh.”

Speaker 1: Yes, but generally, one brings the verses of kiddush from Shabbos.

Speaker 2: It makes sense. One doesn’t put “Veshamru,” one puts the verse where it says there “vayevarech vayekadesh,” which brings out the concept of blessing the day and sanctifying the day. It also makes sense, it would even make sense that one should insert it in the blessing. I don’t know why one doesn’t say the verse in the blessing. “Vayedaber Moshe,” one doesn’t do, one says it beforehand, essentially like that.

Halacha 30: Kiddush at the Place of the Meal

Okay, now, until now we have learned that the Rambam hasn’t yet said here that kiddush is connected with a meal. We didn’t know it. One finishes kiddush, “and afterwards washes his hands and blesses,” because we only knew that when it comes in, there is a mitzvah of kiddush. But later he will tell us that kiddush is connected with a meal. This is a new law. One must then make the meal, not that one can, I could have said before, if I want to eat, I must eat at that meal. He says that no, one must.

Simply it has to do with kiddush over wine, not with the essence of kiddush. The fact that it’s a blessing over wine, wine is a connection. It’s not just that one should drink a glass of wine, but the glass of wine should be connected with a meal. Then the glass of wine comes in well, it has a connection. And havdalah one must think whether havdalah has a connection with the meal from before or after. It comes in, we will discuss, but here is a law that kiddush should be at the place of the meal.

How? One should not make kiddush in this house, what does “at the place of the meal” mean? In the same house where one eats. How? One should not make kiddush in this house and eat in another house. One may not make kiddush in one house and eat in another house. But it doesn’t mean exactly like I know for example regarding Pesach, that it must be exactly with the group at that table. I made kiddush in the hall, I will eat in the hall. It should be in the house. It should make a bit of a connection to the meal.

Kiddush in the Synagogue – For the Guests

The Rambam asks, according to this, if kiddush is only at the place of the meal, why do we see that one makes kiddush in the synagogue after davening? Besides the kiddush that was already mentioned that one says in prayer, there is a custom that when one finishes davening, more or less you know, in the beis medrash one makes, one says kiddush. Why does one make kiddush? The synagogue is not kiddush at the place of the meal, it’s not a good kiddush.

He says, it is a good kiddush, because the kiddush has a connection with the meal that comes in the beis medrash. The guests, the guests slept in the synagogue, Friday night there were guests who ate in the beis medrash. So this is the reason why one makes kiddush afterwards.

The Rambam knew, I mean he brings, it already appears in, one already talks about this, the Rambam brings a responsum of the Rambam that this is the reason for the enactment. The custom has remained. Ah, the custom has remained already, but the Rambam says that the custom began, that the original, the essence of the custom is for the guests. So it has remained, but essentially when there are no guests, it’s indeed not a good kiddush, because it’s not kiddush at the place of the meal. Essentially one fulfills one’s obligation, but there is a problem of kiddush at the place of the meal. Very good.

Digression: Kiddush in Chassidic Batei Medrash

Speaker 1: And what happens in a Chassidic beis medrash?

Speaker 2: One doesn’t know about this custom at all. It’s an old custom from the times of the Gemara until the times of the Baal Shem Tov. I don’t know what it has to do with Chassidus, but it appears in the poskim, one indeed questioned what a person who doesn’t make kiddush. It’s interesting, because by the Chassidim the synagogue is the most place of kiddush at the place of the meal. One goes there to make the tish.

Speaker 1: It could be that the tish caused that the kiddush, the kiddush is not there.

Speaker 2: No, but before the kiddush, before the tish one makes kiddush. So perhaps with this one fulfills the custom of making kiddush in the synagogue.

Speaker 1: No, the Gemara speaks of Ashkenaz.

Speaker 2: In the Lithuanian yeshivos they also don’t do it. But in Ashkenaz, yes, every original Jewish shul, Ashkenazic shul or a Sephardic one, makes kiddush Friday night after davening in the beis medrash. And also motzaei Shabbos havdalah, it seems, in the beis medrash.

Speaker 1: Yes, I think so.

Speaker 2: Very good.

Halacha 30 (continued): Kiddush over Bread

Already, the Rambam says, the law that one makes it over wine is generally, but if one desires bread more than wine, if a person likes bread more than wine, yes, or if he has no wine, or if he didn’t have any wine, even if he didn’t say the reason, simply he didn’t have any wine. Then he must first wash his hands, then the order is different. The main point is, then one makes kiddush over the bread, but different from what was said before that one washes only after kiddush for the bread, there is another way, that one washes before the bread. Then he must first wash his hands, bless hamotzi, make kiddush, and afterwards break, and then he cuts the bread. There is such a concept that kiddush should be after the bread is whole, and afterwards one cuts it for eating. Very good.

Havdalah Only Over a Cup, Not Over Bread

But this is only for kiddush. Havdalah one cannot even make over bread and over a cup. By havdalah there is no option of “one does not make havdalah over bread,” havdalah should not be over bread, but over the cup. Why?

“Bachaviusa talya milsa” – The Essence of Kiddush over Bread

Speaker 1: The question immediately comes, what is the meaning of “and if he desires bread more than wine”? Wine is a way of making kiddush.

Speaker 2: No, he says that not. He says that one does it over which thing is important. Very good. It appears in the Gemara in Pesachim that Rav Rabbi Yitzchak, I don’t remember exactly, repeated in the name of Rav, that he was many times by Rav at the table, and he saw like this, that if Rav liked the bread more, he made kiddush over the bread, and if he liked the wine more, he made kiddush over the wine. Understand?

And therefore the Rav says, “bachaviusa talya milsa.” This is the principle, “bachaviusa talya milsa” (it depends on what is beloved). From this language comes the Zohar. It’s a metaphor from this language, “bachaviusa talya milsa.” It was a different time, it was a time in the Gemara that depended on praise, that if one had already washed, then one must make kiddush over wine, and if one had not, l’chatchila one should remember not to wash. But the Rav says no, l’chatchila one may make kiddush over bread if it is more beloved to him. So Rav already held that it’s not something about the order of blessings, but it’s a matter of one takes something important, and it should have a connection with a certain piece of the meal.

Yes. The Zohar learned the laws of kiddush when he began writing in the Zohar, he remembered the language “bachaviusa talya milsa.” He begins right away in the beginning of the Zohar it says, “Come and see, the foundation of kiddush,” and he begins with the Rav’s language.

Anyway, I need to check if someone has noted this piece of the Rav. I think that we already noted last time what they learned, but I already remember when one caught it for him. But specifically they should make a chiddush from our chiddush.

Moral Lesson: A Jew Must Love the Mitzvos

What do we learn from this? That a Jew must love the mitzvos. One cannot do things that one doesn’t love. If one doesn’t love wine, for example, I hold that it’s clear that…

Kiddush Over Wine and Over Bread – Laws 10 to 11

Halacha 10 – One Who Intended to Make Kiddush Over Wine and Forgot and Washed His Hands

Speaker 1:

Yes, I begin right at the beginning, so appears the beginning of the secrets of kiddush. Yes, what is the beginning of the Rebbe’s language. Anyway, I need to check if anyone has noted this piece of Rashi. I think that in the language it’s not noticeable, but I think I had someone who had it. Well, I need to be that it’s a chiddush.

What do we learn from this? So, you must love the mitzvos, you cannot do things that you don’t love. And if you don’t love wine, fine, I hold that it’s clear that…

So, you will drink grape juice that doesn’t have any alcohol, but you will do it. You will make kiddush over bread, just as the holy Rav did. It’s not a matter of eating and drinking grape juice. Okay, the importance of the grape juice is that you’re doing a mitzvah. Okay, fine. Further. By you everything is in order, I’m telling you what to do.

Anyway, further. I have here a question, I have here a difficulty. What is the concept of specifically making washing of hands only afterwards? By us it’s very funny, one makes kiddush, afterwards one goes away from the table, and one makes washing of hands. I think that originally, as one sees in all the laws of the meal, that washing of hands was at the table. The shamash used to bring water. It could be that today when one must drag oneself to the sink, one may wash and make an interruption, not an interruption of kiddush.

There are Jews who conduct themselves this way, the Yekkes conduct themselves this way l’chatchila, that they wash before kiddush. I think this is a stringency, one is not accustomed this way. The gabbaim don’t bring water, only Pesach night they bring it.

Why Havdalah Cannot Be Over Bread

Further, but what is the concept that havdalah cannot be on bread? I mean that it has to do with the fact that bread is simply the meal, we’re now beginning the meal. The importance of the meal, he makes the kiddush for the importance of the meal, the most important thing of the meal. But havdalah doesn’t have the… even if you will indeed find good bread, but it doesn’t come in that way, we’re not now beginning a meal.

So says the holy Seder HaYom, he brings perhaps from the Gemara, that motza’ei Shabbos which establishes a meal upon it is indeed a meal of motza’ei Shabbos. Aha, there is indeed something which is truly melaveh malkah, is truly like an equal child is melaveh malkah, is a fixed meal. But we see another halachah that has to do with this, that havdalah doesn’t have to do with the meal. But it’s still not enough that it’s a melaveh malkah. But next Friday one can see that one will take.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but here later he goes on to say that when one is in the middle of eating one should bentch.

Speaker 1:

Right, Pesach he says, he only says it on bread, but there is no fixed meal, that immediately on motza’ei Shabbos one eats bread. Shabbos night comes immediately bread, one can make kiddush on that.

Seemingly the point would be that when there is a mitzvah to make kiddush on the cup, for example I know by a bris milah or by a wedding, one cannot take a piece of bread by the chuppah and make the blessing on that, because there is importance that it’s not just a ceremony of a chuppah, rather there is in it something that one drinks wine there. Good, but there the wine comes in, the bread wouldn’t come in. The reason why the bread comes in here is because the kiddush is an introduction to the…

Speaker 2:

I agree with you. It’s wine that fits yes sometimes to make, and we see in Tosafos that he establishes it on the wine. Because one can drink a glass of wine in the world, and it doesn’t conduct itself that way. It happens when one has a cocktail, that one honors someone when someone comes as a guest, but someone comes as a guest and one fills him a cup of wine, it doesn’t happen.

Speaker 1:

Right, very good.

The Language of the Rambam in Halachah 10

Yes, halachah 10. Further, one who intended to make kiddush on wine on Friday night, such a thing happens, a person had in mind all the time to make kiddush on wine on Friday night. But he forgot that he’s going to drink wine, let’s say he’s like Rav, that one week he does this way and one week he does that way, and he didn’t remember what he wants to do today. And he forgot and washed his hands before he made kiddush, he already washed himself, he already made the blessing al netilas yadayim seemingly, he is fit to make kiddush already on the bread. Let him make kiddush already on the bread, and let him not make kiddush on the wine, even though he washed his hands improperly, because he washed himself several times not. And consequently, and he already made the blessing al netilas yadayim, let him instead make afterwards the blessing on bread.

Discussion: Wet Hands from Wine – Tumah or Dirtiness?

It appears here that the concept that afterwards they become wet, the hands should become wet from wine, one doesn’t wash oneself there again, because tumah applies to it.

Speaker 2:

No, I think, I don’t know if I remember well, there is something of a concept that when one drinks from a wet cup one can become again tamei. Yes, the whole thing of washing netilas yadayim is… I don’t believe that when one drinks from a wet cup one becomes…

Speaker 1:

No, if the cup is tamei, if the cup is tamei, with the wine his hands will become tamei.

Speaker 2:

No, no, not such a thing. What am I holding? What should it hear perhaps from drinking? Does one’s hands become tamei from drinking? The Chagur, if someone who drinks while the honey drips from the liquid in the hand, yes very good. Let’s purify ourselves. And not immerse, when one drinks one already puts in the hands in the cup. Yes, but every Jew who becomes dirty from the wine of the week, would kiddush do something rank, I estimate myself also, but something is something rank, I make no sense.

What, all this chas v’shalom to me, or did we say normally, if one must fill it. Sometimes it doesn’t mean, hello, sometimes it doesn’t mean like the Golah of Prague, so one fills amen a shis’e’meint like. Fill! That like, like… normally, and long wrestle. When that comes upon you a guest, you don’t bring a small cup, you bring a full cup, a full cup doesn’t mean until if so that it pours that one cannot hold the mouth. It cannot be not bechach kir’osi zei muli, say to yourself muli means according to the matter, means oath with not it must run, they are not able to lift up the cup, such a thing.

Eter, eter, says re’uft it should not be able. Okay, the eter stands in the Gemara, in one of the two shitos that it means that there is more glass than wine, that one can see from above the wine one still sees the same from the cup, and the Rebbe Rebbe. Alge prim, it’s not any shmineh, it makes no sense that from kiddush the hands must become dirty.

If what stands in the Gemara, so it brings that if one had washed, perhaps because of a hefsek, not lovleh kad shel yayin. Ah, he says yes, he fits no, he says another reason, he brings from Rabbi Amram Gaon, why wine requires netilas yadayim, consequently it doesn’t fit, no shmineh washing here, akar date meni yayin, what do we have here a ruling. But one doesn’t grasp clearly. If it stands not, it is it would have been still. Why akar date wet, when he washed himself…

Discussion: Gilui Da’atei – The Question of Forgetting

That is he brings, because the Rebbe, so it is from the Rebbe, that if he yes planned at the beginning to make kiddush on the wine, then yes. It is only oveid meant… sorry, oveid yes made kiddush on the wine, even if he… sorry, I’m saying falsely. Even if he wanted to be mekadesh the wine, but he made a mistake he washed himself must have mekadesh on the wine, something would in netilas yadayim belong to the bread and not to the wine. One with kirdishlin, acher shtligus the meal.

I know clearly what the prohibition what should have been a hefsek, and Ramzi he doesn’t have any hefsek. Don’t know why. Perhaps should he eat together with the blessing al netilas yadayim? I don’t know. He says that it’s a hefsek. Why should it be a hefsek? It’s for the need of the meal. If there is a law that one should make kiddush, it’s not a hefsek. Perhaps yes?

Perhaps he brings from the Amoraim that it’s obvious that since he knew that he must have the netilas yadayim with bread… No, he knew that bread is yes beloved to him, therefore he knew that he must wash himself for bread. I don’t understand it. I don’t understand. I don’t understand so well. What should I do?

And he says “gilui da’atei d’lo nicha lei bechach”, which is very strange. What does it mean he forgot? What does it mean gilui da’atei? It’s missing something, right? Right. I don’t know. Okay. Let’s go further.

Explanation of the Situation: When a Person Prefers Bread More

That is until here we have learned kiddush that one makes at night, which is the main kiddush from the Torah, yes, and rabbinically there is on that the wine, which is the blessing of enjoyment. And besides that there is still a mitzvah… It could be that the person knew as he is truly, because he has here a struggle, yes, he is a chassidic person, he wants to make kiddush on the wine because that is always the custom, but he prefers the bread more.

And he says, yes, one will make kiddush on the wine, but he will wash himself. You know that naturally it’s as if his desire pulls him to the bread, but he has the struggle and he created for himself the level, he meant… I don’t know. In short, it’s all such technical halachos. The halachah we’ll learn further, yes?

Halachah 11 – Kiddush Rabbah (Kiddush by Day)

Speaker 1:

Besides that there is a mitzvah to bless on the wine… It’s not the main kiddush, the main mitzvah is at night, but there is still a mitzvah rabbinically to bless on the wine on Shabbos day before one eats the second meal. There is still a mitzvah from… that before one makes the second meal, the meal of the afternoon, one should also be blessed on the wine. And this is called kiddush rabbah, this is called kiddush rabbah.

Why Is It Called “Kiddush Rabbah”?

It’s very interesting, this is called kiddush rabbah, when in truth the main important kiddush is at night. It’s very good to understand, because at night is the main kiddush, that means “asher kidshanu”, “mekadesh haShabbos”, and there is a mitzvah rabbinically to drink wine. And during the day there is no thing of kiddush, only a thing of drinking wine, and that is called kiddush. You drink wine before the meal.

And there is nothing that by someone is not important on wine, he doesn’t need to do that, he can do it also on bread. How can one do it on bread? It’s kiddush. Do you understand what I’m asking? I don’t have here any kiddush, it’s not the concept of kiddush. We conduct ourselves to say verses, but that is just a custom, the Rambam doesn’t even bring it. Essentially the main mitzvah is to drink wine before the meal.

One calls that kiddush rabbah. One says that kiddush rabbah is like a euphemistic expression. Truly at night is the main mitzvah, it’s a kiddush zuta in truth, the smaller kiddush one calls it. But I think perhaps, as you say, perhaps because of that, because one doesn’t say any blessing asher kidshanu b’mitzvosav, perhaps the whole meal is something the kiddush, no? The whole meal is something the kiddush, I don’t know. Kiddush rabbah. Al hamichyah v’al hakalkalah, that is a place that say. I don’t know.

The Language of the Rambam: The Text of Kiddush Rabbah

Afterwards, how is the kiddush? Says the Rambam, one doesn’t need to say any long text, rather one says borei pri hagafen alone. One cannot say, one doesn’t say “mekadesh haShabbos”, “and drink and afterwards gives to Yehudah and foundation”.

The Rambam’s Innovation: Prohibition of Eating Before Kiddush by Day

Says the Rambam, still by day there is the concept, “and it is forbidden for a person” – this goes on the afternoon? Yes yes, “simple the whole day is holy”. He answers the concept of kiddush rabbah.

The Ra’avad’s Question on the Rambam

Asks on him the Ra’avad, he doesn’t understand, said Avraham, “by my life, if it is a reasoning”, the Ra’avad has a source, I don’t know. Or he says a reasoning, “I have never heard a reasoning weaker than this”. This is the worst reasoning that the Rambam ever had.

What is the reasoning? That because it’s called kiddush rabbah, that means kiddush, and before kiddush it says “forbidden to eat”. Says the Ra’avad, it’s not called kiddush, it’s called just so. It’s a sanctity that has no blessing in it, one already sanctified the day long ago last night. You want to sanctify bread, you can sanctify a day also on bread. Hamotzi is your that. What is relevant not to eat before that?

The Ra’avad asks such a scholarly question: How is it possible not to eat Shabbos in the morning before kiddush? You want to eat, let’s say someone doesn’t eat hamotzi, okay, today he doesn’t eat hamotzi, there’s an obligation to eat bread. He makes a meal without bread. When he eats, that’s the kiddush, there’s an obligation. Kiddush is nothing, kiddush is only a hagafen. So how is it possible to eat before kiddush Shabbos in the morning? He asks a question.

Answer: The Distinction Between Night and Day

The answer is, it has to do with the word kiddush rabbah. The Rambam said that there is something called drinking wine, which this is called kiddush Shabbos. So by day there is no kiddush on the bread? When one drinks wine? If one eats bread there is something that one adds besides the meal. But in the afternoon, if one didn’t drink one did nothing besides the meal. Because then with drinking wine before one did something that is called kiddush rabbah.

Speaker 2:

Even at night one may simply, this comes more into effect by day than at night, but that is only a mitzvah and so on.

Speaker 1:

At night one can make without bread, by day one cannot? Yes, because at night you have a blessing of… you have the blessing of kiddush. And if you say the blessing of kiddush on the bread you meant the bread.

Kiddush Rabbah by Day and Kiddush Before the Day

Halachah 29 (Continued) – Kiddush Rabbah by Day

Speaker 1:

The Rambam said that there is something called drinking wine, which this is called “kiddush rabbah”. So by day there is no kiddush on the bread? You must drink wine? Somewhere like at night? There is something that one adds besides the meal. By day, if one didn’t drink, one did nothing besides the meal. But when one drinks wine before that, one did something that is called “kiddush rabbah”. Even at night, one says that there is a stringency by day more than at night, but in practice it’s only a mitzvah min hamuvchar. At night one can make on the bread, by day one cannot. Yes, but at night you have a blessing of kiddush. If you say the blessing of kiddush on the bread, you made a blessing of kiddush. Then it’s still all fine. But by day the whole blessing is only the drinking of the cup of wine. That is the kiddush rabbah, the cup of wine.

It’s a simple reasoning, true. He says a simple reasoning. It’s a simple reasoning. Not, one must know what it truly means. Why is it called “kiddush rabbah”? And when one will know what “kiddush rabbah” means, presumably the problem will be solved. Why is it called? How can one eat? I ask you, how is this possible? I want to ask you a second question. May a person drink wine before kiddush? It makes no sense to say that, true? At night it makes no sense, right? Right. So, it can make sense for example that he drinks wine not at the table, not in the place of the meal. He drinks a cup of wine not next to the meal, one may, one may make kiddush not in the place of the meal, one is not fulfilled. So he will make like a ba’al zacharon. It’s not a sin. He just needs kiddush again when he makes a meal. Forget these things, go see kiddush in the place of the meal, true. But in short, I hold that one must rule like the Rambam. The Rambam makes a thing sense. Simply Lechem Mishneh, added a third before the meal.

Practical Difference – Eating Before the Reading

I want to bring this out for the practical difference. But you know that I have another proof. He indeed brings the responsa of the Rambam, he brings there that one cannot eat any things before eating. For the practical difference, for all the Jews who eat by the reading or whatever in the morning after davening, let’s say. Then there are all investigations what is the source at all. From when does the obligation of kiddush in the morning begin? Yes, from the reading, from that. Therefore one doesn’t need to come at all to the whole thing, because the Rambam says, when you eat, that should be the kiddush. What is the problem? Now you make kiddush on types of mezonos, and you have enjoyment.

Speaker 2:

He indeed makes a question. That one usually makes a Shabbos snack in the morning. So what is that truly… He eats certainly, then there’s no question, he eats, he just makes sure that the eating is there.

Speaker 1:

The Shinover Rav said that if one drinks before davening, women he said, on a man also, we’ll see soon, one should make kiddush on the coffee. But it appears here that the whole kiddush is the borei pri hagafen.

Speaker 2:

Okay, he said that one can make kiddush on coffee, according to the custom in… chamar medinah.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it doesn’t say chamar medinah on kiddush in the Rambam, it only says on havdalah, but we’ll see soon. Not clear. But the custom in Galicia etc. etc.

Explanation of “Kiddush Rabbah” – Adding a Cup of Wine

But it’s nice, because according to the Rambam seemingly the point is, the essence of adding a cup of wine in a place where it’s not lacking, that is the kiddush rabbah. It means, because without this it’s just a weekday. Ah, he’s now hungry in the afternoon, it’s after davening, he eats. He adds a cup of wine, that gives it importance, that is called kiddush rabbah. And with this he sanctifies the day, he makes importance for the day by beginning with a cup of wine.

So if so, he begins with perhaps a small brandy glass, when there is a… he says afterwards “Baruch Atah Hashem mekadesh haShabbos”, no importance there’s no problem, what do you need? You already have the kiddush of words. It says in books, but it’s still.

It comes out a strange thing that kiddush of the day is much more stringent than kiddush of the night, because you make a kiddush rabbah. Ah, you can dei Torah, from that because one drinks, because one must drink. At night one doesn’t need to drink, it’s not kiddush rabbah. According to this one must drink, it’s a greater kiddush.

Story of the Dinover Rav by Rizhin

Digression – Grape Juice and Manischewitz

There was a Hasidic… the Dinover Rav, Naftali’le, some Ropshitzer grandson came to Rizhin, and he asked him which meal was the greatest matter for him on Shabbos. He told him, according to Kabbalah there is a dispute, three levels, three aspects. He says that for him the greatest meal was Shabbos morning, because they drank, they could make kiddush on brandy, so he was more joyful.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, kiddush rabbah, “d’vei teima midi”. “Chamra tava d’vei teima midi”.

Speaker 1:

Yes, very good. So, yes, it’s worth continuing. Until here we have learned. Ah, one more law. Until here, on the contrary, if so, that those who drank brandy was perhaps a bit of a stringency, because at night one was lenient with wine from the vat, it doesn’t make joy, one fulfills the obligation, because one does say “mekadesh haShabbos”. In the morning, for the people who only had wine from the vat, they said, “No, now take something good, something that makes joy, that makes importance for the meal.”

Digression – Grape Juice and Manischewitz

Speaker 2:

I don’t know of any matter that tzaddikim drank grape juice at kiddush. In the morning? At night, everything’s fine. A tzaddik, do you perhaps know a rebbe who makes kiddush on grape juice?

Speaker 1:

No, I don’t know. Okay. The teacher makes kiddush on… grape juice is a completely new thing, because it spoils quickly. Must spoils without a fridge, without preservatives, so it’s not a realistic thing.

I once heard about why there is the question why in America, why the world is accustomed to ice? Jews on Shabbos, kiddush. I saw a Hasidic Jew said that he complained that the Manischewitz wine that they used to drink in America on Shabbos, that made the world fall away. Anyway, if he would have complained that the Manischewitz is filled with ice, he would have understood better.

Speaker 2:

Yes, he would have seen that it’s actually a mitzvah.

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay.

Law 14 (30) – Kiddush and Havdalah While Still Day

In short, further. Fourteen. We have learned that one must sanctify Shabbos. The Rambam learned that at its entrance and exit there is kiddush and havdalah. But the Rambam says that there is a condition in this: one may indeed make it even before Shabbos. Yes, “A person may make kiddush over the cup on Friday afternoon while it is still day, even though Shabbos has not yet entered, and similarly one makes havdalah over the cup while it is still day, even though it is still Shabbos.”

The Rambam Doesn’t Say One Must Accept Shabbos

So, by the way, the Rambam doesn’t say – I just want to bring this out, because now it’s summer, the world makes early Shabbos, part of the world – the Rambam doesn’t say that one must accept Shabbos then. He says, one can make kiddush for Shabbos even before “Shabbos has not yet entered”. He also doesn’t say any conditions, it must be before plag, after plag, before Mincha. He doesn’t say when, but he says, it can be a very long time earlier.

Speaker 2:

No, why not? Because the Rambam says, why did we learn that one can… havdalah, for example, one can say until Tuesday.

Speaker 1:

Yes? No, post facto. If he didn’t bless. Look, look, let’s finish first this piece, because it looks like a bit of a contradiction. Because here he says while it is still day. And similarly one makes havdalah over the cup while it is still day even though it is still Shabbos, because the commandment of remembrance is to say it both at its entrance and exit, the mitzvah of remembrance is to honor the Shabbos at its entrance and exit, and also a bit before Shabbos. It’s also okay that one does it a little before the time.

What Does “A Bit” Mean?

Speaker 2:

That the Rambam said “a bit”, he doesn’t mean just randomly.

Speaker 1:

No, but it must have some connection, if someone makes kiddush Friday morning, with what is he honoring the Shabbos? Understand? It’s not connected with the Shabbos, and you see that it has something to do with the Shabbos.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I understand! The Rambam says “a bit”. He means by “a bit” he means to bring out that it’s not simply that when Shabbos falls one must. When it comes, when does it come? We say Shabbos today, Friday for tonight Shabbos comes. We’re talking about when the holiness of Shabbos is about to come.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I understand. One can already understand the poskim who wanted to make a time for this “a bit”, and they say plag hamincha. But I don’t see that it’s so necessary. One can say so, why does one make it erev Shabbos? Because seven o’clock, six o’clock, is already a normal day, one already eats supper then. So then it’s already erev Shabbos. It’s actually a logical argument, there are people who argue that perhaps one doesn’t need to stop work at all, because truly, according to halacha it goes by sunset, but our order of life doesn’t go by sunset. So it’s an aspect of Shabbos. What makes it that today Shabbos comes? Understand? I don’t see that one needs to search so much.

In short, I already know, he brings that in Responsa Maharil it says plag hamincha, I don’t know, one needs to look what the source is for this, but in the Rambam I don’t see that it should say so. Understand what I’m saying?

Speaker 2:

Right. It seems that as you say, I agree that it can’t be Friday morning at six o’clock. But it could be that the Rambam would also agree that if one is still doing work, it’s something such… because the kiddush doesn’t stick with the Shabbos.

Speaker 1:

I don’t agree, one may still do work.

Practical Plan – Shabbos Meal for the Children Friday Afternoon

I’m thinking of doing so, because for my wife and my children who go to sleep very much they make erev Shabbos very much, I don’t have the strength for it. I think I have an idea, according to my innovation, if the great rabbis will agree with me, I want to argue that one can make the meal and afterwards go to shul. We daven in shul at eight thirty Mincha during the week, so one can already be after the whole meal. One can make kiddush with a blessing, have a meal with the children, the children go to sleep the children, and go to the beis medrash to say Kabbalas Shabbos. What’s the error? Who says that the meal comes after honoring Shabbos?

True, this is apparently true, because the Rambam is going to clearly say a bit later that one can be exempt with bread and sanctify. It doesn’t have to be that it’s a situation of… But there are other laws that one may not sit down to eat a fixed meal before Mincha, not before Maariv.

Speaker 2:

True, on this you know that one can make a guardian, it’s a different thing.

Speaker 1:

True. If there is perhaps when one drinks, there is… one should only drink right before eating because of before davening because lest it be drawn out. Okay, we can find… for that one, for that one, for that one, one can find an answer.

Speaker 2:

No, but the thing… But it can be, that if it’s on a weekday… besides Shabbos is one thing, now he’s talking about… So, but what the Rambam says here, “even though Shabbos has not yet entered to make kiddush over the cup”, it’s clear, it’s hard to say that a person will stand in his weekday clothes, he’s holding his store open, and he says some blessing of kiddush, and afterwards he goes for another few hours into the week. Because the kiddush has nothing to do with the Shabbos. All the more so if the Shabbos is still in some form, that he honors the Shabbos, he brings out the holiness of Shabbos. If it has no connection, the Shabbos doesn’t stick with the kiddush of Shabbos, I don’t see the proof. I don’t see the proof. Especially if it’s a bit of a blessing over mitzvos, it’s a bit of a blessing over mitzvos, it’s a nice teaching.

Speaker 1:

I’m not disagreeing. I agree. No, why? By havdalah, let me bring a proof from havdalah. Havdalah, one can do work before havdalah, true? True, one must say Baruch Hamavdil, we saw it. It’s not a problem. He’s already working weekdays for two hours, now he makes havdalah, because now he came to the wine. It’s not praiseworthy, one remembers Shabbos.

Rabbi Blumenkrantz’s Inference

He brings about this, he says, Rabbi Blumenkrantz, who was precise in the Rambam like us, we are students of Rabbi Blumenkrantz’s book, and he says that it doesn’t say in the Rambam the word Shabbos, it says “not Shabbos”, and he asks, he says that actually in the Beis Yosef it says in section 268 that the Rambam doesn’t hold that there is an obligation of tosefes Shabbos, but the poskim say that if one says “Barchu” or one says “Bo’i kallah” the holiness of Shabbos takes effect. The Rambam would say, the Rambam would also say, if one already said “Bo’i kallah”, he’s talking about, if one has… okay, another problem, we’re talking about before a… He doesn’t say the problem. He says answers.

Conclusion

I think that the Rambam, as I understand the Rambam, one can calmly do my plan, make Friday afternoon a Shabbos meal for the children with kiddush. The worst thing one can make kiddush again afterwards.

Speaker 2:

No, that I still agree with. But if one does work in between, I don’t know if the kiddush with the Shabbos come at the same time. I’m not saying before me, I’m saying the Rambam.

Making Kiddush Earlier and Laws of Kiddush and Havdalah in the Middle of a Meal

Discussion: Can One Make Kiddush Friday Afternoon?

Speaker 1:

He says Torah answers, I think that as I understand the Rambam one can calmly do my plan, make Friday afternoon a Shabbos meal for the children with kiddush. The wise one can think, at worst one can make kiddush again according to the Rambam. The kiddush is an importance of the Shabbos, it must have something strong what the two things. On this the Rambam says, that similarly also, but mainly it’s tosefes Shabbos, not the minute that it comes in.

The Rambam means, around the time, approximately. I mean like someone should go under the chuppah a few hours before the wedding to make a blessing over the cup, if later he makes the actual kiddushin. It’s not so, it needs the importance of the Shabbos comes in, an importance of the Shabbos has stopped and mikveh we’ve already gone. A mikveh is a preparation, mikveh we should have said and other things, I don’t know. Some preparation for Shabbos one may drink, you know that the minute they drank a with in short. I don’t see that I understand what it says, but I don’t see something necessary. In books.

Okay, now let’s learn. What should a Jew, it’s interesting yours, all laws. Here we’re not talking at all about going to shul, not erev Shabbos, not motzaei Shabbos. No one goes to the beis medrash the whole no with with with with with.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes. Meal eater, erev Shabbos.

Speaker 1:

An idea… They had to learn, that early or night, or his few people go to the beis medrash. About this the teacher what sleeps rarely a person who goes home, do you remember that a thing a good year? For this one says best man late, but I think this belongs something, I think about something need to look one can’t now, something was standing. Yes, meal eater erev Shabbos, still it was standing.

But I don’t believe, I believe when Reb Yitzchak was making kiddush, and the moment one catches such a kiddush it’s a Shabbos, he forgot about the whole world, and he already went into the Shabbos. But still, you wouldn’t wait for this I. What can already be? If there is a need, there is. Such needs arise, such things arise. On the contrary, it could be it’s correct.

I just have my interest that I need to maintain the shul’s minyan, so for that one can certainly.

Discussion: Is There a Prohibition to Make Kiddush Earlier?

Speaker 1:

And what the prohibition of making kiddush earlier is not a prohibition.

Speaker 2:

No, it’s the… On the contrary, simply it has to do with the whole piece what’s called Kabbalas Shabbos, when someone takes out the whole piece Lecha Dodi after davening Mincha at Maariv. But what I want to say is so, because all these people who make early Shabbos Maariv too early, is much more doubtful than kiddush earlier, what I want to bring out.

Speaker 1:

Simply Maariv early, there’s Tosafos who says an answer, and one may daven Maariv. Very good. But kiddush, there’s no condition, at least according to the Rambam, according to the simple meaning, is… One can make even earlier. Instead of making the forced post facto to daven Maariv so early, one shouldn’t daven Maariv, one should make a meal after davening Maariv.

Speaker 2:

What does one have to do with the other? The kiddush time begins after Maariv.

Speaker 1:

So, everything has a time, ask me afternoon what it’s not a with the jealousy. There’s to do what we do. There’s next anyway, it weighs it only to do, one doesn’t wash. To do is one of the longest mitzvos for a whole Friday. What one eats, is called to do.

So, in short, I think that the idea exists. Further, so, I’ve lost my script making from the piece point, some clip. Yitzchak said that we should go after the Shabbos meal to shul. Okay, let’s go already.

Discussion: Why Can Havdalah Be Made Until Wednesday But Not Kiddush?

Speaker 2:

No, but the truth is, there’s still here a place for a thought. Why can havdalah still be made until Wednesday, and no one has said that from Wednesday one can already make kiddush? Because there’s a difference between kiddush and havdalah.

Speaker 1:

Perhaps one can yes? You’re catching on already. You started that you’re an hour earlier, now you’re already at Wednesday.

Speaker 2:

No, it doesn’t make sense. Yes, but here I said, kiddush is the mitzvah to make when it’s Shabbos. Havdalah one makes apparently one can make when it’s the week. Kiddush there’s probably not an opinion that one can until next Shabbos make havdalah truly, right? It’s good, it will erase one. It has a battery, it won’t fire further. It should just not fire further.

Speaker 1:

Yes. I want to buy two and put there.

Speaker 2:

No no. Yes, say the Rama further.

Law 29: One Who Was Eating on Erev Shabbos and the Day Became Holy Upon Him

Speaker 1:

Now we’re going to learn about such a matter, if someone is in the middle of a meal and it becomes Shabbos, how one interrupts, whether one must interrupt.

One who was eating on erev Shabbos, a Jew is in the middle of eating weekday food, and the day became holy upon him, the day became sanctified, the day became holy, and he is in the middle of the meal, he’s still in the middle of eating the meal, the law is: he spreads a cloth on the table, he should spread a cloth on the table. This is apparently a matter of importance for the new, that the part of the meal that one is going to eat in honor of Shabbos should look something new, it shouldn’t be simply continuing the same meal. And he sanctifies, one makes kiddush, one makes the blessing of kiddush, yes? And afterwards he completes his meal, and afterwards he finishes eating.

Discussion: Must One Make Another Borei Pri Hagafen?

Speaker 2:

If one makes it on wine, must one make another borei pri hagafen? Let’s say he already made borei pri hagafen in the meal. Apparently not. It could be the spreading of the cloth makes that it’s as if one finished what was before.

Speaker 1:

No, that’s another thing. He brings that one doesn’t say borei pri hagafen simply then. He’s holding himself already in the middle of the meal. If he already made a hagafen in that meal, yes, certainly, he already made it, he needs to exempt himself from the meal. So spreading cloth, and sanctifying, and completing his meal, and afterwards he blesses the blessing after meals. Ah, he doesn’t need to bentch in between. No, different from havdalah, which we’re going to see that one would have been able to obligate him to stop eating and he should make kiddush.

Law 29 (Continued): One Who Was Eating on Shabbos — Havdalah

Speaker 1:

But one who was eating on Shabbos, but on motzaei Shabbos, by havdalah it’s different. One who was eating on Shabbos and Shabbos went out and he is in the middle of his meal, he’s in the middle of eating Shabbos, he’s eating seudah shlishis, and there comes in the… Shabbos ends, motzaei Shabbos comes in, and he is in the middle of his meal, one doesn’t say that he can make havdalah in the middle of the meal and continue. He completes his meal, he should finish his meal, and washes his hands with mayim acharonim, and he should wash mayim acharonim, and blesses the blessing after meals over the cup, and afterwards he makes havdalah over the cup, afterwards on the same cup he can then make the blessing of havdalah.

So apparently it’s so, it’s not also a stringency. That is, Shabbos, from when Shabbos comes one may not continue eating, one must make kiddush. Havdalah, one may continue eating until one finishes the meal. And afterwards one makes havdalah.

There are here two laws. One law is, that Friday night when one is in the middle of a meal, one can continue with the meal. One doesn’t say that he must bentch and stop the meal, because the reason is because there comes to you now a new obligation of a meal from Shabbos. One doesn’t say that he must stop. But motzaei Shabbos he’s going out, he must finish the meal. He doesn’t need to make havdalah immediately, he can wait and he makes havdalah together with the blessing after meals on the same cup.

Discussion: Ein Osin Mitzvos Chavilos Chavilos

Speaker 2:

By the way, there’s a halacha that “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos” (we don’t bundle mitzvos together). One mitzva has already been done on this, you should do another mitzva on it. Well, it’s the opposite, then he wouldn’t have needed to. I don’t know. It says if it’s the same thing, it’s chada milsa (one matter). Birkas hamazon with havdala on motzaei Shabbos go together. As if, here he’s finishing the Shabbos meal, he makes a… I don’t know why. There’s another understandable Gemara that talks about this. Okay.

Discussion: Can One Make Havdala in the Middle of a Meal?

Speaker 1:

If so, the main halacha from here is that one cannot make havdala in the middle of a meal. One shouldn’t, one cannot.

Speaker 2:

No, one can, one shouldn’t. One can, if one specifically wants to, one can. He just cannot say a kalla (bride). I mean one shouldn’t. Yes, if you want to make havdala, you cannot continue eating. I mean that you must… Yes, you can make havdala, why not? One shouldn’t, you can use the same birkas hamazon. Why should you do it? I mean one can, why shouldn’t one be able to? Perhaps there’s something here, like we learned earlier. I mean that he can.

Speaker 1:

You see, by drinking one can, yes? If someone is in the middle of drinking, he doesn’t need to pause. He can make havdala, but he needs a cup for the drinking. It seems he can, but…

Speaker 2:

No, he’s saying that by drinking we’re lenient for him. It’s lenient that he doesn’t need to take another cup. He can use the same cup from birkas hamazon. First of all, he’s talking about eating. First of all, he doesn’t need to use the same cup. This is the heter (permission) of the Rebbes who extend shalosh seudos into the night, right? And the same thing, he can use the same cup from birkas hamazon and for… But as I understand, he’s in the middle of havdala.

That the Rebbes conduct themselves indeed, they only have one thing, they make maariv in between, which I don’t know what it means the same cup at the same time. But this is how the Chassidic shtiebels conduct themselves when one makes… one makes, how is it called, benching on a cup and one doesn’t drink the cup, I have no business, I don’t know why.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And it’s not a matter, why I’ve already shouted, that when one benches in a shtiebel, one makes a cup, one must drink the cup, so it says in the responsa.

Speaker 1:

Yes, drunk.

Speaker 2:

Why not?

Speaker 1:

It’s not forbidden to drink, this is still part of the order, it’s not…

Speaker 2:

Both times, it seems so.

Speaker 1:

Yes, clearly, I don’t know.

Speaker 2:

It seems the opposite, it comes from the Rebbes, there the Rebbes do so, if he covers the cup and he says maariv and then he makes kiddush on the same cup, obviously this is a matter…

Speaker 1:

If he makes kiddush on the same cup.

Speaker 2:

That makes sense.

Speaker 1:

He drinks it then.

Speaker 2:

He drinks it then.

Speaker 1:

Yes. But if not, then I don’t know why one should do it that way.

Okay.

Halacha 30: If One Was Eating and Finished His Meal at the Onset of Shabbos

Speaker 1:

If one was eating, a person was in the middle of eating his meal, and evening of Shabbos arrived, and he finished his eating at the onset of Shabbos, he stopped eating when Shabbos came,

then he blesses birkas hamazon first, he must first bench birkas hamazon, and afterwards makes kiddush on a second cup, then he should make kiddush afterwards on an extra cup.

Notice, earlier we learned if he’s still holding, he wants to continue with the meal, he wants to continue eating, they told him that out of respect for Shabbos he should put down a tablecloth, he should look like he’s beginning a new meal, and make kiddush and continue, but if he has already finished eating, he doesn’t want to continue eating, now the question is about the benching and the kiddush, that here in this halacha that one cannot do it on the same cup, the novelty already says here is

that one cannot do it on the same cup, because we don’t make two sanctifications on one cup.

Discussion: Birkas Hamazon on a Cup

Speaker 2:

If both things have a halacha of doing it on a cup. Birkas hamazon on a cup, although the Rambam hasn’t told me clearly anywhere that birkas hamazon must be on a cup.

Speaker 1:

Later he said in the laws of birkas hamazon.

Speaker 2:

Did you see in the laws of birkas hamazon?

Speaker 1:

Making it on a cup, but I remember, it’s not… first time, I don’t remember what it says there, but it’s not entirely certain that it says in the laws of birkas hamazon that one should make it with a cup.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I don’t remember it. In the laws of blessings chapter 7, yes, the Rambam spoke about kos shel bracha (cup of blessing), making benching on a cup. It’s like a beautification in birkas hamazon.

This cannot be done with the same cup, because one might think that

Ein Osin Mitzvos Chavilos Chavilos — Kiddush and Birkas Hamazon on One Cup

The Rambam’s Position: Not Making Kiddush and Birkas Hamazon on the Same Cup

Speaker 1:

But the halacha is not so, that one shouldn’t bench and make kiddush on the same cup, “two mitzvos on one cup”. We don’t want one to do two mitzvos on the same cup. That is, the cup is a beautification for birkas hamazon and it’s a beautification for kiddush.

The Rambam says, the mitzvos of kiddush and the mitzva of birkas hamazon are “two mitzvos from the Torah”, they are two different mitzvos from the Torah. Both are mitzvos from the Torah, and they are two different types, they are two different mitzvos. And you now want with the same cup to make a beautification for two mitzvos. It looks like you want to discharge, it’s not love of the mitzva that each mitzva receives its own importance, its own preparation.

Question: Why Is Havdala Different?

It’s interesting that if one were from the Torah and one from the Rabbis, for example. Perhaps one can think that perhaps regarding this havdala is different. They learned that havdala he does make on the same cup, true? Yes, because perhaps according to those who say that havdala is rabbinic it made sense.

But the Rambam doesn’t say that havdala is rabbinic, the Rambam holds that havdala is from the Torah. So one must understand some other distinction, because it has something to do with. I don’t know if the Rambam is specifically in the words “from the Torah,” or he means to say that they’re two different mitzvos. It’s not… “two mitzvos from the Torah”, two different mitzvos, that there should be no connection. He could have thrown out the words “from the Torah,” yes.

The Cup by Birkas Hamazon Is Not From the Torah

The Rambam did say that kiddush and havdala he said “to remember it at its entrance and at its exit”. By both, the cup itself is not from the Torah. It’s certain that the cup itself is not from the Torah. The kiddush on wine is already from the Torah, it’s not even a Tanna.

But the essential mitzva of birkas hamazon, a cup by birkas hamazon is certainly not, not even rabbinic, that it’s only something important. But the point is that it’s something important that goes with birkas hamazon. Okay, I need to check what it is, not that’s my point now, but I mean to say, it’s certainly not as important a mitzva as kiddush.

The point is however because it’s a part of birkas hamazon, therefore we don’t want, it’s a disgrace to the mitzva of birkas hamazon, I mean to say. It’s not a disgrace to the mitzva of kos shel bracha of birkas hamazon.

The Maggid Mishneh’s Answer: Havdala and Birkas Hamazon Are Both “Afterwards”

He brings a distinction, the Maggid Mishneh, and we’re only saying this so we’ll understand why by havdala one does make it on the same cup.

There is what it says that it’s two matters, the Gemara calls this “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos”. One doesn’t pack in both, I don’t know how one calls this “chavilos chavilos,” one doesn’t pack in, everything on one cup, one packs in mitzvos. Each mitzva has its piece, the same cup, one grabs a hitch with the mitzva, another mitzva, one should spend extra on each mitzva. Like, okay, I mean to say that according to my understanding, that when a Jew does a mitzva he gets a glass of wine, for two mitzvos comes two glasses, it can’t be the same wine.

But, yes, regarding havdala, he says the Maggid Mishneh in the name of one of the commentators, I don’t know who, that the distinction of havdala with birkas hamazon, that in birkas hamazon it goes on the past, it was Shabbos, Shabbos has ended. Not clear that this is the meaning of birkas hamazon, birkas hamazon is on the meal that was eaten. Yes, kiddush is for the future, on the Shabbos that’s coming now, so it doesn’t go together.

That doesn’t mean “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos”, that doesn’t make sense.

Speaker 2:

But, no, it does.

Speaker 1:

That means “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos” there’s a condition here, specifically when they’re two matters. If it’s the same idea, one can do it. Like one makes six blessings of the seven blessings on one cup, no one says that one must make six different cups, because it’s one subject.

Critique of the Maggid Mishneh’s Answer

It’s really not at all the simple meaning of the Maggid Mishneh, because “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos” means that you’re disgracing the mitzva. And these are two, even if both have some certain… Okay, he found some characteristic where both have a connection. Yes, they have a law that both are “afterwards,” both are a blessing “afterwards,” an after-blessing. Because this is an after-blessing on Shabbos, and this is an after-blessing on the meal.

He makes this, it’s enough from two types of things. This is a mitzva of “remember it on wine”, and this is a mitzva of “and you shall bless Hashem your God”. Because this is a Shabbos thing. It does go together. That when Shabbos has ended, thank God we ate, thank God Shabbos has ended. Birkas hamazon is a mitzva on eating, because one is satiated.

Speaker 2:

Certainly it has. Is birkas hamazon of Shabbos and birkas hamazon of a plain Tuesday the same birkas hamazon, the same mitzva of birkas hamazon. It’s a different day. Does birkas hamazon have something to do with Shabbos? If someone doesn’t bench on Shabbos, has he nullified Shabbos and nullified the mitzva of birkas hamazon?

Speaker 1:

No, no, they go together. Like you understand, you’re about to learn, when one makes kiddush of Yom Tov that falls on motzaei Shabbos, one also makes both on one cup, yes? You understand? Because it’s the same subject. Now comes Yom Tov, because there first of all, kiddush and havdala are indeed from the same mitzva, they come out from the same place, one mitzva. On this you can say that it’s one type of mitzva, because in both it comes from one thing in the Torah, you’re honoring the mitzva in the Torah at once. But this is two different mitzvos.

Speaker 2:

I don’t understand the meaning. I don’t understand the problem. It makes sense, one finished the meal, one finished Shabbos, one makes a blessing on this. If one finished the meal of the week and Shabbos begins, these are two different subjects, understand?

Speaker 1:

I don’t agree, because birkas hamazon has nothing to do with Shabbos or with the week. Birkas hamazon is not a time-bound mitzva, it has to do with bread. Birkas hamazon is a set with bread, havdala is a set with Shabbos. Further.

Discussion: Is the Maggid Mishneh’s Answer a Good Reasoning?

Speaker 1:

Okay, at this point you’re just being difficult.

Speaker 2:

No, you don’t need to answer by force. Because I’m asking a question, must you answer by force?

Speaker 1:

It’s a bit of a crooked reasoning, it’s not a good reasoning. Because “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos” is a principle throughout the entire Torah, that because of the importance of each mitzva one should give each mitzva its extra cup. He should say that here it’s different because there’s something that they’re two in-laws, the two mitzvos, and both are “afterwards.”

By the way, it’s not a principle throughout the entire Torah, it doesn’t say so. It’s a principle, he says it in a general way, even… what is such a principle? Even “ein osin mitzvos”. We need to once actually sit and understand what it means at all.

Speaker 2:

You say the reasoning is crooked. Because from what I see, it doesn’t mean anything, both ways. That is, I’m explaining logic. It’s not such logic like good logic to build with this an airplane. An airplane needs logic to be necessary, either it runs electric or it doesn’t. But all these things are reasonings. When we say that a reasoning is good or not good, I don’t know exactly what we’re arguing about at all. Because I don’t understand what we’re arguing about now. I shout yes, it makes sense, in my head it makes sense, and in your head it doesn’t make sense. So what do we do now? Nothing.

Speaker 1:

One says the truth, we haven’t better written out the two reasonings. But what does one do? No, because this isn’t just us. Everyone, the Raavad when he argues with the Rambam about the same thing, you can hear what the Rambam’s reasoning is. The Raavad will say, “I have a different reasoning.” No, but we need to understand.

My question is bigger. The commentator that the Magen Avraham brings down here, also when he said this knew that it doesn’t make much sense. Because he also had a study partner, and the study partner told him that it doesn’t make sense. He knew that perhaps he can find a bit of sense. He knew that it doesn’t make sense. Because it’s a weak reasoning. He brings it up because there’s nothing better, because it’s a somewhat difficult question. What’s the distinction between havdala, birkas hamazon, and kiddush, birkas hamazon? He brings up somewhat of a half reasoning.

Speaker 2:

I would have thought the opposite, that I don’t see what the problem is. One has now finished the meal, now Shabbos is ending, one makes both at once. “Ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos” is not such a strong law that must apply throughout the entire Torah. Someone brought up that by this thing, when it’s actually kiddush and birkas hamazon, perhaps one is a bit further removed from the other. There the Tanna brought the thing “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos”. This isn’t applied just like that, it’s such a principle, it’s not an iron principle. He made this by this thing specifically.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Where else is there “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos”?

Speaker 2:

This is in the poskim. I’ve seen elsewhere applied “ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos”. Chavilos chavilos and chavilos is this the only time one does it?

Speaker 1:

Yes yes.

Speaker 2:

You mean that one shouldn’t make two mitzvos on one thing?

Speaker 1:

No, I’m telling you why, because I remember a language that something that was designated for a mitzva one should do with it another mitzva. Doesn’t this apply to the cup?

Speaker 2:

No, it’s the opposite of ein osin mitzvos chavilos chavilos. Exactly the opposite, taking the same cup that one made one mitzva one should do another mitzva.

Speaker 1:

I know, one should leave the blood from the metzitza u’fia and then blow shofar.

Speaker 2:

Ah, it does say other things. I have a marketing campaign.

Speaker 1:

Okay, in short, one must learn.

Discussion: Objects of Mitzvos — Using an Object from One Mitzva for Another Mitzva

Speaker 2:

On the contrary, I think that if I remember, that one that came to the room of the mitzva, is more like when it’s left over, like the object of mitzva, like you say, the lulav that’s left over, one should burn the chametz with it. It says about this in the Gemara already such a thing. And the reason is burning, and it wouldn’t make sense at all that one pulls the same mitzva, it’s not doing two mitzvos with one cup, it’s more that one has used up the cup, imagine if the cup had been left over, one didn’t drink, a cup of blessing needs to be drunk, one doesn’t drink it, but it says it’s different, it’s if, that when it doesn’t remain and it goes in the garbage, okay, one can make it another mitzva, or while reaching the garbage, one can accept a mitzva of burning something.

One subject of mitzvos chavilos chavilos is more when one saves, because one wants to spend less, but one wants to use the same cup for both things, versus then is when it applies to other things, one with things standing mitzvos one after another, when it’s not clear. Okay, one can learn perhaps, the rabbis are teachings on this, it’s a sort of things can be by the lesson of Yom Tov, because it’s not a matter what is truly a matter, so he allows no action.

Speaker 1:

Ah, you see, mitzvos of the Rabbis is this or, you see like the Maggid, he brings that here on the Maggid it says indeed, when before the lesson of blessings one makes on one thing with the rabbis. But perhaps one should have truly made seven cups on the lesson of blessings.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it’s like a nice stringency, no?

Speaker 1:

Okay, we’re going further. Again, the Kessef Sofer brings the language around, and this is a mitzvah d’rabbanan, a mitzvah like the Rambam writes, this is a mitzvah from the Torah. This is all built on the four answers that he brings here. Okay. Let’s go further. Okay.

Transition to New Topic: What Type of Wine May Be Used for Kiddush

Until now we have learned about the topic of making kiddush and havdalah. Now we can learn what type of wine we may use for kiddush. That is, in the Rabbanan, very interesting, in the Rabbanan that one should make wine,

Chapter 29: Kiddush — Laws of Wine Quality

Continuation: What Type of Wine May Be Used for Kiddush

Speaker 1: Okay. Let’s go further.

I see here the Kessef Sofer brings the language of the Rambam, and this is not a mitzvah d’rabbanan, a mitzvah, this is a mitzvah d’oraita. This is all built on this chapter from the Torah, which he brings here. Okay. Let’s go further.

Okay. Until now we have learned about the topic of making kiddush, and now we will learn what type of wine may be used for kiddush. That is, among the rabbis who make wine, there are rules about what type of wine may be used.

Speaker 2: And is this only regarding kiddush, or is this in general when one uses wine, for example to be yotzei for the four cups or whatever?

Speaker 1: It’s a bit different, but let’s learn, perhaps there are stringencies there.

Halacha 14: Wine Fit to Be Poured on the Altar

Okay. One only makes kiddush on wine that is fit to be poured on the altar. What wine? The wine that the Torah said is good enough for the altar, simply good wine. Therefore, if one put honey or leaven in it, which we mention every day when davening with great kavanah, if one put honey in it, it is invalid, by the ketoret, yes. Even like a drop of mustard in a large barrel, for this nullification doesn’t help, for this bitul doesn’t help, even though it gives a taste. Even by the altar bitul doesn’t help, therefore the law has remained also regarding wine.

So it says, so he brings in Hilchos Peirush HaMishnayos, it says arba’ah devarim shenitnu al hamizbe’ach, bechol shehu. Therefore the halacha has remained so also regarding wine, yes. It’s true that one can hear a distinction, that it must be like wine fit for the altar, meaning it also takes on certain stringencies, just as bitul doesn’t help.

The Rambam states, And so we rule in all the West. So we rule in the West. West means the Rambam’s West. The Rambam’s West means what? The Maghreb?

Speaker 2: In the West. Ma’arav means the West.

Speaker 1: Ah, anu morim means from where he comes, he comes from the West, ma’arav is the translation, and the Rambam says in Arabic “Maghreb”, but it basically means Morocco, Algeria, that region. It means, Morocco is much more west than Spain. It’s more, it’s both what is west of Spain.

Speaker 2: The west of Spain, yes. It’s west of Eretz Yisrael after all.

Speaker 1: It’s actually west. But, says the Rambam, “And there are those who permit making kiddush on it”, there are those who do permit making kiddush on wine that has honey. “And I say”, and I will say so, “It was not said wine fit for the altar”, what it says “wine fit for the altar” doesn’t mean to say that it must take on all the stringencies, that it may not have any honey and sugar because it invalidates sacrifices, “but to exclude wine whose smell is bad”, it should be good quality, it should be so good that it was used for the altar. If the altar has some other laws that have to do with holiness, that’s a different matter. But to exclude bad wine, for example, rei’ach ra, wine that doesn’t smell good, or meguleh where there is a concern of danger, where meguleh is presumably forbidden because one may not drink it, but b’dieved one does drink it. Or mevushal, cooked wine which is less important. Shemen katchen lechem, on that one cannot, because these are actually lower quality wines, and this is the main halacha that says it must be wine fit for the altar. Why shouldn’t there be honey? It can make it better. Someone specifically likes wine with honey.

Digression: Historical Background About Wine in Europe

Speaker 2: Right. I mean the interesting thing here is this: in Eretz Yisrael there is wine, because in Eretz Yisrael grapes grow in abundance. In Europe it was cold, and many of the places actually used honey. Honey makes “mead”, or one mixes it into the wine.

Speaker 1: One makes wine from honey?

Speaker 2: One mixes honey into the wine.

Speaker 1: Okay, mixed in honey. But in any case, in Europe one struggled much more with wine. So he says, “Chachamim omrim bechol ma’arav Sefarad”, in those places there actually was quality wine.

Speaker 2: Okay. There was no wine in Europe?

Speaker 1: There was, yes. They made wine from raisins. They struggled much more, and because of this the halacha of raisin wine was very relevant. The Rambam will speak about this. I mean if you ask the grandfathers… It wasn’t as easy to get wine as today. There actually was wine, but there were certain countries where they struggled to have wine. I’m a bit uncertain about this. But okay, you can do it the easy way. It doesn’t cost any money for anything.

The opinion of yesh, a well-known halacha, the opinion of yesh, who are they actually.

Speaker 2: How true is that?

Speaker 1: He says it’s stated in the Yerushalmi, yes, one can make kiddush with yayin kunditon, which apparently means this is a wine with honey or other things added, a sweet wine. Okay.

Halacha 15: Wine Whose Taste is Like Vinegar

Says the Rambam, wine whose taste is like vinegar, he says that wine whose smell is bad is not good. Says the Rambam, rei’ach ra is forbidden, but rei’ach ra is not the only thing. If the taste is not good, the taste is like vinegar, even though its smell is the smell of wine, one does not make kiddush on it. And similarly dregs on which one put water.

Speaker 2: What about wine whose taste is vinegar, for example, would it have been kosher for the altar?

Speaker 1: It still has wine, it still has wine.

Speaker 2: Does it still have any connection to the matter of the altar?

Speaker 1: I don’t know, it doesn’t have taste, it doesn’t have good wine. Perhaps to come to the altar.

Speaker 2: But it’s not simple. The Rambam says wine whose taste or smell is bad. He doesn’t say… No, because he says even though its smell is bad. Look, I would have said, one could have simply made it easy, say wine whose smell or taste is bad, or meguleh. No, he says, there is such a type of wine.

Speaker 1: You’re worried about rules and things.

Speaker 2: No, I want to know if… There is such a type… You’ll soon see that it’s the opposite, yes.

Speaker 1: Yes, alright, let’s see. It’s not true that it must be both. It may have a bad smell.

Speaker 2: Not a bad smell. The smell of vinegar and a bad smell are not the same thing. A bad smell is actually that it stinks. The smell of vinegar is edible. I understand that on the altar the main thing is the smell that it makes. If it’s the smell of wine, one doesn’t… One doesn’t taste.

Speaker 1: We’ve already moved on from that. But the smell is only regarding honey, there is the dispute. Now there is a simple explanation. You can call it for the altar, but this is apparently agreed upon even by the opinion that doesn’t agree by the honey.

Speaker 2: No, I’m saying a simple thing, that by the altar apparently the smell is more important, because one doesn’t drink it, and by kiddush one drinks it.

Speaker 1: The Rambam doesn’t hold so. Read further.

Dregs on Which One Put Water

And similarly dregs on which one put water, dregs is the sediment, the leftover residue that remains at the bottom of the wine, which still has in it moisture from wine, and one wants to use the maximum, one puts, one pours in water, which has received a taste of wine. He says, even if it received a taste of wine, but this is not wine itself, it’s mainly water that has a bit of a wine taste, and one makes kiddush on that. Says the Rambam, these words apply, the law that dregs on which one put water is not called wine, only when one did not put on the dregs three parts water and extract less than four, and less than four came out. That means that in the dregs there wasn’t absorbed a quarter of the amount of the whole cup, that means there isn’t in it a quarter wine. But if he extracted four, if he poured in three parts water and four came out, when there was still a lot of moisture, a quarter, this is diluted wine. And they have already learned, I mean in Hilchos Brachos, yes, they have already learned the law of shenatun al hashemarim sheloshah vehozi arba’ah, yes.

Speaker 2: Perhaps in Hilchos Brachos by borei pri hagafen, I don’t remember.

Speaker 1: This is diluted wine, it’s called diluted wine. Diluted wine means when it’s three parts water and one part wine, that’s called diluted wine, and one makes kiddush on it, this is wine.

Halacha 16: A Vessel That Was Full of Wine and One Drank From It

Speaker 2: Can one take another thing that invalidates the wine, because it’s not specifically fixed?

Speaker 1: Yes. A vessel that was full of wine, a vessel that was full of wine, even if it contains several revi’ios, even if the vessel is large and holds a lot, one can fill from it several cups, it has several revi’ios, but if one drank from it, he has blemished it, he has lowered the importance, the wine is called as if blemished, it’s already not, there’s already something in it, it’s already not so important, the person has already drunk from it, and it is invalid, it has become invalid for kiddush, and one does not make kiddush on the remainder, one cannot make kiddush on the remainder, and it is like leftover cups, just like on a cup, you understand, just like one has already drunk from that cup, it’s not a nice… That’s the word, that blemished, even the thickest large bottle, it’s not a real cup, but it’s leftover cups, therefore it’s not a proper thing, you can’t make kiddush on it.

Speaker 2: Yes, continue.

Speaker 1: What he means is that by the previous halacha that one cannot make with the same cup, also doesn’t mean that one can drink a bit and then pour again. One needs literally a new cup because of the matter of blemish.

Speaker 2: Yes, the Shulchan Aruch says that one can pour in a bit of new wine, then it becomes fixed.

Speaker 1: Yes, the Rama… One pours it back in from where?

Speaker 2: The Rama doesn’t say, he doesn’t say so, he says more… there… even strengthen with any majority…

Speaker 1: Ah, you mean to say that one pours directly in even… from the obligations, why do we need to come with the wine?

Halacha 17: Wine Whose Smell is Like Vinegar But Whose Taste is Like Wine

Speaker 2: Yes, wine whose smell is bad, wine whose smell is bad and whose smell is vinegar but whose taste is like wine, but what has a smell like vinegar and the taste is like wine, one makes kiddush on it.

Speaker 1: The taste is after all like a bad smell, as it was said earlier. Here it fits a smell of vinegar but one goes after the taste. Well as said, the taste… if the taste is vinegar, even if it smells like wine it’s not good, but the opposite is good, this depends on the taste, not on the smell.

Speaker 2: No, but it was said smell and bad one cannot, but the smell of vinegar doesn’t mean a bad smell. The smell of vinegar is not a thing.

Speaker 1: Right. Vinegar is not bad, vinegar is a good thing. More sour or what. Vinegar means vinegar, but one uses it, it’s a good thing. Vinegar can be used for recipes, for recipes, one dips in it the bread, yes?

Speaker 2: Pesach night, it’s an important thing, dippable, but it’s not wine.

Speaker 1: Right.

Diluted Wine, Raisin Wine, Fermenting Wine

And similarly diluted wine, and raisin wine, diluted wine which he said earlier, wine with water, or wine that one made from raisins, one makes kiddush on it, provided that the raisins still have moisture in them. But it must specifically be raisins that still have wetness in them, that if one presses them their honey will come out, so that if one wanted to squeeze them the… he calls wine from it… he calls it honey, because it becomes thick. Not wine, it’s the honey, the honey is more than a gram of water. He says that by the raisins, the hard part of the inside is… yes, the drop, the dried drop. It must be enough that the syrup can come out, a bit of juice… some juice must be able to come out, this is not water, it’s more a thick juice, that’s called the wash.

Speaker 2: Right. But by raisins it seems it doesn’t work with hotzi shelisho, hotzi… This is a different type, because the water receives the taste of the whole raisin and soaks in it. But still there must be the honey.

Speaker 1: Yes. It’s a different method. It’s not for yes.

And similarly fermenting wine from the press, wine that is fresh out of the press. One has just squeezed it, this is what we call must, wine after squeezing. The process has begun umm…

Kiddush and Havdalah — New Wine from the Press, Chamar Medinah, and Yom Tov Kiddush

Halacha 17 (Continuation) — New Wine from the Press and Squeezing a Cluster of Grapes

Speaker 1: It’s more a thick juice, which you mean is the wash.

But by raisins it seems that go work it not with hotzi sheloshah, hotzi that. It’s a different type, because the water receives the taste of the whole raisin and soaks in it. But still there must be in it the honey. This is the other method.

And new wine from the press — wine that is fresh out of the press that one has just squeezed, what we call must, wine after squeezing before it has begun to ferment, one may also make kiddush on it, it is also kosher.

And a person squeezes a cluster of grapes — one can even not from the press, but one can literally squeeze by hand, give a squeeze on a cluster of grapes, and makes kiddush on it at that time. That means, right then. At that time means like on that day, because one may not squeeze on Shabbos. He means to say erev Shabbos, he said earlier that one can make kiddush before Shabbos. But the point is that he can give it a go right away.

What is the novelty that press is not specifically? He means to say poor wine that is… There’s no difference, press is the same. It’s stated so in the Gemara, that’s what he means to say. He says it’s a hiddur, a nice thing from making Shabbos. It doesn’t say there wine, because it doesn’t have the taste of wine, it’s grape juice. It’s b’dieved.

Discussion: Grape Juice is Not Kosher for Kiddush

Speaker 2: B’dieved is not b’dieved, because very many people cannot drink wine, and grape juice is their way of being yotzei wine.

Speaker 1: No no, there’s no simchah in drinking grape juice. What one may drink new wine from the press is because it’s a wine, it’s still fresh, and it’s in the middle, it’s not yet completely wine, but not a grape juice which is just a simple sweet drink.

It goes back to what you say that kos shel brachah when one doesn’t drink it is Purim, or kos shel brachah when one gives a taste a drop, where there is a matter of kos shel brachah. But, not everyone likes wine, but everyone wants to do mitzvos properly, one does it as it appears, even if it’s not the real thing, it doesn’t have the content of it. Wine is not important when it’s yayin hamesame’ach, but if it’s called wine, wine one is yotzei. The same reason why people drink kos shel brachah and one gives a small sip, because one wants to be yotzei something. You say it doesn’t make sense, it’s true. But people don’t change so quickly to start liking wine, but they want to do the mitzvah.

He may make kiddush on bread. It’s stated explicitly in the Rambam. Perhaps in the Shulchan Aruch it doesn’t say so, but the Rambam ruled that if someone doesn’t like wine, he should make kiddush on bread, because that he likes. That’s what they liked then.

But not that he should make kiddush on grape juice. That is completely invalid.

Speaker 2: Okay. Medinah sherub yeinah… So one is speaking here of wine chaviv alav, you like it better than the bread.

Speaker 1: The Rambam doesn’t make a distinction. I know, I’m sure it’s b’dieved. And I also hold that grape juice is not wine chaviv alav.

Speaker 2: Why not?

Speaker 1: Because I’ll tell you. Wine chaviv alav, one calls it new wine, one doesn’t call it grape juice. Grape juice is just a new thing. One barely had grape juice before, right? It’s not wine, it’s not… I don’t understand the question.

Wine is dear to him, there is a person who loves a shiur, he doesn’t want to wait until it becomes wine. He has now squeezed out the grapes, it’s sweet, he holds… I’ll tell you even more. Here we’re talking about a… when one goes into the vineyard, yes, then bimei betzir ha’anavim, yes, there is a season in the year, let’s say, yes, Tammuz? And it’s already a whole yom tov, they bring the wine, there’s already new squeezed wine. Okay, one can already make kiddush on that too. But one buys grape juice in the store, and convinces oneself that one is making wine from it? I don’t know. I’m very much against it. I don’t know what to tell you. If someone doesn’t like it, let him make kiddush on bread. What’s the problem?

Halacha 17 (continued) — A Country Where Most of Its Wine is Beer

Speaker 1: Okay, further. A country where most of its wine is beer — a country where the popular drink there, and interestingly he calls it “its wine”, it seems that wine is the term for what one drinks. Chamar medina, chamar also means wine, yes. The accepted alcohol, the beverage of the place, is beer. Most define it. That means there is also wine there.

Even though it is not invalid for kiddush — you don’t have wine, for havdala l’chatchila. Havdala one can indeed make on it, because it’s like chamar hamedina. He doesn’t tell us more what, what is the simple meaning, that means kiddush must be specifically wine? Aha. How one arrived at this he doesn’t tell us. Both are learned, both are from one verse “zachor” and both the Sages instituted that it should be on wine.

Discussion: Why Chamar Medina for Havdala but Not for Kiddush?

Speaker 2: Well, the answer is simple, what is the word, says the Maggid Mishneh, kiddush if you don’t have wine, make it on bread. Havdala one cannot make on bread, therefore one must make it on chamar medina. But everything was… everything havdala everything Maggid Mishneh.

Speaker 1: Ah, he means because for havdala you have another option, therefore they permitted it here. I mean if by kiddush there is another option, therefore they didn’t permit it here.

Speaker 2: But why can’t one make havdala on bread?

Speaker 1: I mean if there is a thing like bread one doesn’t eat there not at night, not at this shiur. Havdala has nothing to do with eating. He says havdala has nothing to do with a meal.

Speaker 2: That means that someone ate melave malka, should differently than before make it on grape juice or on wine, chamar medina…

Speaker 1: I don’t know. The Rambam, here he says two rulings that say differently, both about it. Two rulings that say that one can indeed make kiddush on chamar medina, two rulings that say that one can make havdala on bread, but the plain halacha that the Rambam brings is that for havdala there isn’t on bread, therefore there is chamar medina, kiddush there is on bread, one can make it on bread.

Discussion: What Qualifies as Chamar Medina?

Speaker 1: It’s also interesting, because today for example people are lenient even on, I know, orange juice, Coke, but the language most wine and beer, it seems like it’s still everything in the family of wine, in the terms that it’s a mashkeh hameshaker. Yes. But to go say on something that is not at all in that type, in the… I mean in the Mishnah simply… there was also water. No one used to say that water is a chamar medina.

Speaker 2: What was in those times? Also there was mei peirot, but presumably there were certain things that one could drink. One didn’t used to drink.

Speaker 1: You’re right, we need to be precise. I mean according to my understanding, that one needs to get drunk, that the whole thing is honor, that one should have a bit of joy, you’re certainly right.

Ah, so one comes to this apparently, that most people are not capable, but most people don’t drink any wine, they don’t want to drink a drink, mashkeh hameshaker motza’ei Shabbat… should they yes, is it a deed? Well, it says in the Torah that one must drink wine, and the Torah also speaks in a certain… like normal people… normal people, normal people, hello? What did he do baby? I don’t know… normal people who drink sometimes… you ask a question, like small children… once one used to give small children also to drink wine. Today it’s very not introduced. Yes, one sees at a brit one gives the baby wine. This is a Jewish custom that one drinks from it when one is one day, eight days old. I don’t know what it is by the non-Jews what they drink when they are eight, supposedly. Sorry Chaya.

Digression: Wine with Water (Meziga) in Ancient Times

Speaker 1: But once it wasn’t, once there weren’t any other drinks, no wine. Ah, there wasn’t, I remember that the wine was also mixed with three quarters water. I saw a nice ruling… it’s understood that one can give to a child, this was a ruling. They said that it can’t be, but they have proofs that the founding fathers, that the people who made the ordinance that one may have a gun in America, were always drunk. One can see it, is the drunk! He is the one who said that! It can’t be! The one who is always drunk, through his tolerance level, very high. Is right, can be divided. Like chavel al d’avdin v’lo mishtakchin, it’s already not.

But the Sages were right, that if one sees mei mezug which is only a quarter wine, that means it’s only two percent alcohol comes out. Yes, a normal wine is a quarter 12 percent, if it’s a quarter it’s 4 percent. It’s weaker than our beer. So… it can be so… one can do so. The Sages, this is a true advice. Someone who has difficulty with drinking wine, is this and today there is good wine that is sold to him. Perhaps they’ve already made the meziga in the store, I wonder how they make it. But it’s five percent… I make a caveat, I have here need those times, because I want to drink wine, but I don’t have strength anymore to drink the fancy wine. So they laid wine, it’s good, it gives a whistle to. But very little, not premium. Yes. Okay. Let’s talk about yom tov. Yes, baby?

Halacha 18 — Kiddush and Havdala Yom Tov

Speaker 1: So the Rambam, all these mitzvot that we’ve now spoken about regarding kiddush, interestingly, he goes to recount also yom tov, the mitzva of kiddush yom tov. The first time in Hilchot Shabbat that he tells us about something yom tov, yes? I mean, soon will come Hilchot Yom Tov, we’ll see that very many melachot are basically the same, but we don’t know that yet. Actually interesting that he throws in havdala, kiddush yom tov here.

Look, look, look, see the reason. Just as we make havdala on Friday night and make havdala on motza’ei Shabbat, so… the same thing one does yom tov, one makes kiddush on the night of yom tov when yom tov comes in, and one makes havdala on motza’ei, the same thing motza’ei Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur one doesn’t make kiddush, because one doesn’t drink on Yom Kippur.

For they are all Sabbaths of Hashem — the Torah says that all yamim tovim are called Sabbaths.

Discussion: Where Does It Say “Shabbatot Hashem”?

Speaker 2: How does it say in the verse the language Shabbatot?

Speaker 1: It says “aside from the Sabbaths of Hashem” at the end of Parshat Emor, and I think that the Gemara there says that this means yamim tovim also.

Speaker 2: How does it say Shabbatot Hashem at the end? Before that he says “Shabbaton”, that means Shevita, right?

Speaker 1: I’m quite sure that the language Shabbatot Hashem, “aside from the Sabbaths of Hashem”, must be… Yes, but it can be that it means all, all yamim tovim. Not clear. One sees that Pesach is called Shabbat, yes, there is the concept that shevita and he rests is called Shabbat, including yom tov.

But Shabbatot Hashem, usually what one says about Shabbat, Shabbat Hashem means that the Almighty rested. Yom tov the Almighty didn’t rest, it’s us resting on a miracle or what.

Speaker 2: Shabbat Hashem doesn’t mean that. Like “Shabbat hi l’Hashem”, ah, Rashi brings already there in Parshat Vayakhel, “Shabbat l’Hashem”, just as was done on Shabbat Bereishit.

Speaker 1: That’s right. But it can be Shabbat Hashem means one rests for the sake of Hashem, in honor of Hashem, for the sake of Hashem, as Rashi says there, for the sake of Hashem. The Kuzari elaborates that all yamim tovim are called Shabbatot Hashem, because there is in this a divine thing in the rest, it’s not just people made to rest.

In any case, I think that the Rambam means to say, therefore when it says “Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it”, from which one learns remembrance with praise and kiddush, does it mean specifically Shabbat, it means every rest. It comes out that apparently kiddush of yom tov must also be d’oraita according to the Rambam from the same verse, and therefore it stands here, because here is the mitzva of “Remember the Shabbat day”. Such a thing makes it d’oraita. He says…

Kiddush Yom Tov – D’oraita or D’rabbanan? Text of Kiddush Yom Tov, Havdala, and “Mekadesh HaShabbat v’Yisrael v’HaZemanim”

Kiddush Yom Tov – D’oraita or D’rabbanan?

Speaker 1:

But anyway, I think that the Rambam means to say that therefore, when it says “Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it”, from which one learns remembrance over wine, remembrance at the time of kiddush, does it mean specifically Shabbat, it means every rest. It comes out that apparently kiddush of yom tov must also be d’oraita according to the Rambam, from the same verse, because then it stands here, because here is the mitzva of “Remember the Shabbat day”. Such a thing makes it d’oraita?

He says “Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it”, does he mean the Shabbat day. No, he just says simply like a gezeira shava that they are Shabbatot Hashem.

No, it doesn’t mean, like again, the simple plain meaning doesn’t mean at all to make kiddush. According to the plain meaning, but again, with the plain meaning of the Sages, “Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it” is the mitzva of kiddush. It says directly “Shabbatot Hashem”, it’s clear that it’s d’rabbanan. The Rambam doesn’t say so clearly, he says “just as” and “so”, but he doesn’t say that it’s also a mitzva d’oraita. It’s not clear, he says “Shabbatot Hashem”, therefore it’s the same.

Very good. So, our dispute, like everyone wants to have a dispute, it’s just two people who say things. And actually the Magen Avraham here assumed that it means actually d’rabbanan, but the Minchat Chinuch said that it says “just as”, “just as”, so it’s implied that he means that it’s included in the verse “Remember the Shabbat day to sanctify it”.

It’s not a big practical difference. One practical difference is when he makes a doubt, it must indeed be a real practical difference. Someone doesn’t remember if he made kiddush, he must make it again. The Rambam didn’t say it, but there must be such a practical difference, right?

Speaker 2:

Right. Let’s say he didn’t make it not at davening, not at… he is in doubt about both.

Speaker 1:

True.

Havdala Motza’ei Yom Tov – When Does One Make Havdala?

Speaker 1:

Right. He says “and we make havdala”, the same thing is with havdala, “and we make havdala on motza’ei yamim tovim”. Which motza’ei yom tov? But there is a question, when? Which motza’ei yom tov? He says, both motza’ei yom tov. Either motza’ei yom tov to chol hamoed, that means, when does one make havdala? Yes, right? He already said “and we make havdala on motza’ei the festival”, a regular motza’ei yom tov. That means, when it’s motza’ei yom tov to weekday, motza’ei first days of yom tov, or motza’ei Shabbat to yom tov, when Shabbat falls out on yom tov, when one must make motza’ei Shabbat, what does one do then? One makes havdala. To distinguish, by motza’ei yom tov to Shabbat does one not make any havdala on the cup or at all?

Speaker 2:

No, not at all. One doesn’t say any “Ata chonantanu”, one doesn’t make any havdala.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no, one makes the opposite. The only thing that one says is when it’s motza’ei Shabbat to yom tov.

Speaker 2:

Ah, motza’ei Shabbat to yom tov, right, right.

The Principle of Havdala – Only When It Becomes More Weekday-Like

Speaker 1:

The rule is simple, when it becomes more, a greater holiness, when it becomes more Shabbat-like, one doesn’t make any havdala, because it’s damaging, there’s no reason. You ask like you mean to say by the holiness of Shabbat that it’s not yom tov, can one also say when it becomes Shabbat. But when it becomes holier, one doesn’t make havdala. One must make kiddush, one actually makes kiddush in honor of the new Shabbat. But havdala one makes when it becomes weekday. Even when it becomes chol hamoed it’s nothing more weekday-like. Even when it becomes from Shabbat to yom tov it’s nothing more weekday-like, one can do melechet ochel nefesh. Therefore one makes havdala.

Havdala seems simply that you choose the better from the weaker. When there is no choosing… choosing means to distinguish between categories, like between light and darkness, you have here the good and the weak. Even yom tov to Shabbat there is the better, the higher level, but when it’s the same level or up, there isn’t the text.

Text of Kiddush Yom Tov

Speaker 1:

The text of kiddush yom tov…

Speaker 2:

Yes, the Rama goes and says, the text of the kiddush of yom tov, why doesn’t one say the text of Shabbat? He says so, the blessing is “Blessed are You Hashem our God King of the universe”, he doesn’t say “who sanctified us with His commandments”. Interestingly, by Shabbat one begins “who sanctified us with His commandments”, from which I turned my head that it’s something like a blessing of mitzvot text. This one doesn’t say at all. He says, who chose us, and yom tov one says Shehecheyanu. What did the Rama mention something about Shehecheyanu?

Speaker 1:

No, no, we’ll see the text. “Who sanctified us from every people and exalted us from every tongue”. This is the same language that one says in the prayer of yom tov, “You chose us”.

Speaker 2:

Ah, we’re talking about the distinction of Israel among the nations.

Speaker 1:

“Chose us…”.

Speaker 2:

It’s havdala, kiddush, yes, havdala one says motza’ei yom tov.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I’m saying, distinguishing the Jews from the nations.

Precision in the Language “Vayigdalenu”

Speaker 2:

“Chose us and sanctified us… chose us and made us great”. “Vayigdalenu” looks like a future tense language, such a thing.

Speaker 1:

No, no, wait, I’ll tell you, perhaps one day it will still become, and one should become even greater. The vav makes it for the back.

Speaker 2:

You’re right, it would have been better standing here. “Higdalenu” would have been no problem. “Vayigdalenu” means he will make us great. “Vayigdalenu” means he made us great.

Speaker 1:

But why shouldn’t he say “v’higdalenu”?

Speaker 2:

“Vayigdalenu” is again, “vayigdalenu” would apparently have been better standing. But he can do it also in the causative form. And in the holy tongue it always goes so. “Vayomer” means he said, yes? Not “amar” is also he said, but “vayomer” – he said a whole Gemara that “yomar” means he will say. “Vayigdalenu”, “v’ratza banu v’yifa’arenu”. So the piece doesn’t fit in our mind. We’ll put it in, it’s one piece, no? Ratza banu v’yifa’arenu? What is “v’yifa’arenu”? This is again, does it actually mean in future tense. Ah, not like “ratza v’hechlitzanu”, is indeed future tense. With a vav with a patach. “V’hitkanenu” you also see, it’s past tense, “v’hitkanenu”. Not just “tikanenu”, “v’hitkanenu Hashem Elokeinu b’ahava”.

“Mo’adim l’Simcha, Chagim u’Zemanim l’Sason”

Speaker 2:

“Mo’adim l’simcha”, festivals, times that one should be in joy. “Chagim u’zemanim l’sason”. It’s all double languages. “Kidashtanu”, “romamtanu”, “bacharta banu”, “ratzita banu”, “mo’adim”, “chagim u’zemanim”, it means the same thing basically, right? It’s rhetoric. Let us give what? “Et yom tov mikra kodesh hazeh”. This yom tov mikra kodesh. Mikra kodesh always means when one gathers for holiness, for matters of holiness. “Et yom chag hamatzot hazeh”, or whichever day it is, chag hashavuot or chag hasukkot. And every yom tov also has a title which is the specialty of that day. Yom tov Pesach is “zeman cheiruteinu”, Shavuot is “zeman matan Torateinu”, and Sukkot is “zeman simchateinu”.

It’s interesting, because it looked like joy is first there is a general joy for all yamim tovim, and chag hasukkot is it still “zeman simchateinu”.

Speaker 1:

I would have thought, perhaps it goes double. That is, “mo’adim l’simcha” is mikra kodesh, yom tov. And “chagim u’zemanim”, because he says “zeman”, there is “zeman cheiruteinu”, “zeman matan Torateinu”, “zeman simchateinu”. Yes, but they are all “l’sason”, yes? They are all joy. All are joy. So Sukkot is a double joy such. Or only joy. It doesn’t have any other excuse, it’s only “zeman simchateinu”. It remains so. But Sukkot is called chag, chag Hashem, one speaks of festivals.

He says again with love. Earlier he said that the Almighty gave us with love yamim tovim, and again with love. It’s our will, with love goes up on the word will, our will.

Speaker 2:

No, it certainly goes further, I don’t believe so. I’ll understand why. A remembrance of the Exodus from Egypt. Well, why? For You chose us and sanctified us from all the peoples. And Your holy festivals with joy and gladness You gave us as a heritage. Blessed are You Hashem, who sanctifies Israel and the seasons.

“Zecher l’Yetziat Mitzrayim” in Kiddush Yom Tov

Speaker 1:

So Your holy festivals, earlier he only said that He gave us with love, He gave us with joy. But Your holy festivals with joy and gladness, Your holy festivals of joy and gladness. Like… He gave us with joy and gladness as a heritage, the Almighty gave it to us with joy. When He gave it to us He rejoiced. He gave it to us with joy, with will, with love. I don’t know, all these are one word. The Almighty doesn’t have any feelings. He wants to say something that it’s a good gift that He gives with joy.

But it can’t be. It could be “mo’adei kodshecha shel simcha v’sasson” (Your holy festivals of joy and gladness). And I thought, “mo’adim l’simcha” (festivals for joy) – it refers to what we say “mo’adim l’simcha”. It goes back to what was said then. Simcha (joy) is our simcha. Ahava (love) is the Almighty’s ahava, but simcha is our simcha. That’s how it comes out. It does say in the verses that the Almighty rejoices, yes, “yismach Hashem” (Hashem will rejoice). Okay.

And when it says “zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim” (remembrance of the Exodus from Egypt), it could be, it always has… Besides the fact that on Pesach it’s clearly zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim, but it has to do with the fact that “bachar banu mikol am” (He chose us from all nations). When were we the first time that He showed one nation from all other nations? When we speak here about bechira min ha’umot (being chosen from the nations), we say zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim. Every time the Jews received the special gift of simcha, that is a zecher to yetziat Mitzrayim, and the Jews were chosen. Yes, yes, yes, I think so.

And when it falls on Shabbat, then comes the mitzvah that we spoke about by Shabbat. It’s not so hard to understand why this is a zecher to yetziat Mitzrayim. No, but I’m saying zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim doesn’t mean that the yom tov is specifically a zecher to yetziat Mitzrayim, but rather that we need to have in mind now zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim, that could also be. But the essence of receiving the yom tov for simcha, and the ahava v’ratzon (love and favor), that reminds us of our original being chosen at yetziat Mitzrayim.

“Mekadesh HaShabbat v’Yisrael v’HaZemanim” – When Yom Tov Falls on Shabbat

Speaker 1:

And when it falls on Shabbat, then he says, first mekadesh Yisrael v’hazemanim (Who sanctifies Israel and the seasons), but if it happens to be Shabbat, what does one do then? One says Shabbat first, v’chotem k’derech she’chotem b’tefillah (and concludes as one concludes in prayer). What have we already been told? The prayer has already told us that mekadesh HaShabbat v’Yisrael v’hazemanim (Who sanctifies the Shabbat and Israel and the seasons). I think there the Rema explained that Israel sanctifies the times, Shabbat the Almighty sanctifies, that the Almighty Baruch Hu sanctifies the Shabbat, and the same Baruch Hu sanctifies Israel, and the zemanim (times) already refers to Israel. I think that the “mekadesh” refers to Shabbat and Israel, not to the zemanim. I don’t agree.

The Rema didn’t bring it, I think it’s in the Gemara, but… Yes, it’s in the Gemara. It’s only a question of the order. That is, the Almighty’s sanctification applies to all three. The Almighty sanctifies Shabbat, and Israel, v’hazemanim. Just like “mekadesh Yisrael v’hazemanim,” the Almighty sanctifies both Israel and the times. The Gemara only comes to explain why if so, when it’s Shabbat, do we go in a different order. One should say “mekadesh Yisrael v’haShabbat v’hazemanim,” so it should go in the normal order. But the Gemara says, we can understand it, because Israel has a connection with the times. Shabbat doesn’t have such a connection with Israel. Shabbat – we say “mekadesh Yisrael,” why not? Because Shabbat the Almighty sanctified, and it has less to do with the Jews. So Israel comes in between Shabbat and zemanim. But I don’t believe one should translate “mekadesh Yisrael shehem kidshu et hazemanim” (Who sanctifies Israel who sanctified the times). The Gemara does say so, but I don’t think that’s the translation. I think it makes sense regarding the order.

One must know, because in the text before it also says that the Almighty sanctifies the yamim tovim. It says that the Almighty sanctifies the Jews. “Shebacharta banu… v’kidashta’nu… v’titein lanu… mo’adecha l’simcha, mikra’ei kodesh” (Who chose us… and sanctified us… and gave us… Your festivals for joy, holy convocations). The word “mikra’ei kodesh,” it could be that the holiness of the yom tov, here it doesn’t say that the Almighty… The mikra kodesh means we come together for holiness. That is, the Jews make the kedushat hazeman (sanctification of time). Why does the Gemara say “mekadesh Yisrael v’hazemanim”?

Speaker 2:

“Mikdashecha”? I’m telling you… “Mikdashecha”? It’s only to make the distinction of yom tov from Shabbat, why we put it in between.

Speaker 1:

Okay. What would I have thought?

Laws of Kiddush for Yom Tov and Havdalah – Chapter 29 (Continued)

Text of Yom Tov Kiddush – “Mikra’ei Kodesh”

Speaker 1: “V’kidashta’nu… v’titein lanu… mikra’ei kodesh” (And You sanctified us… and gave us… holy convocations). This word “mikra’ei kodesh.” It could be that the holiness of the yom tov, here it doesn’t say anything about the Almighty, “mikra’ei kodesh” means we come together for holiness. That is, the Jews make the kiddush hazemanim, as the Gemara says. I’m telling you, it’s only to make the distinction of yom tov from Shabbat, why we put it in between.

What would you have thought? The Almighty made the mitzvah of yom tov too. The truth is, everything the Almighty makes. But because the entire kedusha comes from the… Yes, good, it’s not entirely the truth, here there is a point, that on yom tov we make the kedusha and so forth.

Speaker 2: What does it mean that Israel has more with Israel?

Speaker 1: I also meant like you said, because yom tov is more Jewish. But Shabbat is essentially a rest for the entire world. Yom tov has to do with yetziat Mitzrayim, with the miracles that happened.

Speaker 2: Yom tov doesn’t have shevitat behema (rest for animals), shevitat avadim (rest for servants)?

Speaker 1: No, no, not so far to make the drush (homiletic interpretation).

Text of Rosh Hashanah Kiddush

Speaker 1: Further, already. By Rosh Hashanah, right? Okay. What do we say on Rosh Hashanah? On Rosh Hashanah we say: “V’titein lanu Hashem Elokeinu b’ahava et yom mikra kodesh hazeh” (And You gave us, Hashem our God, with love, this day of holy convocation), which yom tov is this? “Et yom hazikaron hazeh” (This day of remembrance). The yom hazikaron, the day when we come up for remembrance before Hashem, “zikaron teru’ah” (remembrance of the shofar blast), the day of tekiat shofar (blowing the shofar), “b’ahava zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim, ki vanu bacharta v’otanu kidashta mikol ha’amim” (with love, a remembrance of the Exodus from Egypt, for You chose us and sanctified us from all nations). Yes, on Rosh Hashanah we also say “zecher l’yetziat Mitzrayim.” We mention it also in the prayer.

Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but it says here, but…

Speaker 1: We also mention it by Malchuyot (Kingship prayers), we mention it everywhere. “Ki vanu bacharta v’otanu kidashta mikol ha’amim” (For You chose us and sanctified us from all nations).

The special conclusion for Rosh Hashanah is “U’dvarcha emet v’kayam la’ad” (And Your word is true and endures forever). The word of Hashem is true and endures forever. Why is this so directly on Rosh Hashanah? We already learned Shabbat, we’ve already forgotten. We’ll say two simple ones. The righteousness of Malchuyot, “Baruch Atah Hashem Melech al kol ha’aretz” (Blessed are You, Hashem, King over all the earth). Mekadesh Yisrael v’yom hazikaron (Who sanctifies Israel and the Day of Remembrance).

Zikaron Teru’ah vs. Yom Teru’ah – The Rambam’s Position

Speaker 1: And the Rambam doesn’t make the distinction. In our siddur it says that if it’s Shabbat we say “zikaron teru’ah,” and if it’s during the week we say “yom teru’ah,” according to the drasha (homiletic interpretation). But the Rambam always says “zikaron teru’ah.” That is, what is by us the zeman (time designation), just as on every yom tov we say “yom chag hamatzot hazeh zeman cheiruteinu” (this day of the Festival of Matzot, the time of our freedom), “zikaron teru’ah” is in place of the zeman of Rosh Hashanah.

V’im chal lihiyot b’Shabbat (And if it falls on Shabbat), what is the order? It is mekadesh Shabbat v’Yisrael v’yom hazikaron, k’derech she’hu omer b’tefillah (Who sanctifies the Shabbat and Israel and the Day of Remembrance, as he says in prayer), just as we said for the other yamim tovim, just as the prayer that we said like Shabbat.

Laws of Yom Tov Kiddush

Kiddush on Wine or on Bread

Speaker 1: The Rambam says further, b’leilei yom tov (on yom tov nights), he said that on yom tov there is also a mitzvah of kiddush and havdalah. What is more when kiddush? The kiddush on wine he says, b’leilei yom tov we say kiddush on wine like Shabbat. V’im ein lo yayin (and if he doesn’t have wine), and he doesn’t have wine, o sheratzah (or if he wants), mekadesh al hapat (he makes kiddush on bread), it’s the same law as Shabbat that one makes kiddush on bread. U’v’yom tov tzafra (And on yom tov morning), he says, mekadshin kiddush rabba, k’derech shemekadshin b’Shabbat yom tov tzafra (we make the great kiddush, just as we make kiddush on Shabbat yom tov morning).

Yaknehaz – Yom Tov Night That Falls on Motzaei Shabbat

Order of Blessings

Speaker 1: Keitzad mevarkhim b’leilei yom tov shechal lihiyot b’echad b’Shabbat? (How do we bless on yom tov night that falls on the first day of the week?) When leil yom tov falls on echad b’Shabbat, that is motzaei Shabbat, one must make havdalah on the Shabbat and kiddush on the new yom tov. So how is the order? B’techilah mevarech al hagefen, v’achar kach mekadesh kiddush hayom tov, v’achar kach mevarech al haner (First one blesses on the wine, and then makes kiddush for the yom tov, and then blesses on the candle), then we make the borei me’orei ha’eish on the candle, v’achar kach mavdil (and then makes havdalah), and the last blessing is the blessing of havdalah. U’v’virchat havdalah omer hamavdil bein kodesh l’kodesh (And in the blessing of havdalah one says “Who distinguishes between holy and holy”), because Shabbat doesn’t come in, v’achar kach mevarech shehecheyanu (and then blesses shehecheyanu). He hasn’t yet said between holy and mundane. So now we can learn. And the Gemara calls this Yaknehaz, yes.

Speaker 2: Yes, it’s a grandfather, he should live.

Speaker 1: Yes, yes.

Shehecheyanu on Yom Tov

Speaker 1: The Rambam says further, kol leilei yom tov u’leilei Yom HaKippurim (all yom tov nights and Yom Kippur night) we say shehecheyanu. As he just mentioned motzaei, but always, leilei yom tov and leilei Yom HaKippurim we say shehecheyanu. U’v’shevi’i shel Pesach ein mevarkhim shehecheyanu (And on the seventh day of Pesach we don’t bless shehecheyanu). Why? Because unlike shemini of Sukkot, which is a regel bifnei atzmo (a festival in its own right) that has different laws which makes it like a new yom tov, shevi’i shel Pesach is one regel bifnei atzmo. Birchat hazeman (the blessing of time), at the beginning of Pesach he already made the birchat hazeman, the shehecheyanu, he already made at the beginning of the yom tov.

Order of Havdalah on Motzaei Shabbat

Speaker 1: The Rambam tells us further to explain the order of havdalah. We’ve only seen so far the candle, and by the way, here by the… We’ve already learned also other laws about the candle, but now he’s going to say how one makes havdalah.

Okay. The Rambam says, seder havdalah b’motzaei Shabbat (the order of havdalah on motzaei Shabbat) is like this, he says, “Mevarech al hayayin, v’achar kach al habesamim, v’achar kach al haner.” (One blesses on the wine, and then on the spices, and then on the candle.) This is the order: wine, spices, candle. “V’cheitzad mevarech al haner?” (And how does one bless on the candle?) What is the blessing on the candle? “Borei me’orei ha’eish” (Who creates the lights of fire).

Laws of the Havdalah Candle

Measure of Light – Until One Benefits from Its Light

Speaker 1: So, now that we’ve learned that the matter of blessing on the candle, we can learn all the laws about which light one makes a blessing on, what is the borei me’orei ha’eish, on what? The Rambam says, “Ein mevarkhim al haner ad sheyehaneh le’oro.” (One doesn’t bless on the candle until one benefits from its light.) We make the blessing on the candle only after we have benefit from the candle. This doesn’t mean that we light it, this means “ad sheyehaneh,” as look what he says further, “Kedei sheye’heh or gadol sheyakir bo bein matbe’a medina zu l’matbe’a medina acheret.” (So that there should be a great light by which one can distinguish between a coin of this country and a coin of another country.) It should be bright enough that one can actually recognize, not like the minimum brightness, I don’t know, by “hichil l’hakir” (beginning to recognize), but really be able to see well on coins, that one can see between one coin and another coin. When we have such a level of benefit, this means that it should be such a type of light that one can have benefit, not that we set up a fire, it should be a strong light, and that’s what makes the benefit, not that we should just fulfill with some little candle.

A Gentile’s Candle

Speaker 1: The Rambam says, “V’ein mevarkhim al ner shel goyim.” (And we don’t bless on a gentile’s candle.) There are laws that we may not. On a gentile’s candle, it’s actually a gentile who lights a candle, we may not make borei me’orei ha’eish on his candle. Why? “Shestaman ovdim la’avodah zarah.” (Because their gatherings are for idolatry.) Generally when gentiles make a gathering where they celebrate, we’re afraid that it’s for idolatry, there’s a concern that it’s for idolatry. A general gathering. When a Jew makes a general gathering, he makes it for service of Hashem, true. And a gentile makes a gathering, he makes it for his deity. A general candle that a gentile… If you know clearly, fine. But if you just find a candle of a gentile, you should assume it’s idolatry, we may not benefit from it.

Discussion: Prohibition of Blessing vs. Prohibition of Benefit

Speaker 2: We may not make the blessing. It seems like benefit, perhaps we don’t yet need to be concerned that it’s idolatry. But for the blessing, they don’t say we may not benefit. But there is a prohibition of benefit from idolatry, no? A candle that was made for a gathering for idolatry, I don’t know what that means. It’s not an offering to idolatry or something. It’s a gathering that’s made, it’s a gentile thing. It’s not a nice thing, but it doesn’t mean it’s actually a prohibition of idolatry. I don’t know. Okay.

Speaker 1: He doesn’t say a general candle for idolatry, he says the gathering. He makes the candle to illuminate so the people should be able to eat, but the reason for the party is…

“V’ein mevarkhim lo al ner shel avodah zarah v’lo al ner shel meitim.” (And we don’t bless either on a candle of idolatry or on a candle of the dead.) I think that’s what he’s talking about. Okay, we couldn’t. He ends with “ein mevarkhim,” he doesn’t say “asur lehanot” (it’s forbidden to benefit).

Candle of the Dead

Speaker 1: We don’t make the blessing on a candle of idolatry or on a candle of the dead. On a candle of the dead there’s certainly no prohibition, it’s just not a joyful… It’s not a hiddur mitzvah (beautification of the commandment), it’s not… We rejoice in what the Almighty created – light. Don’t go take negative light from idolatry or the dead.

A Jew Who Lit from a Gentile

Speaker 1: Further, “Yisrael shehidlik migoy, o goy miYisrael” (A Jew who lit from a gentile, or a gentile from a Jew). A Jew lit a candle from a gentile. Such a gentile candle that we don’t make a blessing on, and then a Jew came and lit his fire from that fire, or vice versa, the gentile lit from the Jewish fire. “O goy miYisrael, mevarkhim alav” (Or a gentile from a Jew, we bless on it). We do make a blessing, I can make a blessing. But “goy migoy” (gentile from gentile), one gentile lit from the second gentile, and you see it, “ein mevarkhim alav” (we don’t bless on it).

Speaker 2: Perhaps this is because we’re afraid of idolatry?

Speaker 1: Yes, I don’t have the novelty, it’s simple.

Discussion: Gentile’s Candle – Gathering or General?

Speaker 2: No, Rabbi, here we’re not talking about a gathering. I don’t understand. Why are we only talking about a gathering? We don’t do for a gentile’s candle, because a general candle, a general light that a gentile lights. It doesn’t say “we don’t bless on a candle of a gentile gathering.”

Speaker 1: But it also didn’t say the word “general gatherings.” I think “a gentile’s candle” means that we’re setting a meal. If you’re sitting at a meal and you’re sitting next to the candle.

Speaker 2: Here he’s talking generally, you just held, I don’t know. You see he brings it as an extra law.

Speaker 1: I understand. Perhaps it’s simple, I don’t know. Okay.

One Who Goes Outside the City and Sees a Light

Speaker 1: If a holech chutz l’krach (one who goes outside the city), a person goes outside the city, he went to become dark at the boundary, v’ra’ah or (and saw a light), he sees a light, and he wants to make the blessing of borei me’orei ha’eish.

Speaker 2: You mean a fire, me’orei ha’eish, not me’orei or.

Speaker 1: He sees fire lit, he sees a bira dilketa (burning fire). So, im rov anshei hakerach goyim (if most of the people of the city are gentiles), we follow the majority, and we think that the light you see from afar is a gentile light, and we don’t make a blessing on a gentile’s. V’im rov Yisrael, mevarech (And if the majority are Jews, he blesses). We follow the majority.

Discussion: Measure of “Recognizing Between Coin and Coin” – In the Light or in the Person?

Speaker 2: Here we see that one can make it even when the “yehaneh le’oro” means that it’s a sufficiently large light. Even there where you stand, the person who is outside the city, he probably can’t see the… I believe it’s hard that one can see… He sees the light, he can’t see between two coins. I believe it’s hard, the people there can see coins, the measure is in the size of the candle, not that the person making the blessing must specifically have such a level of benefit from the candle.

Speaker 1: Perhaps he can, I don’t know. If he comes from afar, he can’t see between two coins, he also can’t see which house it is and so on.

Speaker 2: You made a rule from reality that I’m not sure about. You assume that one can’t, perhaps one can. The old houses can be far from the city, not knowing whose house has a fire burning, but still be able to see well on a coin. I believe it’s hard.

Speaker 1: Okay, but again, you assume, you sit here in an office and you assume how reality works. Okay.

But the good thing, he sees light from afar, it’s not bright by him, he sees light, he can make borei me’orei ha’eish on seeing light.

Speaker 2: I heard what you’re saying, I’m just telling you a problem, that you’re saying a theory how you would have needed to have an office needed to have… There’s a theory, but it doesn’t match reality, without any connection to reality. One can’t do such things.

Light of a Kiln, Oven, Stove

Speaker 1: Or shel kivshan, v’shel tanur, v’shel kirah (Light of a kiln, and of an oven, and of a stove), a fire that’s made for cooking basically, right?

Speaker 2: Ah, kivshan isn’t cooking, but a kivshan is… what is it made for… to seal the tiles…

Speaker 1: Okay, whatever… bricks, yes, usually for a kiln.

L’chatchilah lo yevarchu alav (Initially one should not bless on it), because it must specifically be a candle.

Speaker 2: Interesting. What’s wrong with it? It’s not made to be a… fire? It’s not… initially…

Laws of Havdalah – On Which Light We Bless (Continued)

Law 26 (Continued) – Light of a Kiln and of an Oven and of a Stove

Speaker 1: One can’t be lenient afterward.

Already. Or shel kivshan v’shel tanur v’shel kirah (Light of a kiln and of an oven and of a stove) – a fire that’s made for cooking basically, right? A kivshan, not cooking, but yes, a kivshan, a kiln… what is it made for? A fire. We make in it… Okay, whatever. Or bricks, yes, usually in a kiln. L’chatchilah lo yevarech alav (Initially one should not bless on it), because it must specifically be a candle.

Interesting. What’s wrong with it? It’s not made to be a fire? It’s not… me’orei ha’eish. It’s the fire that’s made for light.

A coal? Ah. No, seemingly it makes sense why there was a reason to distinguish. A candle usually was made to illuminate, to give honor, versus other fires that are made for cooking.

Coal

11. **The Coal**

Ah, a coal. It’s like this. If one inserts a sliver into it and it ignites by itself, if it’s a sufficiently live coal, such that when you put in a small wood chip it will ignite from merely touching the coal, one makes a blessing on it, because this means it’s an ordinary coal, and one sees the light from it. But if not — no.

Light of the Beit Midrash and Beit Knesset

Light of the beit midrash — the light that is lit in the beit midrash, it’s like this, if there is an important person there for whom they light it, if there is an important person there and they light it so that he should have light in the beit midrash, they lit it for light, they lit it so that it should make light for someone, one can make a blessing on it. But if not — if it’s only for the honor of the beit midrash, and it wasn’t made for light, etc., for light it’s not needed, yes, when there’s no one there.

And of the beit knesset — the same thing, if there is a chazzan who lives there, as we learned earlier that usually in the beit midrash there is someone who lives there, a chazzan haknesset who lives there, as we learned yesterday by eruv, one makes a blessing on it — one can make the same reason.

Avukah — Mitzvah Min HaMuvchar

Says the Rambam, “And the avukah for havdalah is mitzvah min hamuvchar”. Until now we’ve been talking about a candle, but he says that the truly better way of making havdalah, the mitzvah min hamuvchar is, it should be a strong light. An avukah is composed of several lights, more than one flame. This is only a mitzvah min hamuvchar.

One Does Not Chase After the Light

And another thing which also shows that it’s not really an obligation, the whole blessing on the light, says the Ein Chazon on the light, “as one does not chase after all the mitzvot”. Like all other mitzvot one must chase after them, pursue them. For example, a mitzvah like putting on tefillin one must go up to three parsaot. There are certain rules, for a mitzvah one must give up to a third of one’s property, here and there. But one must pursue a mitzvah. But the mitzvah of making borei me’orei ha’eish is not that sort of mitzvah. “Rather if it comes, one makes a blessing on it”. One sees that it’s not such an important mitzvah, perhaps it’s not even really called a mitzvah at all, but rather a blessing. If it comes along, one makes a blessing on it.

Discussion: Why There Are Questions About Gentile Lights

It could be that this is the explanation for why there are questions about gentile lights, because you don’t need to go buy lights. It’s only something that when it comes along, questions begin. A light from gentiles came along, a light from far away came along.

Speaker 2: Yes, good explanation?

Speaker 1: Yes, but… it’s because one doesn’t need to make havdalah without, one doesn’t need to go buy, one doesn’t need to go search, so questions arise. He saw a gentile, he saw such a light, he saw such a light, because one makes a blessing on a light that comes along.

Speaker 2: I hear. Okay.

Law 27 – Light That Was Lit on Shabbat for a Sick Person or a Woman in Childbirth

Speaker 1: Further, says the Rambam further, “Light that was lit on Shabbat for a sick person or a woman in childbirth”, for a sick person or for a woman in childbirth, it’s permitted, they lit it, there was a heter — “one makes a blessing on it on motzaei Shabbat”, and then one makes a blessing motzaei Shabbat.

Light That Was Kindled from Wood or from Stones

Says further the Rambam, “Light that was kindled from wood or from stones” — a light that doesn’t burn on a candle that holds the flame, but it’s such a weak flame, sparks that come from wood and stones. One sees that from wood can also come, not really lighting it. But again and again.

Speaker 2: I thought it means that a person made it.

Speaker 1: The novelty is that it burns, a person rubbed together two pieces of wood or two stones and made from that a fire. So does one make on this motzaei Shabbat? Can one make the blessing motzaei Shabbat?

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: “For it was the beginning of its creation by human hands”. Because… the Rambam says “that its creation was initially”. Because that’s how a person made it. Initially, one will ask that a normal way of making a fire is not like this with a little stone. The normal way is something, I don’t know from another fire, I don’t know what is the normal way of making a fire with a match. But he teaches us that this is indeed initially, people when they began to make fire, they made it this way. This means yes, a kosher fire, it doesn’t mean it’s a weak fire, it’s simply a person extracted it from wood.

Discussion: What Is “Fire from Nature”?

Speaker 2: As if the point is that what is meant that one must thank the Almighty for His fire, does it mean that one must take a fire from “nature” and not a fire that a person made?

Speaker 1: No, no. What is a fire from “nature”? From Gehinnom, I don’t know from where. No, no. It means to say you shouldn’t think that this is a weak fire.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: He says because the blessing “me’orei ha’eish” is on the fire that “the beginning of its creation was by human hands”. So it says that… what does he mean? The Rambam hints at this?

Speaker 2: Let’s say this, I would translate it this way, according to… “the beginning of its creation by human hands” was from wood and stones.

Speaker 1: No, but the point is this, “but one does not make a blessing on it on motzaei Yom Kippur”. Motzaei Yom Kippur, if someone made now a fresh fire from wood and stones, one doesn’t make havdalah on it. Why? Because motzaei Yom Kippur there is a special law that one does not make a blessing motzaei Yom Kippur. Motzaei Yom Kippur one makes the blessing on the fire, one says “on a light that rested”. One makes it on a fire that was lit on Yom Tov.

Explanation of “Candle That Rested”

Speaker 2: “That rested” means that it was lit is called “that rested”? Interesting.

Speaker 1: That lived through the Shabbat. “That rested” would have been that it should be extinguished, yes?

Speaker 2: Yes, it seems that Shabbat is also, usually one makes it on such a candle.

Speaker 1: So it seems. But motzaei Shabbat one can also use such a light that was kindled then motzaei Shabbat, because that’s the way. It says that then motzaei Shabbat Adam HaRishon made a fire with two little stones and the like. But motzaei Yom Kippur doesn’t have to do with this, one must make a fire that yes rested on Shabbat.

Discussion: What Does “Candle That Rested” Mean?

Speaker 2: What does it mean a fire rested on Shabbat?

Speaker 1: It means that one lit it erev Shabbat and one didn’t light it on Shabbat. There’s a term “that rested”, that it didn’t rest, it worked, it was lit. Or, even, says the Rema, even that was lit for a sick person or woman in childbirth on Yom Kippur, what happens if one lit the light, one did with it according to law, one lit it erev Yom Tov and not on Yom Tov. But if one lit it on Yom Tov, on Yom Kippur, for a sick person, one also did it properly, because it overrides Yom Tov. For Shabbat removes, Shabbat is removed. For Shabbat removes.

Speaker 2: It didn’t commit any sin, the light.

Speaker 1: Does it mean that the light rested?

Speaker 2: It didn’t commit any sins.

Speaker 1: Shabbat doesn’t mean it rested a whole Shabbat. Shabbat means, it… it avoids that it… what is a candle that rested otherwise? It’s from the Shabbat, but it rested. It didn’t rest, it didn’t light itself on Shabbat.

Speaker 2: Ah, it didn’t light itself on Shabbat through desecration.

Speaker 1: It didn’t light itself on Shabbat through desecration. “That rested not according to law”, yes.

Novelty: Resting from Sin

In short, in other words, what one learns from this is, that if someone desecrates Shabbat or Yom Kippur for a sick person, it means that he rested. He rested. One cannot say, “Today I desecrated Shabbat, I didn’t have any Shabbat.” You did rest. Because resting on Shabbat means doing what the Torah says. Resting from sins. From the sin, not just from sins, yes, from the sin of desecrating Shabbat or Yom Kippur.

It also happens that a Jew must desecrate Shabbat, he shouldn’t say that he didn’t rest on Shabbat. He did rest. Even the candle that did the desecration of Shabbat for the sake of a sick person, is called a candle that rested. It’s actually, the person didn’t desecrate Shabbat for a sick person, he didn’t rest from sin, he rested, because he did the sin. It’s just very twisted the word “rest”. As the Rambam says that not eating on Yom Kippur is called resting. Resting doesn’t mean not eating, Shabbat observance. No, one can do nothing the whole rest, which one must be resting. In short, it’s resting from all work, that’s the thing.

Law 28 – Text of Havdalah of Yom Tov That Falls on Motzaei Shabbat

Speaker 1: Okay, we’ve now learned Yom Tov, now one must learn the text of Yom Tov.

Speaker 2: Should we not say the text of havdalah? Havdalah of Yom Tov?

Speaker 1: Havdalah of Yom Tov that falls on motzaei Shabbat.

Speaker 2: Ah, no, no, we already learned havdalah of Shabbat, we already said the text of havdalah.

Speaker 1: You already said, yes, yes, long ago, when we learned that chapter. Now one must learn the text of havdalah of Yom Tov.

Speaker 2: You already said, one doesn’t begin with “borei pri hagafen” because you already said it. You say the… yes, the simple meaning becomes different.

Speaker 1: You say “hamavdil bein kodesh lechol”, ah, Yom Tov that falls on motzaei Shabbat, he says “hamavdil bein kodesh lechol, bein or lechoshech, bein Yisrael la’amim, bein yom hashevi’i lesheshet yemei hama’aseh”. So the Rambam wants to bring out that even when it’s Yom Tov, he says “bein yom hashevi’i”. He doesn’t say “bein Yom Tov leShabbat”. Why not? Says the Rambam, “as one says on motzaei Shabbat”. Why? “For these are the order of distinctions”. One recounts things that the Almighty distinguished between this and that.

Discussion: Why Doesn’t One Say “Between Yom Tov and Chol”?

Why doesn’t one say “the Holy One Blessed Be He distinguished between Yom Tov and the days around”? Why doesn’t one say it? Because the Rabbis instituted it. No, that’s the text.

What I’m just trying to say, havdalah one doesn’t say about what is now motzaei Shabbat. The text is about all the things that the Almighty distinguished. So what does it matter to me that it’s not now motzaei Shabbat? One is talking now that the Almighty distinguished between Shabbat and Yom Tov. The only thing that is a difference is indeed when Yom Tov is motzaei Shabbat, then one does make, one does say the distinction of “bein kedushat Shabbat likedushat Yom Tov”. But that’s a text. It’s interesting that they didn’t institute it. You could change here half a word, it would be nicer: “bein yom Shabbat leyom chol”, distinction. Would be more fitting for Yom Tov. They didn’t institute it. Why one makes havdalah and kiddush of Yom Tov is because it was Shabbat Shabbaton. One could translate, which is correct, because it says “bein yom hashevi’i”, one cannot translate otherwise.

No Spices and Candle on Yom Tov

Okay, “and one does not need to bless neither on the spices nor on the candle”. On spices and candle one doesn’t make any mitzvah.

Speaker 2: Therefore one doesn’t say why, one already said why one makes spices.

Speaker 1: Ah, here one already said why one makes spices.

Laws of Kiddush and Havdalah – End of Chapter 29

Havdalah on Motzaei Yom Tov – Continuation

Words of the Rambam:

And one does not need to bless neither on the spices nor on the candle on motzaei Yom Tov.

Explanation:

Motzaei Yom Tov one doesn’t bless on spices and not on candle – only hamavdil bein kodesh lechol (and borei pri hagafen).

Note:

Would it have been just Shabbat? But there would be no translation, because Yom Tov is indeed a yom hashevi’i, one cannot say.

Okay, and one does not need to bless neither on the spices nor on the candle. Spices and candle one doesn’t make motzaei Yom Tov.

The Rambam doesn’t say why, because he also didn’t say why one makes spices and candle. He’s now going to say why one makes spices motzaei Shabbat.

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Reason for Blessing on Spices on Motzaei Shabbat

Words of the Rambam:

And one does not need to bless on the spices on motzaei Yom Kippur, and one does not bless on the spices on motzaei Shabbat – but yes, so it’s not said that he has an additional soul.

And why does one bless on the spices on motzaei Shabbat, because the soul grieves at the departure of Shabbat, and one settles it and gladdens it with a good fragrance.

The Rambam’s View Compared to Rashi

The Rambam translates differently than the words of the grieving soul, the Rashi there translates that the additional soul leaves, it seems.

The Rambam says “grieving soul” – the soul is in distress, the language of grief, that the elevated Yom Tov is leaving. Shabbat, not Yom Tov. The Shabbat.

Explanation of the Maggid Mishneh – Why Not Motzaei Yom Tov

And the Maggid Mishneh explains: because on Yom Tov one also didn’t rest so strongly, one did make ochel nefesh. Shabbat is a very strong rest, and one feels bad motzaei Shabbat. Motzaei Yom Tov one doesn’t feel bad.

So says the Maggid Mishneh, one doesn’t know, check it out if it’s so.

Wonderful.

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End of the Chapter

Until here laws of kiddush of Shabbat, laws of Shabbat chapter 29, and Yom Tov.

Right.

Practical Conclusion – Quality of Spices

According to this one must indeed have real good spices. One gives some smell, some grass there, in any case what smells, that’s not gladdening. It must be something that makes him glad. One must bring a hookah, one must make some situation, some good good spices, that one settles it.

Wonderful.

One can now introduce this. You want to introduce that all the children should drink a cup of wine, and I’ll bring hookahs to havdalah.