Laws of Character Traits (Hilkhot De’ot), Chapter 5 (Auto Translated)

Rambam, Hilchos De’os Chapter 5 — The Conduct of a Torah Scholar (Talmid Chacham)

Introduction: The Place of Chapter 5 in the Structure of Hilchos De’os

Speaker 1: Okay, let’s go learn Chapter 5 of Hilchos De’os. Very interesting.

The first two chapters we learned in a general way about the good path, the middle path (derech ha’memutza) for a person. Chapter 3 was perhaps a continuation of that — Chapter 3 was about how the middle path is the correct path regarding bodily desires and the like, and “all your deeds should be for the sake of Heaven” (kol ma’asecha yihyu l’shem shamayim). Then came Chapter 4, which discussed how the body should be healthy — which is also part of “all your deeds for the sake of Heaven.”

Now comes a new chapter, a very interesting one. As a framing, a note about this chapter: seemingly it’s not a chapter for us, because this chapter is specifically for Torah scholars (talmidei chachamim). The entire chapter says that just as every person has their normal middle path, the good path for normal people, but a sage (chacham) is required to maintain an extra level.

Discussion: How Does Chapter 5 Fit into the Overall Structure?

Speaker 1: One needs to understand — is this more than the middle path? Is this the measure of piety (midas chassidus)? How does this work with the middle path?

Because usually the Rambam cites the verses, and the laws are built upon those verses. In the beginning of Hilchos De’os it does indeed go on the verses, because the middle path is the way of God, and the Rambam cites the commandment of “and to walk in His ways” (v’laleches bidrachav). But after that, it doesn’t go on verses.

I think it’s all still under the category of the middle path. Eating in a healthy way is the middle path. And I think perhaps one can say that it’s as if the sage has his own middle path. Yes, this is the middle path of a sage — that for a sage it’s not enough to eat healthy like every other person, rather he needs to be a bit more stringent about eating healthy, and so on.

It sounds weird, because then it enters the realm of midas chassidus, which we learned is not so simple — there are certain things one can do. But he must do it not as midas chassidus, but because for him the middle path is different. It’s a bit hard to understand.

But I think the only connection of this to the previous commandments is that it’s a continuation of the middle path. It’s not a different path that one connects together, right?

Speaker 2: Yes, but it doesn’t look right. It seems to me, if one does want to connect it to the structure, I would have thought — what I started to say a minute ago — that perhaps this goes more as an introduction to Chapter 6.

The entire chapter is not commandments. If it is commandments, as you also said, there were arguments about what it has to do with those who learned — which is sanctification of God’s Name (kiddush Hashem), which is desecration of God’s Name (chillul Hashem), Chapter 5.

Speaker 1: Ah, we discussed that at home — how the sages should conduct themselves in order to create a kiddush Hashem.

Chapter 5 as an Introduction to Chapter 6 — Signs of a Sage

Speaker 2: But here it’s more basic. Perhaps — how does a person know who is a sage? The next commandment will be that one must cling to sages (l’hidbak ba’chachamim). So he says now: what does a sage look like?

Speaker 1: Right, that’s perhaps a better approach. He wants to…

Speaker 2: You need to think of it this way: Hilchos De’os is like this — there’s a person, and then there’s the society, and in the society there are good people and bad people. And one of the basic commandments here, just as we learned that Hilchos De’os contains the basic commandments of interpersonal relations (bein adam la’chaveiro) — not necessarily specifics — the basic commandment is to associate with good people.

So, first one needs to know what… for that one needs to identify better people. So there need to be higher-level people — those are the sages — and how they conduct themselves.

Speaker 1: It seems one could say that one should associate with those people — if the sages don’t conduct themselves well, one doesn’t need to associate with them, right?

Speaker 2: Could be. Because if a sage doesn’t conduct himself this way, then associating with him is more likely to bring about a chillul Hashem.

It won’t help — it could be that the entire Chapter 5 is a condition for Chapter 6. Chapter 6 will state that there’s a commandment to cling to Torah scholars (l’hidbak b’talmidei chachamim). First one needs to know what a talmid chacham looks like. Not because a talmid chacham is… because a talmid chacham has to do with learning Torah, but rather what his external character traits (de’os) look like. Because nobody is going to test a person before associating with him; rather, he’s going to look at the external signs.

Speaker 1: That’s also — but these are signs of a sage, signs of a sage, and then he says that one must cling to sages.

One can perhaps say it this way. It was a nice Torah insight, against those who think that clinging to Torah scholars means believing that someone is a talmid chacham. No — if you see that someone conducts himself in all these ways, then hang out with him, then associate with him.

—

Halacha 1 — A Sage Must Be Recognizable Through His Actions

Speaker 1: So the Rambam says. Yes, so the first… the first sign:

> “Just as a sage is recognized through his wisdom and his views” (k’shem she’hachacham nikar b’chochmaso u’v’de’osav) — just as a sage is recognized by his wisdom.

Discussion: What Does “B’de’osav” Mean?

Speaker 1: I think “b’de’osav” means his views — meaning de’osav actually means opinions, a wisdom…

Speaker 2: Ah, he’s going to talk about character traits (middos) further on.

Speaker 1: I don’t know, it’s actually difficult. It can’t be that he doesn’t mean the word de’os in a simple way, that it should mean something else. I’m not sure. “She’yihyu de’osav” — meaning middos? He’s going to talk about his middos.

Continuation of Halacha 1

Speaker 1: And he is wiser than the rest of the people, and he has better character traits than the rest of the people.

> “So too he must be recognizable through his actions” (kach tzarich she’yehei nikar b’ma’asav) — it says “ma’asav” (his actions), not “middosav” (his traits). Ma’asav — things he does, the way he does them, his dealings simply, his things that he knows. Or de’os, okay. I don’t know.

> “And just as he is distinguished from the rest of the people, so too he must be recognizable through his actions” (u’k’mo she’hu muvdal mi’she’ar ha’am, kach tzarich she’yehei nikar b’ma’asav) — besides being distinguished from the rest of the people by being wise, he must be distinguished from the rest of the people by conducting himself in all matters differently from the rest of the people.

And “ma’asav” he means to say, for example:

– Ma’achalo — the way he eats

– Mashkav — he drinks

– Bo’el — how he conducts marital relations

– Diburo — how he speaks

– Malbusho — how he dresses

– V’chalkalas devarav — how he manages his words, how he budgets his words. Yes, “chalkal” means budget. He budgets his words with wisdom.

Speaker 2: Could be like what we learned — meaning, we learned earlier about being concise (derech ketzara), those kinds of things, not making mistakes.

Speaker 1: Ah, yes.

> “U’v’masa u’v’matano” — the way he conducts business.

> “And all his actions should be pleasant and refined to the highest degree” (v’yihyu kol ma’asav na’im u’mesukkanim b’yoser) — a sage must have all his things look different from other people, and it must be even more beautiful and even more refined, proper, than all other people. Without a doubt.

—

Discussion: Why Is More Demanded of a Sage?

Speaker 1: So, it’s very interesting. I mean, I feel like I’m missing something. Perhaps the one thing from this shiur — that we say things that I’m missing, and gradually one can fill it in as one learns better.

Here it needs to be that there shouldn’t be any stigma. So, this is a sage — he’s different from everyone, better than everyone. By virtue of being a sage, his mind is different, he is distinguished from the rest of the people because he knows, he learns. That’s the meaning of a sage. But now, if so, his actions must also be distinguished from the rest of the people — better. Not just distinguished, where one can see that he’s distant from people, but better than the rest of the people.

This is a basic thing about a sage — that he’s better than the rest of the people. But a sage can make a mistake — he can think: “Okay, I’m better than everyone by virtue of knowing more.” No — if you know more, you also need to be better in all these other ways.

How Does a Sage Know He Is Obligated?

Speaker 2: And everything is more encompassing. But not just more — you can say here, he’s speaking to the one who is a sage. How does a person know that he’s a sage and all these things obligate him?

Speaker 1: Because he knows what he knows. He knows he’s a sage, he knows he knows more than all other people. Consequently, he’s now obligated in all the other things that come along.

Discussion: What Does “Nikar” Mean?

Speaker 1: “Nikar” doesn’t seemingly mean recognizable… perhaps also, yes. Does nikar mean it’s recognizable to others, or it’s recognizable that the distinction is genuine?

Speaker 2: It’s defined. Right, he’s not sure. He does say “muvdal mi’she’ar ha’am” — it means yes, not only is it defined, it’s visible. Meaning, it shows itself.

Speaker 1: In other words — if the world were different, let’s say, many times it’s like this, right? The world is here, everyone knows — there are sages and there are non-sages. And what makes the sages? That they’re smart. That’s not a good situation. One needs to know that the sages are also smarter and also better.

Discussion: Is This Kiddush Hashem or a Genuine Demand?

Speaker 2: And what’s the growth here? I’m missing something, I’m missing. Why? What would be bad if it were like that? I’m missing something.

Speaker 1: Earlier we talked about kiddush Hashem — that’s understandable. But he doesn’t say anything about kiddush Hashem. He simply says: if you’re different in this way, you must be different even more.

Speaker 2: I’m missing something, I’m missing some explanation for this.

Speaker 1: Kiddush Hashem — why should there be a kiddush Hashem? Okay, I don’t know.

And seemingly all the things he’s going to detail for us — most of them are not midas chassidus. It’s difficult.

Speaker 2: One needs to know — we’re talking already after every person conducts himself as a Jew, yes? We’ve already learned now a chapter about how one eats, how one conducts oneself, kiddush Hashem. Why isn’t it enough that the sage, besides all the ways he conducts himself like every normal Jew, is also greater in wisdom and knowledge? Something requires that there be a conduct to also be even more than everyone, based on his wisdom and knowledge.

Speaker 1: Right. The wisdom and knowledge demands more of him.

Insight: Hilchos De’os Divides into Two Levels

Speaker 2: And again, right — or my way of asking the question would be: if all the things we’re going to learn here, are these things that everyone actually needs, just the sage actually does them, or is this actually midas chassidus?

Speaker 1: No, seemingly it’s not lacking for ordinary people, because the purpose of all these things is seemingly a matter of — I don’t want to say ugly words — but it’s a matter of public relations. He should not look like other people. One should see on him that he’s more distinguished. He shouldn’t associate with ordinary people.

Speaker 2: He should be distinguished (mavdil). That’s the word — he should be distinguished. Why should he be distinguished? Because if you’re renowned for piety, there are people who will look away when the one renowned for piety doesn’t do even what he should.

Speaker 1: Okay, there you already have an answer. Here he doesn’t say specifically a sage who is renowned for piety. Right — this is something basic that’s demanded of every sage. And there something was demanded of a great righteous person (tzaddik).

Speaker 2: Very good.

Speaker 1: So there it’s about public relations officially — “and you shall not desecrate My holy Name” (v’lo sechalelu es shem kodshi). But I think the meaning here is not about that. The meaning is a genuine demand that a sage must be better also in action. It’s not a… it’s not a matter of kiddush Hashem.

I’m saying this — it’s not a matter of kiddush Hashem. By the way, it’s similar, it’s a similar topic, but that’s not the point here.

I think the point is… it could be it has to do with this: Hilchos De’os — Hilchos De’os is like how to be a perfect person. The reality is that most people can’t be perfect. It’s a funny thing to say “halachos” — when one writes halachos, it’s always halachos that apply equally to everyone (shaveh l’chol nefesh). But to truly be a good person — it’s not realistic to talk about everyone being a good person.

Therefore Hilchos De’os divides into: the normal things one can demand of a normal person, and what one can demand of a sage. We’ll see certain distinctions here where one can see that it’s clear that from a normal person this isn’t demanded — not because it’s not truly the ultimate perfection (tachlis ha’shleimus), but because it’s not required, it’s not expected. But from a sage it is expected. But in truth these are things that are indeed perfection of the soul (shleimus ha’nefesh), and it’s basically what a person should be, just it’s not realistic.

Speaker 2: Because many of the things he lists here, he also listed for ordinary people. For example, look at the first thing.

Speaker 1: Let’s see. Perhaps we’ll see further.

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Halacha 1 (Continued) — Ma’achalo: How a Sage Eats

Speaker 1: Okay, further. The Rambam says briefly. Better. For example, he began that one must be recognizable in his eating and drinking. He’s now going to go into what this means — the eating:

> “A Torah scholar should not be a glutton” (talmid chacham lo yehei gargeran) — a talmid chacham may not be a glutton.

> “Rather, he should eat food that is fitting to keep his body healthy” (ela ochel ma’achal ha’ra’ui l’havri’os gufo) — he should only eat foods that are fitting to make his body healthier.

And even from those foods that are healthy foods, one should not eat in a coarse manner (achilah gassah) — one should not eat too much or too quickly.

> “And he should not pursue filling his belly like those who stuff themselves with food and drink until their stomach bursts” (v’lo yehei rodef l’malos bitno k’osan she’mismal’in ma’achal u’mishteh ad she’tipu’ach kereisan) — and he should not be like those people who overeat until their belly nearly bursts.

Rambam, Hilchos De’os Chapter 5 — Recognizable in His Eating and Drinking

A Torah Scholar Should Not Be a Glutton — The Sage’s Eating Style

But in truth these are things that are indeed human perfection (shleimus ha’enoshi), it’s basically what a person should be, just it’s not realistic. Because many of the things he lists here, he also listed for ordinary people. For example, look at the first thing. Let’s see. Very good. Okay, so perhaps… let’s see further. Go on, say the Rambam. Okay. Better.

For example, he began that one must be recognizable in his eating and drinking. He’s first going to speak regarding the eating. “A Torah scholar should not be a glutton” (talmid chacham lo yehei gargeran) — a talmid chacham may not be a glutton. “Rather, he should eat food that is fitting to keep his body healthy” (ela ochel ma’achal ha’ra’ui l’havri’os gufo) — he should only eat foods that are fitting to make his body healthier. “And even from healthy foods he should not eat in a coarse manner” (va’afilu min ha’ma’achalim ha’bri’im lo yochal achilah gassah) — and even from those foods that are healthy foods, one should not eat in a coarse manner, one should not eat too much or too quickly. “And he should not pursue filling his belly like those who stuff themselves with food and drink until their stomach swells” (v’lo yehei rodef l’malos bitno k’osan she’memal’in ma’achal u’mishteh ad she’tipu’ach kereisan) — and one should not be like those people who overeat until their belly nearly bursts.

“And about them it is stated explicitly in the tradition” (va’aleihen meforash ba’kabbalah) — and about those people who overeat it says in the words of the Prophets — “And I will spread dung upon your faces, the dung of your festivals” (v’zarisi feresh al peneichem peresh chageichem) — I will spread the filth of your festivals, of your great feasts, upon you. “The sages said: these are people who eat and drink and make all their days like festivals” (amru chachamim, eilu bnei adam she’ochlin v’shosim v’osim kol yemeihem ka’chagim) — these are people who constantly, every day is like Purim for them, every day they eat great feasts and eat and drink too much.

[Insight] Why Does the Rambam Bring This Verse Only Here and Not in Chapter 4?

I want to understand why the Rambam didn’t bring this verse earlier when he discussed… Ah, because earlier he didn’t mention — here there’s a matter of proper conduct (derech eretz), it’s not healthy, besides it not being healthy it’s perhaps a matter of… I don’t know, making every day a holiday is… So I’m thinking two things. So being too immersed in this world, besides the health aspect, there’s perhaps another deficiency.

[Insight] “Bnei Adam” vs. “Chachamim” — Two Types of People

Right, I was thinking two things that I’m thinking. One thing I’m thinking, first here you see that it’s bnei adam (ordinary people), and it’s entirely correct that we learned that it speaks of ordinary people, because here specifically, there are such types of people, and there are sages who are not that type of people. He’s not saying — Hilchos Chapter 4 that we learned is not that you shouldn’t be that type of person, simply, one shouldn’t eat because you’ll get sick. Here you see that there are two types of people: there are such people who eat and drink and make all their days like festivals, and there are other people, sages, who are not those people.

The Food of the Wicked — The Opposite of the Righteous

“And they are the ones who say” — and these people are the ones who say, perhaps this belongs as one section — these people are the ones who say “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” “And this is the food of the wicked” — this is how the wicked eat. The wicked, very good, because earlier he said that a righteous person knows that eating contributes to his health, and this person is exactly the opposite — he thinks, “I’m going to die anyway, let me grab as much food as I can.”

“These tables” — the tables upon which feasts are constantly made, “this is what Scripture disparages” — this is what the verse disparages and says: “For all tables” — the table, you think it’s a pure table, it’s a table “full of vomit and filth, without a clean place” — it’s full of filth, with repulsiveness, without a place, there’s no room left.

These are really very graphic verses, because he said that the end result of eating is excrement, your table is already excrement, it’s already full of filth. But further you see that there’s a type of person that he’s disparaging here, right? It’s not just an embellishment, he says “wicked,” he calls them wicked.

But the Wise Man — One or Two Dishes

The next verse he already brought in the previous introduction as well: “But the wise man eats only one dish or two.” It’s interesting that he hasn’t yet told us this principle, that one eats only one dish or two. Does this relate to health? As a health matter, it’s not necessarily so.

“And he eats from it only enough for his life, and that suffices” — he eats only as much as is needed for his life, and that’s enough. “This is what Solomon said: ‘A righteous person eats to satisfy his soul'” — a righteous person eats only as much as his soul needs to be healthy, to be satiated.

[Chiddush] Here He’s Not Speaking in Terms of Medicine — It’s a Type of Person

Right? And here he’s not speaking in terms of medicine. The practical difference can be quite simple: even if he eats a little of each thing, but don’t pile it up, don’t fill a table with a bunch of different foods — that’s more about the luxury, the… it’s a style, a style, a kind of person.

[Chiddush] Two Reasons — The Distinction Between Chapter 4 and Chapter 5

It could also be — this is the second thing I started saying earlier — it could also be that besides the fact that it’s a type of person, the wise man, what type of person is he? Just like the matter that was stated in chapter 3, right? He directs his intention toward knowledge of God (yedi’as Hashem).

So, the reason — there could be a distinction in the reason. Very good, the two chapters are exactly the two reasons, right? Chapter 4 — the matter that the Rambam says in chapter 3, that someone who doesn’t eat too much in order to be healthy, that’s not perfection (shleimus). So, a wise man, why does he eat only proper food? In order that — and in order that he should be able to direct his wisdom toward knowledge of God. So the wise man being recognizable through his food is an entirely different matter. Although perhaps it practically does the same thing — both, a normal person who isn’t a glutton also eats healthily — but the wise man eats healthily for the reason of his wisdom. So his wisdom is what governs this, not just medicine.

[Chiddush] Bitul Torah Through Excessive Preoccupation with Eating

It could also be that he resembles someone who eats delicacies, which from a health standpoint, he takes many foods to eat, he doesn’t consume too much, but it’s bitul Torah — he’s simply preoccupied with eating.

The Rambam would have agreed with the well-known idea that a king’s meal is apple, milk, noodles, potato. The Rambam says one should eat one or two types of things, one is good.

Where the Wise Man Eats — In His Home at His Table

So the Rambam says: “And when the wise man eats this small amount that is proper for him” — that’s how much he eats. Even when he eats, we’re going to learn the way he eats and where he eats and so forth.

The Rambam says: “And when the wise man eats this small amount that is proper for him, he should eat it only in his home at his table” — he should eat in his own house and at his own table. “And he should not eat in a store” — he shouldn’t eat in any store, “nor in the marketplace” — and not in any street, “except out of great necessity” — only if there’s a great need, he wasn’t home and he needs to eat outside, he may do so occasionally.

Why? The reason for this is “so that he not become disgraced before people” — he shouldn’t become disgraced before people, he shouldn’t… this is a matter similar to kiddush Hashem (sanctification of God’s Name), he shouldn’t become disgraced before people.

Not Eating with an Am Ha’aretz and Not at Luxurious Tables

The Rambam says: “And he should not eat with an am ha’aretz” — he shouldn’t eat with an ignoramus, he already mentioned this earlier in the Laws of Kiddush Hashem. “Nor at those tables that are full of all good things like filth” — also not at a table where they lay out a great feast.

He states a new condition: even if he only eats a little, but from a table that is prepared with luxury and excess, there the wise man should not eat at all.

[Digression] What Does a Torah Scholar Do When He Needs to Fundraise?

There’s a problem — what does a Torah scholar (talmid chacham) do when he needs to go after money? He has supporters, and they make a feast. One needs to think about this. Because there’s a wealthy person who sets up a table full of all good things like filth, and the rabbi sits there at the head of the table in order to accomplish something — that’s the reason. You understand? Perhaps that’s somewhat of a kiddush Hashem. Perhaps.

When the Rambam spoke in the Laws of Kiddush Hashem, he also mentioned that one shouldn’t mix with the ignorant, but he did give advice that one shouldn’t be too separated from the masses. Mixed in, sometimes when he’s called to a feast and he eats in a refined manner. Okay, the royal table is not a mitzvah, it’s for the great, better people, there’s no understandable reason.

Only a Seudas Mitzvah of Torah Scholars

And he shouldn’t go eat at feasts where there’s a large crowd eating together. Rather, he may only eat in public places — he should eat only at seudos mitzvah (festive meals for a mitzvah), such as a seudas erusin (engagement feast) and nisuin (wedding feast), a wedding feast. And which wedding? Not a wedding of an am ha’aretz, but of a Torah scholar who marries the daughter of a Torah scholar. That’s a wedding where the Torah scholar belongs and where he may join in eating.

The Early Pious Ones — Never Ate at Others’ Homes

The Rambam continues: “And the righteous and the early pious ones (chasidim harishonim) never ate at a feast that was not their own” — they were always strictly careful about this. Regular Torah scholars, the less the better, but the righteous and early pious ones never ate anywhere but in their own homes.

[Chiddush] The Rambam’s Interpretation — Being Recognizable, Not Just Kashrus or Theft

The Rambam interprets — one can learn this in various ways. One could say it’s about theft (gezel), only from one’s own money, only one’s own things, kashrus. The Rambam says it’s a matter of refinement. Or one could learn that it’s about not benefiting from another’s table — there’s such a point, such a type of person is like Shmuel the Prophet, he only takes, only eats his own.

The Rambam understood that it has to do with this: when you go to a big party, he makes the feast himself, you become less recognizable. The Torah scholar needs to be recognizable, he needs to be different. The ignorant people always sit together — the Torah scholar is never there.

Yes, good. You’ll ask, the Torah scholar eats anyway. You’ll ask, so let the Torah scholar eat, let him eat here. No, I eat at home, because that way he should be recognizable. You don’t need to see me eating. One doesn’t need to see him. At home one eats in a different style than one eats at your place. At your place one eats in the style of a glutton, at my place one eats like a proper Jew.

When he does eat, he should eat not at someone else’s table, because those are altogether lower, and one shouldn’t affiliate with feasts for ignorant people. Because that table is a glutton’s table, there’s no…

[Digression] A Rabbi Who Hosts a Grand Table for Ignorant People

And one needs to ask the rabbi when he hosts a grand table for all the ignorant people until he pushes it. That’s a different matter, that’s being mekarev (drawing close) Jews, again. The Rambam himself wouldn’t have placed any restrictions if he does it because he needs to raise money for Jews, that’s his simple obligation, that’s his hishtadlus (effort) that he has to raise money for Jews to cover the institutions. We’re talking here when it’s applicable, and when it’s applicable.

The Rambam continues with advice, you can learn from the early pious ones. Haven’t learned. Yes. So it is — the wise man regarding drinking.

Recognizable in His Drinking — How a Torah Scholar Drinks

The Rambam already mentioned that drinking wine is not a bad thing. But when he drinks wine — “he drinks only enough to moisten the food in his intestines” — in order to soak, meaning that the food in the intestines should be moist. Just as the Rambam said earlier that one needs to be able to pass it easily — when one drinks it will help the passing. But not to drink too much.

It appears that when one drinks to moisten the food in his intestines, from that one doesn’t become drunk.

Drunkenness — A Sinner, Disgraced, Loses His Wisdom

But someone who does drink enough and becomes drunk — “behold, this person is a sinner, disgraced, and loses his wisdom.” Meaning, disgraced — and presumably if he does it in public. Ah, no, he’s going to say. Even when he drinks by himself, nobody sees — behold, this person is a sinner, disgraced, and loses his wisdom, he loses his wisdom. He loses his wisdom simply while he’s drinking. Those few hours when he’s drunk he has no wisdom — there’s a concern for those few hours.

“Mishtaker” — A Lifestyle, Not a One-Time Occurrence

Also “ha’mishtaker” means… mishtaker… again. One says these things… mishtaker means he has a lifestyle of drunkenness, not that he gets drunk once on Purim. Let me finish the sentence.

Yes, mishtaker, exactly. So, even once… perhaps also once, he’d need to discuss Purim with the Rambam, he says perhaps one should do it. Okay, but that’s an exception. But in general it causes loss of his wisdom. He becomes a drunkard. Yes, very good. He becomes a drunkard, he starts getting drunk every day.

Drunkenness Before Ignorant People — Chillul Hashem

“And if he became drunk before ignorant people” — besides the usual sin of drunkenness — “behold, this is a chillul Hashem (desecration of God’s Name)” — he degrades the Name of Heaven, because ignorant people have a certain impression they carry of a Torah scholar when they see him like that.

The Rambam says: “And it is forbidden to drink in the afternoon, even a little.”

Rambam, Laws of De’os Chapter 5 (Continued) — Matters of Drinking in the Afternoon and Matters of Marital Relations

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“And It Is Forbidden to Drink in the Afternoon, Even a Little”

Speaker 1: Perhaps also once the Rambam said about Purim, perhaps one should do it. Okay, but that’s an exception. But in general it causes loss of his wisdom — he becomes a drunkard, yes, very good. He becomes a drunkard, he starts getting drunk every day.

And even if he’s not actually before an am ha’aretz, besides the usual sins of drunkenness, he has such a chillul Hashem, he desecrates the Name of Heaven, because to the eye — what kind of face does a Torah scholar present when one sees him like that.

The Rambam says: “And it is forbidden to drink in the afternoon, even a little.”

Why is it forbidden to drink wine during the day, in the afternoon?

Source — Mishnah Avos: “Morning Sleep and Afternoon Wine”

Speaker 2: Yes, there’s a Mishnah — morning sleep and afternoon wine.

Speaker 1: There’s a Mishnah that states as follows: Rabbi Dostai ben Harkinas says: “Morning sleep, and afternoon wine, and children’s chatter, and sitting in the gatherings of the ignorant — remove a person from the world.”

He says that this is one great… his lifestyle.

Digression: A Word About Kollel Young Men

I once heard from my rebbe, he said that this is a Mishnah that speaks against certain kollel young men. “Morning sleep” — the Rambam also mentioned earlier that one should sleep at night and wake up early in the morning. Yes, then he comes to kollel and sleeps, and one arrives late to Shacharis, and one makes a l’chaim, and later one schmoozes a bit about politics, and then one goes to some “sitting in the gatherings of the ignorant.” In short, and one still considers oneself a kollel young man after all that. Okay.

Discussion: What Does “It Is Forbidden to Drink in the Afternoon” Mean?

Speaker 2: Fine, but in the afternoon one shouldn’t drink at all? Or is drinking generally included in eating?

Speaker 1: Ah, the Rambam says clearly, and you asked earlier, what about drinking being included in eating?

Speaker 2: It’s not included in eating when someone is drunk.

Speaker 1: No, he simply says that when one eats, one drinks as part of the meal, that’s not drunkenness, that’s a part of the meal, that’s contained. What’s going on here? He already said that in general one should always only drink for the sake of eating, for the sake of Heaven. So what’s happening in the afternoon? What is he adding about the afternoon?

Speaker 2: The eating for the sake of Heaven doesn’t mean that it’s only as much as you need to have, it’s not bloating. It’s a part of the meal, it turns out one drinks a little. But what is the “it is forbidden to drink in the afternoon”? Ordinarily it’s forbidden to drink except as part of eating.

Speaker 1: He says, ah, perhaps “afternoon” means he was referring to some such moment, the afternoon was some such time when lately people drink like that in the afternoon, perhaps that’s the point.

Or perhaps he means closer to nighttime, when one eats the regular meal. Or at night even not during a meal, perhaps at night is a time when it’s evident that his intention is for the sake of Heaven.

Speaker 2: There should be a set time, but the afternoon is not a time, because one is at work. You’re an energetic young man or you already stink in the afternoon of alcohol?

“And the Prohibition Is Only on Wine After the Meal”

Speaker 1: “And the prohibition is only on wine after the meal.” What is being warned against is not the wine one drinks during the meal that helps the food, but rather the wine after the meal.

Ah, good. So there’s an idea — if someone wants to drink more, he should eat more.

Speaker 2: But you have a problem, one may not eat too much, “only like one or two dishes.”

Purim — An Exception

Speaker 1: Okay, but I am thinking about Purim. The Rambam in the Laws of Kedushah said that the mitzvah of “ad d’lo yada” (until one doesn’t know the difference) is indeed part of the Purim feast. Not like some who learn that it’s extra things. The Rambam says “How? He eats at this feast, drinks wine.” It could be that even on Purim the wine comes during the meal, not as wine after the meal. It’s a part of the feast. Yes.

It could be that what they say that one should drink more than his usual study amount means more than what is usually permitted for a Torah scholar who studies, and he may even drink a little more than what he’s allowed according to his learning.

Okay, but again, these laws are general. If there’s an exception for Purim, it could be that it’s an exception. But as we say, as we’re learning now, it could still be that there’s an exception. We’re talking here in general terms.

—

Recognizable in His Marital Relations — How a Torah Scholar Conducts Himself in Matters of Intimacy

So up to here is regarding eating, right? Now we’re going to talk about his marital relations (be’ilaso) — how the intimacy of a Torah scholar is different from the common people. Yes.

“It Is Proper for a Torah Scholar to Conduct Himself with Holiness”

The Rambam says: “Even though a man’s wife is permitted to him at all times” — it says “at all times” when she is in a state of purity (b’taharah). Again, yes. Not everything can be…

“It is proper for a Torah scholar to conduct himself” — the Rambam doesn’t say talmid chacham, but talmid chachamim.

Precision: “Talmid Chachamim” Not “Talmid Chacham”

One who is a student of wise men. Right, because talmid chacham doesn’t make sense. You’re either a student or a wise man. But I also say, a wise man no longer needs the Rambam to speak to him, because he already knows everything. We’re talking about as long as he’s still a student of wise men. Yes. The Rambam is always precise about saying this. We would have said talmid chacham, which is an ignorance. A talmid chachamim? No, it could be that… a talmid chachamim is a certain type of wise person. Nowadays it depends more on whether one has a primary teacher (rebbe muvhak). Okay.

Speaker 2: I think that when one says talmid chacham it’s not a name for a world. It means a student of a wise man. Of wise men. Yes.

“And He Should Not Be Found with His Wife Like a Rooster — But Only from Shabbos Eve to Shabbos Eve”

Speaker 1: Okay. So “it is proper for a Torah scholar to conduct himself with holiness” — he should conduct himself with an even greater holiness. “And he should not be found with his wife like a rooster” — he shouldn’t constantly be with his wife like a rooster.

“But only from Shabbos eve to Shabbos eve” — he should only be with his wife on Shabbos, from Friday night to Friday night.

Discussion: “If He Has the Strength” — Two Interpretations

“If he has the strength” — does this mean if he has the strength to restrain himself and do it only once a week, or even then, because it has to do with what the Gemara says that Torah weakens a person’s strength, and therefore they would only do it on Friday night.

So if he’s a very great Torah scholar and he doesn’t even have the strength for that?

Speaker 2: Yes, I think this seemingly goes back to what they learned in the previous chapter, that when one doesn’t have strength, there’s a danger of being “bo’el” (having relations improperly). So if there’s a Torah scholar (talmid chacham) who also studied extensively on Shabbos night, and he’s already weakened from learning, or it’s an elderly Jew who doesn’t have strength, whatever — it depends on whether he has the strength to fulfill the obligation of Friday night.

Conjugal Obligation (Mitzvas Onah) — According to One’s Strength

Speaker 1: It’s like what they learned — I think the Rambam already asked this, I mean the Rav already asked this in the previous chapter or one of the previous chapters — what about the conjugal obligation (mitzvas onah).

But they learned that the definition of mitzvas onah is according to one’s strength. It could be that you don’t have any obligation of onah at all — that itself is an onah. Onah is after you have strength, then each person is told according to his situation. But someone who has absolutely no strength is exempt from onah, it’s not…

“V’ch’she’yesaper imah” — The Language of “Sefer” (Book)

Speaker 2: Yes. “V’ch’she’yesaper imah” — the Rambam says, when he engages with her in matters of intimacy. “Yesaper” doesn’t mean chatting, right? It means what’s called preparation for intimacy, which is what it says that one shouldn’t be “bo’el v’dores” or “dores u’vo’el,” but rather “shapir minhaga reish” — one should converse a bit beforehand.

“Lo yesaper lo b’techilas halaylah” — that’s the plain meaning of the language. The reason the Rambam uses this language is simply because the guidance about “b’techilas halaylah” uses the language of the Gemara, “adam mesaper imah.”

Speaker 1: But seemingly “mesaper” means actual intimacy, he doesn’t mean the conversation.

Speaker 2: Ah, “mesaper” means the intimacy itself, not the preparation for intimacy. The Rambam switched the language in the middle.

“Not at the Beginning of the Night… Nor at the End of the Night… But in the Middle of the Night”

Speaker 1: “V’ch’she’yesaper imah, lo yesaper lo b’techilas halaylah k’she’hu save’a u’vitno mele’ah, v’lo b’sof halaylah k’she’hu ra’ev, ela b’emtza halaylah k’she’nis’akel hamazon sheb’me’av.”

Not when he’s just eaten, just as the Rambam said earlier that one shouldn’t have intimacy right after eating, and not at the end of the night when he’s hungry, but in the middle of the night when the food in his stomach has been digested. This is all what he already said before, just adding the point that the proper time for this is in the middle of the night.

Novel Insight: “Mesaper” — A Torah Scholar is Always with a Sefer (Book)

Speaker 2: It’s very nice, but a Torah scholar is called “mesaper.” A Torah scholar is always with a sefer, with a book-book. “Ishah mesaper.” It’s more of a refined way of putting it, but he also speaks more refinedly.

What people know about receiving books after cholent — that actually comes from this. It’s simply not right after the meal, and not very late when one is already tired, already hungry again.

Speaker 1: Yes, here he used the language “mesaper” because he also wanted to hint at this — that a Torah scholar should also dedicate some time for this, he should converse with her, he should also attend to these matters.

—

“V’lo Yakeil Rosho B’yoser” — Lightheadedness and Vulgar Speech

Lightheadedness — A Balance

The Rambam continues: “V’lo yakeil rosho b’yoser.”

Ah, here we need to go back. Because when one is with his wife, there’s an element of lightness, as it says “Sechok v’kalus rosh margilin es ha’adam l’ervah” — “Laughter and lightheadedness accustom a person to immorality.” A certain level of lightheadedness is needed in order to enter that zone. But one shouldn’t overdo it. A Torah scholar, yes.

“V’lo Yenabel Es Piv B’divrei Hava’i, Afilu Beino L’veinah”

“V’lo yenabel es piv b’divrei hava’i, afilu beino l’veinah.”

Even though it was said that one must be “mesaper imah” — meaning the “mesaper” means conversing, one should also chat with her a bit — but one shouldn’t engage in divrei hava’i (frivolous talk), he shouldn’t talk foolish, silly things. Vulgar speech (nivul peh) is divrei hava’i, even between him and her.

“Even between him and her” means even the vulgar speech is between him and her, even when he’s only speaking about matters between them. He’s talking to her. Vulgar speech means talking about intimate matters. He’s not talking about other people’s intimate matters, he’s talking about theirs, the private situation between them.

Novel Insight: Distinction Between a Torah Scholar and an Ordinary Person — Vulgar Speech Between Spouses is Permitted

A Torah scholar, even to his own wife, speaks with a finer level than an ordinary person.

It’s permitted, it’s permitted, it’s permitted — that’s what I want to bring out. These things are permitted. Here you see clearly a distinction, in this chapter, in this section, you see clearly a distinction between what is demanded of a Torah scholar, and what is appropriate for every person, and what is demanded of a Torah scholar.

This is the halachah — it’s not demanded of another person. For a Torah scholar, they say this is the standard. The same thing — vulgar speech between spouses is permitted for a normal person, perhaps it’s even a mitzvah, it’s part of the habituation process. A Torah scholar, even a Torah scholar is “mesaper imah,” but he makes it a bit more refined, not with divrei hava’i. He has a certain level of refinement.

“Magid L’adam Mah Sicho” — Verse and Exposition

“Harei hu omer b’kabbalah” — kabbalah here means the words of the Prophets.

It says “Magid l’adam mah sicho” — God tells a person what his conversation was…

Speaker 2: Yes, the verse says… It says, do you have that in mind? The verse says “mah sicho.” I think it means… What does it simply mean? When one learns a verse — you’ve learned that Chassidic Jews don’t study Tanach, but I have seen from the righteous ones that when one encounters a verse in the Gemara, one should look it up, and not be completely ignorant.

It’s what Rashi says…

Speaker 1: Ah, so what’s the meaning?

Speaker 2: It’s what Rashi says: “Kol ma’asav portin l’fanav b’sha’as misaso” — “All his deeds are detailed before him at the time of his death.”

Speaker 1: But what does “sicho” mean? His deeds? “Mah sicho”… his thoughts, he says?

Speaker 2: No, that’s not the point. But I think they say “al sicho” — it doesn’t mean from the language of sichah, conversation, it means… what he does.

Speaker 1: But the Gemara expounds, right? “Afilu sichah kalah she’bein ish l’ishto asidin litein aleha es hadin” — “Even light conversation between a man and his wife, one will have to give an accounting for it.”

Novel Insight: “Light Conversation Between a Man and His Wife” Applies Only to a Torah Scholar

And here you see that it holds that this applies only to a Torah scholar, because for an ignoramus… when you’re already up to the light conversation between a man and his wife, you know, he’s already at the end — he still has a long list ahead of him.

Speaker 2: Ah, that means, according to this, it’s a refined matter. It means a little less than what a coarse fellow would do.

Speaker 1: It’s very interesting, because the implication here is that a person needs to be able to keep his head on multiple dimensions, because he needs to be with his wife according to the state of “lie down and produce seed,” as the Rambam says in the previous chapter when he has too much. And then, he needs to keep in mind the conjugal obligation. And he needs to keep in mind the matter of being a Torah scholar. He needs to take everything into consideration.

So there are different levels of… you see it, so you can say different criteria, different things. According to, according to, according to. Workers’ obligations, colleagues, halachah, Choshen Mishpat, Even HaEzer. So there’s abstinence, the whole thing — here we’re already talking about abstinence in the way of Torah scholars.

—

“V’lo Yihyu Shneihem” — State of Mind During Intimacy

The Rambam continues: “V’lo yihyu” — here the Rambam mentions the matter that has to do with character development, what state of mind one should be in.

“V’lo yihyu shneihem” — interestingly, here the command also extends to the wife. The Torah scholar and his wife should not be intoxicated.

“V’lo atzlanim” — one shouldn’t be lazy. It just happened, meanwhile it works out. Not in the right state of mind, something like not…

Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Okay. That means, I think it’s not intentional, that it just happened, I know. But that’s already the “intoxicated” category, yes.

Speaker 1: So here it says “lo atzlanim” and “they should come with desire.” Interesting. So on one hand, he doesn’t have too much rational awareness, but on the other hand, he’s not half-asleep.

Speaker 2: Yes, I said “intoxicated” is from the category of mortal beings, so that’s no rational awareness at all.

Rambam, Laws of Character Traits, Chapter 5 (Continued) — Matters of Intimacy (Conclusion), Modesty in the Bathroom, and Speech of a Torah Scholar

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Halachah 1 (Continued) — Matters of Marital Intimacy: “Not Intoxicated and Not Lazy”

Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Okay. “Intoxicated” means it’s not intentional, it just happened, then he finds himself going along with it. But that’s already the “intoxicated” category. Here it says “v’lo atzlanim” — they should come with desire.

Interesting. On one hand, not too much rational awareness, but on the other hand, not half-asleep. I say, “intoxicated” is from the category of intimacy matters — that’s a serious matter that also appears in Siman 240.

Now the Rambam speaks — we don’t know. In Siman 240, many things are stated that apply to a Torah scholar. The Shulchan Aruch wasn’t so precise about the distinction between a Torah scholar and an ignoramus. The Shulchan Aruch wants everyone to be a Torah scholar.

—

Discussion: “Atzlanim” — Lazy or Sad?

“V’lo atzlanim” means sad, right? In Yiddish, or in Hebrew, atzvus means sad.

Speaker 2: No, in Yiddish it means he’s lazy. In the Holy Tongue (lashon hakodesh), it means sadness, that he’s sorrowful.

Speaker 1: They should be with desire. Yes.

—

“V’lo Sehei Yeshenah… Ela B’ratzon Shneihem U’v’simchasam”

Speaker 1: “V’lo sehei yeshenah” — she shouldn’t be sleeping. “V’lo ya’anus osah v’hi einah rotzah” — he shouldn’t force her when she doesn’t want to. He doesn’t mean specifically actual coercion, he means not with pressure. “Ela b’ratzon shneihem u’v’simchasam” — they should both be willing and happy.

This is the other side of “intoxicated” — all these things about being joyful. “He should converse a little and be playful with her a little so that her mind settles, but the act itself, even if she is happy, should not be with brazenness but with modesty, not with boldness, and he should separate immediately.”

What exactly “he should separate immediately” means, I don’t know precisely — not too much. In short, some kind of limit.

—

“All This, Not Every Person Conducts Himself This Way” — Only for a Wise Person

Speaker 1: All this, the Rambam says, is clearly only referring to a wise person. “Lo kol adam noheg minhag zeh ela mi she’kidesh nafsho v’tiher atzmo v’tikein de’osav.” Not only has he sanctified his soul and purified himself and corrected his character traits, yes — “but it also benefits the children” — it helps to have children who are pleasant and learned. “Pleasant” means simply in body, I suppose, or “learned” in character traits. The conduct of the wise and the pious.

Perhaps this is like the foundation of character traits that one learns, which wasn’t learned here. In Shemonah Perakim (Eight Chapters), this is discussed — that there is a person — the Rambam did say that there is a person who should have an inclination toward good character traits. Perhaps “pleasant” means the child is born with an inclination toward good character traits.

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“The People Who Walk in Darkness” — Sharp Language

Speaker 1: The Rambam also said earlier that one should have relations in order to have a child who is great in Torah and wisdom. Now he’s going to say how one should do it. In general, one who follows the ways of the rest of the people who walk in darkness — who don’t know what they’re doing — their children are like those people. The Rambam was the greatest generalist: you have children just like all other Jews. For a wise person — for the common masses, this chapter isn’t said at all, he does what he does. But a wise person should know that here one must conduct oneself like everyone — his children turn out like everyone else’s.

Very sharp language, “the people who walk in darkness.” Perhaps one could say it means gentiles — it can’t be that it means Jews.

Speaker 2: The Rambam is being charitable — he doesn’t know better.

Speaker 1: Could be. “Walking in darkness” means, yes, people who don’t know, don’t understand better. They are… The Rambam already mentioned earlier, “walking in darkness” means people who don’t understand better, right?

Speaker 2: Like what, perhaps?

Speaker 1: I don’t remember. Okay. “Walking in darkness,” somewhere I remember something from one of the previous chapters. Not relevant.

—

Modesty of Torah Scholars — Covering the Head and Body

Speaker 1: The Rambam continues, “Torah scholars conduct themselves with great modesty.” Now we’re seemingly talking about modesty not specifically during intimacy, but in general. “They should not debase themselves, nor uncover their heads nor their bodies.” They always went with a head covering or something on their head.

Head Covering — From a Custom of Torah Scholars to an Obligation for All of Israel

Speaker 1: I’ve seen in the Shulchan Aruch that an ordinary Jew doesn’t need to wear a head covering, and from below I’ve seen that the Rema rules that everyone must wear a head covering in our times. And the later halachic authorities came with a novel idea: since all Jews wear a head covering, and whoever doesn’t wear one is following gentile customs (chukas hagoy) — it could be that it’s actually a Torah-level obligation (d’Oraisa), not just a custom.

But it could be “they should not uncover their heads” even temporarily — what is a head covering that one generally wears — even at the time of covering the head, you see here that “they should not uncover” means always, even just when going to the bathroom.

—

Modesty in the Bathroom

Speaker 1: This is another topic. “He should be modest and not uncover any limb of his body until he sits down, and he should not wipe with the right hand.”

“Not Wiping with the Right Hand” — Modesty or Practical?

Speaker 1: Should this have to do with modesty? It’s seemingly a matter because one puts tefillin on the right hand, or the right hand is used commonly for many things, and that end needs to be kept clean. It’s a matter — the Rambam says this is a stringency of Torah scholars.

“A Room Within a Room” — Deeper Inside

Speaker 1: “Every person should arrange for himself a room within a room.” There are those who say this means taking a room within a room, or if it’s in a cave, it should be deeper inside the cave — it should be somewhere deeper in. It shouldn’t be right at the door, it should be a bit further inside. “And he should relieve himself there.”

Outdoors — Behind a Fence or in an Open Valley

Speaker 1: “And if he relieves himself behind a fence” — if one is outdoors under the sky, not in a building — “he should distance himself enough that his companion shouldn’t hear his sound if he makes noise” — if he makes a noise while going, he shouldn’t be heard. “And if he relieves himself in an open valley” — if he needs to go out in a flat area, there isn’t even a fence — he must see that it’s a flat area — he should at least be far enough “so that his companion shouldn’t see his exposed area” — his friend shouldn’t see his uncovered parts.

Not Speaking While Relieving Oneself — Even at Night

Speaker 1: The Rambam continues, “He should not speak while relieving himself, even for a great need.” And all these customs he follows even at night when no one sees, it’s dark. “The way of modesty in the bathroom during the day, so he conducts himself at night, even when no one is there” — even when people don’t see because they’re sleeping, it’s still a matter of modesty with oneself.

The Rambam doesn’t say why — it’s a verse about modesty.

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Discussion: Contradiction with Chapter 4 — “Ten Times” in the Bathroom

Speaker 1: It’s hard to understand, because the Lokei’ach Tov said that a Torah scholar should prepare himself so he shouldn’t need to go looking for a place in the middle of the day. But the Rambam said earlier that one needs to go out ten times. Perhaps that’s for a Torah scholar? Perhaps that one is for everyone, and this is for a Torah scholar? A Torah scholar needs to watch his health — a Torah scholar is just a level above that.

But perhaps the one who checks himself, and generally he won’t need to go, because it’s not clear. It’s really a contradiction. Does anyone say something on the side about daytime?

Speaker 2: It looks like a contradiction.

Speaker 1: Let’s see. Perhaps there’s something in the Beis Yosef about this?

Perhaps the word here is specifically — okay, this brings a text, this is a Gemara in Berachos 62, that Rav said. But it could be, it could be that this is the contradiction — the argument is that there he was speaking in terms of health, here he brings a Gemara. But it could be, one can still say, okay, it’s a contradiction, the detail is a contradiction, but one can say that here he means to say: arrange yourself in a way that you know when you need to go to the bathroom.

You can even say this today — there is a bathroom — sometimes there’s someone who didn’t calculate well in the middle of the road. But I’ve seen Jews — they go to the bathroom before eating, after eating, before Maariv, after Maariv.

It still looks to me like a bit of a contradiction, and it needs to be answered. But you understand what I’m saying, that it’s more of a topic of keeping things under control. As much as it’s in his control, he should try to do it at a time when he can distance himself.

Speaker 2: He has a problem, because it’s a matter of danger, so a Torah scholar should have gone with a guard, and he didn’t mention a guard.

Speaker 1: No, not danger, because even the distancing is only in a temporary manner — he goes far in an open valley, that’s not yet a journey. So if you’ve calculated properly, you can ideally go to perhaps a more private place, perhaps behind a fence, perhaps in a cave, even in a cave, whatever the proper way is.

Digression: Modern Bathrooms

Speaker 1: Modern bathrooms — they make the stalls that are open from three sides — perhaps they don’t fulfill all these halachos. One needs to speak with the administrators who make the…

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Halachah 2 (Beginning) — How a Torah Scholar Speaks

Speaker 1: So the Rambam continues — how should a Torah scholar (talmid chacham) speak? The Rambam says: a talmid chacham should not scream and shout.

Fundamental Question: Laws of Proper Conduct — Only for Torah Scholars?

Speaker 1: Wait a minute, by the way, the Rambam hasn’t yet had laws of proper conduct (derech eretz) for ordinary people, right? He had how a Jew should eat. Are there laws of derech eretz for ordinary people somewhere?

Speaker 2: What do you mean, laws of derech eretz?

Speaker 1: For example, the things about not shouting when speaking — does that also apply to ordinary people? Or is it a law specifically for a talmid chacham?

Speaker 2: For ordinary people, there’s nobody to talk to about it.

Speaker 1: He goes on later to enumerate, for example, not speaking lashon hara — that’s a negative commandment at the very least. It does exist; the Rambam goes later into the laws of lashon hara. Maybe yes, this is laws of character traits (hilchos middos). Maybe it’s a good character trait not to shout at another person. But I think what we’re talking about here is things about looking presentable, being…

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Discussion: Ethical or Aesthetic?

Speaker 2: No, I disagree. We’ve already discussed this. I’ll tell you my distinction. These things are genuinely good, but the Rambam doesn’t say it for everyone, because he holds that you can’t demand it from everyone. A normal person is indeed a shouter. A talmid chacham needs to be a better person.

Speaker 1: What I mean to say is that these things aren’t necessarily bad ethically, but they’re bad in the sense of… how do you say it? Not refined. It’s not nice, it’s not… aesthetic. It’s not ethical, but it’s aesthetic. A talmid chacham needs to have a nice… needs to have charm (chen) among people and needs to look presentable.

Speaker 2: No, I disagree. I’ll tell you, I disagree. It is ethical, but where you’re right is that there are levels of ethical. You know, it’s not a sin to shout — it’s a bit unrefined. You know, it’s not refined. And it’s not just about publicity, what you’re saying about shouting going toward kiddush Hashem — there are certain things that you’ll see indeed in the very same things you mentioned about kiddush Hashem.

Speaker 1: I think that all these things that a sharp Chassid, a Kotzker, dismisses about it being nice, about beauty, about sounding good, or more aesthetic — that’s a sharp Chassid’s approach.

Speaker 2: Yes, no, I don’t mean that. To be a person and not speak nicely to people — that’s not an ethical matter?

Speaker 1: We’re not talking here specifically about not speaking nicely to people. Simply, it’s a way of speaking, to have charm (chen), to have taste. What is charm? To speak gently — “and his speech should be gentle with people” (v’diburo b’nachas im ha’briyos).

Speaker 2: A Kotzker Chassid doesn’t speak with deliberation (yishuv hada’as)?

Speaker 1: I don’t know, not sure. He deliberates a great deal, and then he shouts. Okay, but it’s for a purpose. But the Kotzker Rebbe holds that he wants to shout at the Chassidim, but to speak with a person on the street — does he also speak that way? No.

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The Rambam’s Language: “He should not scream and shout… rather his speech should be gentle”

Speaker 1: The Rambam says: “A talmid chacham should not scream and shout when he speaks like cattle and wild animals” — he shouldn’t shout when he speaks like animals — “and he should not raise his voice excessively, rather his speech should be gentle with all people.” In practice, when he speaks, he speaks refinedly. And when he speaks refinedly, “he should be careful not to distance himself…”

Speaker 2: “B’nachas” means… refined is different, more like… calm, steady, with composure, yes.

A Measure of Gentleness — Not Too Professional

Speaker 1: But the Rambam continues that there’s a measure to how much gentleness. If one speaks too professionally, too polished, too well, it comes across as if you’re a great arrogant person.

So he shouldn’t feel so distant, he should feel calm and relaxed in spirit. But one shouldn’t speak like someone who is something special, as if every word is very fancy and chiseled. No, it’s true — it’s comfortable for a person when you speak to him not like a stranger. There’s a certain friendliness, but not too much like a friend — not like two yeshiva students in a dormitory. But not like you’re speaking to the president now — rather a certain refinement. The president, I don’t know, but there are such people.

Rambam, Laws of Character Traits, Chapter 5 (continued) — Matters of Speech for a Torah Scholar: Gentle Speech, Greeting First, Judging Favorably, Not Altering One’s Words, General Principle

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Gentle Speech: The Balance — Not Too Much and Not Too Little (continued)

But the Rambam says further that there’s also a measure to how much gentleness. If one speaks too professionally, too polished, too well, it comes across as if you’re a great arrogant person. “And he should not distance himself to the point that it’s noticeable as arrogance of spirit” — he shouldn’t speak like someone who’s a psychologist, where every word is fancy and chiseled. No, it’s true — it’s bothersome for a person when you speak to him not like a friend.

There’s a certain friendliness, but not too much like a friend. Not like two yeshiva students in the dormitory, but not like you’re speaking to the president — rather there’s a certain refinement.

Practical Illustration — Exaggerated Gentleness

The president, I don’t know, but there are such people who speak… if you live in Lakewood here, it’s easy to find the person who speaks gently in an exaggerated manner, where it screams out from their speaking that “I’m a great rosh yeshiva and I’m also a person of fine character traits too.” Come down, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yes. Do you already have a name, have they started?

Speaker 1: No, I can’t do it, I can’t do it even if I wanted to — I wasn’t born with that. People feel it, people feel someone who has a fake smile, extra over-the-top generosity. “Yes, and maybe I can do you a favor.” You’re not doing any favor, okay?

One needs to be refined with balance. Here too, it’s like the way of Avraham — very good, there’s a certain balance. The balance comes more from wisdom (seichel).

Gentle Doesn’t Always Mean Quiet

That means, one needs to be refined. Sometimes there’s someone, you tell him “speak gently,” and he thinks you have to always speak so quietly and calmly. Sometimes you need to speak normally. You tell him a lot of school to say — don’t shout, don’t be wild, and so on.

—

Greeting Everyone First

He continues: “He greets every person first” (makdim l’shalom kol adam). He greets everyone. “Makdim” — he doesn’t wait for the other person to greet him first, because that’s what’s proper. He has “so that people should be pleased with him” (k’dei she’tehei ruach ha’briyos nocha heimenu) — when people’s spirit, they should be satisfied. People should be satisfied, people should like the talmid chacham.

Very good. “Makdim” is a big power game that people play many times — it’s a big deal: he’s with the greeting for you, he waits for you to say shalom to him. People — and shalom simply, of course, he still has his respect, it doesn’t yet mean he’s your friend — but he can greet you.

The Middle Path Here Too — Don’t Chase a Snob

For withdrawn people — if you need to remember many times that the other person might be lost, that you who have a bit of an important personality, he has a certain fear. If the other person is in trouble, the apartment isn’t coming through — now you really need to guard your respect and not go to him. What you always need to think is that it could be that the other person is simply a bit lost, meaning you need to draw him close.

But we’re not talking about the lost ones — no, I’m saying, seemingly here too there’s a middle path. If someone is a snob to a talmid chacham, the talmid chacham doesn’t need to chase after him. He doesn’t need to wait forever for the other person to live long years.

—

Judging Everyone Favorably

“And he judges every person favorably” (v’hadan es kol ha’adam l’chaf zechus). Specifically the Sefer Borei Pri Eitz Chaim who didn’t already have this — yes, they had it both in character traits and commandments, and also I mean earlier regarding the talmid chacham for honor. “And he judges every person favorably” — a talmid chacham must judge every person favorably. He must always think well of a person.

Discussion: What Does “Judge” Mean — Thinking or Actually Judging?

Speaker 2: “Judge” — I don’t think he’s talking about thinking. Seemingly when he talks about people, he’s the one who judges favorably, because “judge” doesn’t come in here — he’s not talking about speech.

Speaker 1: Look further: “And he speaks in praise of his fellow, and he sees his afflictions, and he loves peace.” So I tell of my fellow’s praise, “and he sees his afflictions and loves peace and pursues peace” — one must pursue peace.

Novel Idea: Perhaps Only a Torah Scholar Must Judge Favorably

Speaker 2: I think it could be that only a talmid chacham must judge favorably, because an ordinary person doesn’t need to judge at all. Who’s been asked to judge? A talmid chacham is the judge (dayan) — people ask him advice about marriage matches (shidduchim), people ask him to be someone’s friend. He’s the judge — so he should judge favorably.

Speaker 1: Yes, could be. Also, what you’re saying — an ordinary person doesn’t have that level of seriousness, not such influence in what he does. Someone who has a bit of respect, it has weight. Right. He needs to think much more, because what you say has a great influence, because people go and reconsider it. It’s true — when someone goes in to a great person (adam gadol), he goes afterward and records precisely what he told him. There’s much more responsibility for an important person to think about what he says.

Speaker 2: It could be not just about the responsibility, but also to think that it’s a topic. Many times we are so critical of people, saying criticism — it doesn’t register that it could still be that someone takes the criticism seriously. Because you’re so sure that it’s all irrelevant, so you say criticism. Someone who grasps that his criticism makes a difference, suddenly he starts judging a bit more favorably.

Speaker 1: So if someone once heard me when I went after someone — everyone should know that it comes from the humility of R’ Salish. It’s also meant that way. It’s really not from humility, from lowliness. It comes from not sufficiently internalizing that my words carry weight.

Speaker 2: Ah, it says that sometimes you need to shout at someone when it’s warranted, just as they learned…

Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

—

“The Words of the Wise Are Heard When Spoken Gently” — He Watches His Words

Here actually — “The words of the wise are heard when spoken gently” (divrei chachamim b’nachas nishma’im). The talmid chacham sees that his words are listened to. If he feels in his mind that he needs to do something, he says it. But if not, he’s silent. He watches his words also for the same reason — so that his words shouldn’t become cheap. If he puts out a public proclamation (kol korei) that nobody reads, he’s lost his proclamation in the swamps.

—

The Rambam’s Method: Compiling Mishnayos from Avos

How so? Says the Rambam. And the Rambam incorporates many of the things that are mishnayos in Tractate Avos — “Judge every person favorably” (dan es kol ha’adam l’chaf zechus), “Be of humble spirit” (hevei shfal ruach) — all these things are mishnayos in Avos. But the Rambam creates, as is his way, a very beautiful order of things. He connects things, a verse in Proverbs (Mishlei) — the Rambam puts it together in a way that makes it into a story. The Rambam took what he held that he wanted to glean in his order, and compiled it.

The things he goes through here — they’re found in Avos, but under the heading that it has to do with “the words of the wise.”

—

Don’t Appease Your Fellow When He’s Angry, Don’t Ask About His Vow, Don’t Console Him When His Dead Lies Before Him

“Don’t appease your fellow when he’s angry” (lo yeratze chaveiro b’sha’as ka’aso) — the clear meaning is that he doesn’t speak words of appeasement to him when he’s angry, because at that time it won’t help.

“And don’t ask him about his vow at the time of his vow” (v’lo yish’al lo al nidro b’sha’as nidro) — when he makes a vow, he’s agitated right now, he made a vow for a reason. You’re going to try to… Just wait until he calms down, and then you can.

The same thing — “and don’t console him when his dead lies before him” (v’lo yenachamo b’sha’ah she’meiso mutal lefanav) — because right now he’s too deep in grief and he doesn’t want to hear any consolation. He can’t yet turn the page and now think about the future. But after the burial, then is the time to console.

“And similarly all such matters” (v’chen kol kayotzei ba’eilu) — think about what you say, so it should come at the right time. This is an important thing — there’s a certain sense of knowing when to say what, and to avoid frustration and distress.

When He’s Angry — Even When He’s Angry at You

The “when he’s angry” means even when he’s angry at you. Sometimes a person comes and he’s angry at you. I’ve seen, I speak with people who are angry at people. The talmid chacham who has wisdom, he knows — even if I come to argue against him or against his friend, his neighbor — he listens, he knows that he also has plenty to answer many times. It doesn’t mean that we’re always right.

He listens and he says “yes, okay,” he accepts it. It’s hard for people to bear that someone is angry at them — “I need to defend myself!” You don’t need to. He’s angry, you can’t right now be confrontational. Another day.

—

Don’t Look at Your Fellow in His Moment of Disgrace

After that, there’s another very beautiful practice, the next line. What does he say further? “And don’t look at your fellow in his moment of disgrace” (v’lo yir’eh chaveiro b’sha’as kilkulo) — he shouldn’t, when he catches his fellow in his moment of disgrace, his fellow has just been caught speaking, as they say, red-handed — he caught him doing a sin — don’t show that you saw him. “He should avert his eyes from him” (ya’alim einav mimenu) — he should look away from him.

In Education — A Very Powerful Thing

This is a tremendous truth, and I think in education (chinuch) it’s a very powerful thing, because your child sees that you already know, so he no longer has any reason to hide it. He loses his self-respect, and he no longer tries to even impress, because he knows that you know.

Practical Implication — When the Teacher Calls

So even if the teacher called you that your boy isn’t doing so well — if you don’t have some plan of what to do about it, there’s nothing to gain from telling him “your teacher told me you’re not learning,” because nothing will come of it. On the contrary — tell him “you’re learning, learn better.” Indeed, yes.

And also, it’s simply embarrassing a person. Fine, can you help with something? It doesn’t help you, he already knows. He’s already doing it because he already has some issue. It’s not a person without a solution.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Another Reason — He’s Already Embarrassed Enough

Speaker 2: Well, it’s also true for another reason, because when the other person sees that you saw, he doesn’t need any mussar at all right now. He’s already embarrassed enough. He needs mussar when he thinks nobody sees and he still has the…

Speaker 1: Yes.

—

He Doesn’t Alter His Words — He Doesn’t Add and Doesn’t Subtract

Okay, and further. “And he doesn’t alter his words” (v’lo yeshaneh b’diburo) — he shouldn’t change from what he says. “In his words” presumably doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t follow something he says. I think it means he shouldn’t twist someone’s mind, he shouldn’t exaggerate. As he says further: “And he doesn’t add and doesn’t subtract” (v’lo yosif v’lo yigra). He notes it like the Gemara says that “It is a time to act for Hashem, they have violated Your Torah” (eis la’asos la’Hashem heiferu Torasecha) — one may only change in certain cases.

The meaning is, he should say things as they are, truthfully. He shouldn’t deviate from the truth. “And he doesn’t add and doesn’t subtract” — he shouldn’t speak exaggerations, he shouldn’t add or take away.

“Except in matters of peace and the like” (ela b’divrei shalom v’kayotzei bahen) — if one needs to speak words of peace, just as he said earlier “loves peace and pursues peace,” then one may indeed add and subtract, just as the Gemara says that “It is a time to act for Hashem, they have violated Your Torah” — one may change.

The Midrash of Aharon HaKohen — Lover of Peace and Pursuer of Peace

I mean, the Rambam perhaps brings — he was thinking of the Midrash that Aharon HaKohen, the way he was a lover of peace and pursuer of peace, was that he would go to the wife and say “You should know that your husband wants so badly to make peace,” even though he didn’t want to. And say the reverse. And this is how he brought peace.

And seemingly Aharon also didn’t tell lies. Aharon knew that a person is simply conflicted — he wants to make peace with the other person, he doesn’t know that he wants to, because he has a bunch of feelings, but somewhere within him there’s also a force that wants to make peace with you. There’s always such a thing.

A Normal Person Always Adds or Subtracts

But you see that a normal person when he speaks — there’s the point that one speaks only truth all the time. A normal person when he speaks always either adds or subtracts — he makes it more than reality, he’s always clever. In general, he speaks very well.

But a Torah scholar (talmid chacham) may not tell stories: “I was outside, there was such a car accident, 24 cars.” It was three cars! You don’t need to be the one who is a newspaper writer — he always exaggerates or diminishes, you understand?

A Torah scholar may not tell news at all. Here we’re probably talking about when he does speak about something that is relevant, or as it says here for example, when it comes to an important matter, for the sake of peaceful ways (mipnei darkei shalom), then one may use it. But one may not be a marketer — a Torah scholar may not speak like a salesperson.

—

The general rule: A person should speak only about acts of kindness or words of wisdom

The general rule is: a person should speak only about acts of kindness (gemilut chasadim) or words of wisdom (divrei chochma) and the like. A Torah scholar may only speak about something that is gemilut chasadim — it could be that under gemilut chasadim he also engages in conversation, it could be that he wants to strengthen a person, so he’ll chat with him even about trivial matters (devarim shel mah b’kach). But still, one needs to help a fellow Jew, one needs to share information for matchmaking (shidduchim) and the like.

Yes. Or words of wisdom — to share wisdom with other people, to make Jews wise. These and the like.

Why does the Rambam say “wisdom” and not “Torah”?

It’s very interesting — the Rambam holds by wisdom (chochma), he almost never says “Torah.” It’s remarkable — does that mean wisdom is worth more than Torah?

The Rambam says explicitly in other places: because Torah is obviously not merely a permitted matter (dvar hareshut) — Torah is already a commandment to study. He’s speaking here about permitted matters. But certainly he also means Torah — it’s not that he doesn’t mean it. He can mean including Torah as well. But the point is, many things that are not a commandment to speak about — if it’s gemilut chasadim, or words of wisdom.

It could be that Tzulas holds that politics is words of wisdom — he has great expertise in that, I know.

A story with R’ Daniel Frish — “Love your neighbor as yourself” in speech

The story is well known about R’ Yankele, that R’ Daniel Frish came to visit him. And R’ Daniel Frish was a great zealot, he didn’t know who this was — R’ Yitzchak’l was still alive at the time. And he saw some elderly Jew with a beautiful white beard, walking around and chatting with people before davening. And it upset him so much, so he said to him — well, you know — “The Rebbe R’ Mendele said that every word one speaks before davening blocks the concentration of prayer (kavvanat hatefillah).”

So he said to him: “I said a pure acceptance of the yoke of mitzvot — I said ‘I hereby accept upon myself the positive commandment of love your neighbor as yourself (hareini mekabel alai mitzvat aseh shel v’ahavta l’rei’acha kamocha).’ But all commandments have dimensions of thought, speech, and action. You fulfilled it in speech by saying it, or with intention, meaning in thought you said it. But what about in speech?”

He says, that Jew — I don’t know who that Jew was — on the way to shul he had already looked at the wonderful parsha—

Rambam, Laws of Character Traits, Chapter 5 (continued) — Acts of kindness through speech, “He should not converse with a woman in the marketplace,” the walk of a Torah scholar, and the clothing of a Torah scholar

—

Speech: Acts of kindness through talking “nonsense”

A story with R’ Yankele — the “speech” of “Love your neighbor as yourself”

So he said to him… The Rebbe R’ Mendele said that every word one speaks before davening blocks the concentration of prayer. So he said to him: You said “I hereby accept upon myself the positive commandment of love your neighbor as yourself” — but all commandments have dimensions of thought, speech, and action. This was never in speech. By saying it or with intention, meaning in thought you said it — but what about in speech?

He says: A Jew, I know that this Jew on the way to shul had already looked at the newspaper headlines. He knows how much it hurts a person when he has no one to tell his news to, and all those things. R’ Yankele was an expert in this — he used to ask, he knew that a young man was interested in sports, so he would ask him: “Nu, what was there recently, some interesting game? Who won?” Because that’s what it means to speak gemilut chasadim, which the Rambam says that for gemilut chasadim one may even speak nonsense.

A fine point: Words of wisdom through nonsense

He doesn’t say that, but it’s a very good inference. Yes, he says even that this was regarding gemilut chasadim, but words of wisdom are permitted. It can even be that words of wisdom are also clever — as a parable. You want to bring out a point of wisdom, the parable can be from nonsense, because the purpose is to make the other person wise.

The Baal Shem Tov said that one can perform spiritual unifications (yichudim) even when speaking nonsensical words. That’s already the other paths. If it can bring joy, R’ Nachman said. But yes, good.

—

“He should not converse with a woman in the marketplace”

The matter of suspicion and appearance

I want to mention another interesting law. The Rambam holds “He should not converse with a woman in the marketplace.” Here we’re talking about a matter of suspicion, that a Torah scholar should see to it that no one has any suspicion about him. Appearance (marit ayin) — one should not speak with any woman in the marketplace, even his wife or his sister or his daughter, even a woman with whom one is permitted to speak. Even a woman with whom one is permitted to speak, one should not speak with in the marketplace, because someone passing by has no way of knowing that she is his wife. It looks like an ordinary person.

Here there is an obligation — who asks you to suspect a Torah scholar? Suspecting a Torah scholar is a matter of desecration of God’s name (chillul Hashem).

Discussion: What does “in the marketplace” mean?

It could be that this also applies in a place where it’s known — if it’s clear to everyone that this is his wife, he’s going to a celebration and it’s accepted that one goes with one’s wife to the celebration, seemingly that would indeed be different.

Speaker 2: In the marketplace… “in the marketplace” always means like in the market. “Deal, business transactions.” In the market. Market.

Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. Only when he’s in a solitary place, he’s doing business. That’s not so simple. How should I speak to Shmuel?

A Torah scholar and business dealings

The Rambam says that a Torah scholar may also conduct business, must conduct business, and if he doesn’t want to, he wants to support himself from learning, but he must maintain his respect.

—

The walk of a Torah scholar — “He should not walk with an erect posture and outstretched neck”

Transition from speech to walking

The Rambam continues: “A Torah scholar should not walk with an erect posture and outstretched neck.” Until now we’ve been discussing speech. The Rambam had a list of ten, fifteen things that are different — food and drink. Now we move to his walking, how he walks. Very interesting. There is a way of walking for a Torah scholar.

Discussion: Aesthetics or humility?

Speaker 2: You must agree that this is a matter of aesthetics?

Speaker 1: No. This is a matter of humility. Respect.

Speaker 2: No, he’s going to learn.

Speaker 1: Here in this matter it’s aesthetic, but to conduct oneself aesthetically — if one is going to learn now, not to go dirty — that itself is a matter of ethics (mussar). It’s not just because people… If people don’t see, one still needs to conduct oneself aesthetically. That’s what I want to bring out.

A story from Yeshivat Chevron — respect even in the middle of the night

I know, I saw that there was a yeshiva in Chevron, and they held very strongly to this path, that a Torah scholar must walk nicely. And in the middle of the night he would get up and say the blessing of asher yatzar — he would put on his jacket. He didn’t sleep in his jacket, he put on his jacket, and he said asher yatzar. He didn’t go naked or in pajamas. It’s respect. It’s a matter of honor before the Almighty when one says a blessing.

Speaker 2: Okay. Yes, I’m not talking only about arrogance.

Speaker 1: Yes.

“Erect posture and outstretched neck” — arrogance, not just immodesty

The Rambam says: “A Torah scholar should not walk with an erect posture and outstretched neck” — a Torah scholar should not walk in an elevated manner with an arrogant walk. He doesn’t mean this only for a Torah scholar. An ordinary Jew — that’s simply a fool, the arrogant one. What do you need to walk with a raised head for? But this is a refinement that is not demanded as much from everyone, only from a Torah scholar.

Also because people watch a Torah scholar. An ordinary person, nobody is going to notice whether you walk with your head this way or that way. But a Torah scholar, people look at with a magnifying glass.

Speaker 2: Some things, that’s all the time. I mean, some things are like that, some things are… In general, the fact that people look, also what do they look at? The person looks to see if you’re crazy, he has expectations. What kind of self-respect, whether he walks with humanity, or he walks like a cripple.

Speaker 1: I don’t know what “outstretched neck” means exactly, but it’s someone who walks around with such a… sticks out his belly toward the…

Speaker 2: Yes. Something like that sort. We would say someone who sticks out his belly.

The verse “They walked with outstretched necks” — arrogance, not just immodesty

“As it is stated: ‘They walked with outstretched necks and ogling eyes'” — simply, the Rambam means here a matter of modesty (tzniut), no? Women who walk. That’s what today’s mashgichim say. But it appears that the Rambam interprets it differently — that this is a matter of arrogance.

In general, modesty is not only a great virtue — modesty is a powerful path to becoming humble. Generally in this verse it doesn’t necessarily mean arrogance, and not necessarily immodesty.

Speaker 2: Yes.

“Gently like women” — too slowly

And let’s see the next piece: “He should not walk with an erect posture” — not walk with an arrogant gait, “gently like women” — walk very, very quietly like women. Women may walk that way, or women conduct themselves that way.

I once saw a play, when children make a play and they want to act out the nobleman who walks like that… Okay, “with an erect posture” — it’s such a dancing swagger. “As it is stated: ‘Walking and mincing'” — that’s the same verse — “walking and mincing they go, and with their feet they make a tinkling.” Someone who walks with an arrogant swagger.

Very good. I saw in the newspapers, one of those foolish things that I read, that in England, Victorian England, they were very into this sort of arrogance — there were courses for people on how to walk. That one should not do.

“Running in the public domain like a madman” — the middle path

Okay, on the other hand, the middle path. But also not the other extreme of… Imagine that it’s possible, as we learned, that an example of a person who is rich and has everything, he has enough time, is “lounging” — people who go strolling all day, they wander around town, they don’t need to work, they collect rent once a month. So that’s the arrogance. A person who works, runs, always has things to take care of — so that’s probably one of humility.

Okay, “and all this on the other hand” — and the arrogance that we say, the exaggerated humility, and running “in the public domain like a madman” — a degradation, just running in the public domain like an idler.

Speaker 2: No, no, but “like a madman” means crazy, not running. Not a jogger.

“He should not bend his stature like a hunchback” — exaggerated humility

Next, the next piece is about exaggerated humility: “He should not bend his stature like a hunchback” — he should not walk bent over like someone… a hunchback means someone who has a hump. Rather, “he should look downward as one who stands in prayer” — he should walk upright, but his eyes should look down.

And “looking downward” — he’s not speaking here about guarding one’s eyes (shmirat einayim), but rather as a matter of humility. Not looking people directly in the face or anything. He doesn’t mean looking down on anyone, he means looking downward — not “haughty eyes,” automatically looking upward. He’s trying to bring out the middle path.

Discussion: “Walking with composure” — what does it mean?

“Walking with composure (b’shuvah)” — straight. “Shuvah” — the intention is the approach that the verse states here. What does he mean to say here? He means to say this: that there is a person who walks in the street, and you can see that he has nothing to do with his time. He walks, he looks… There is someone where you walk, you see that he has something to do with his life. He walks — there is a manner of walking where you can see that he is a busy person.

Speaker 2: Not necessarily busy, here he’s already… I think that this is still fulfilling a commandment, because the one who runs in madness is a servant who goes trembling, he must run to his master. And from poverty, a poor person, he must work hard all the time…

Speaker 1: No, no, I think the running is simply madness, it’s some young man who runs around, he wants to run, a young man from the guard. I told him twice, I told him that he’s older.

And there are the two sides that certainly exist — the priests are zealous, like that, and there is the opposite where he walks like that, all the time like that. And there is normal.

Discussion: Guarding one’s eyes or “afflictions of the pious”?

And I asked him: Someone who does this as guarding one’s eyes, is he not working on that? Because he has a reason why he does this. He’s working on another Mishnah in Tractate Sotah, which is called from the destroyers of the world — afflictions of the pious (makkot perushim), a pious person who bangs his head into the wall. Unless he walks in a place where he has noticed in a place where it’s not… There is no Gemara anywhere that says one should walk like a pious person — it’s called “makat zavlei zarim” in Tractate Sotah.

“A person’s walk is recognizable” — body language

And to continue — the Gemara: “A person’s walk is recognizable” — he brings out on this topic, that the way a person walks, it is recognizable whether he is wise and a person of understanding. There is such a thing called “body language” — this is body language. The way a person walks, you can see whether he is a person of understanding or he is a fool and simpleton.

And so Solomon indeed says: “And also on the road, when the fool walks” — the way a fool walks — “his heart is lacking, and he tells everyone he is a fool.” The way he walks, he publicizes that he is a fool.

Speaker 2: No, I didn’t interpret, I didn’t interpret that verse. I said that the Rambam interpreted it that way.

Speaker 1: I said that the Rambam interpreted it that way, I said it plainly. All the commentators say this, but the Rambam says that “on the road when the fool walks” is a different manner of walking that shows everyone that he is a fool. You understand? A fool doesn’t tell everyone, you understand?

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: One says he’s a fool, one says he’s wise. But everyone sees from the way he walks whether he’s wise or a fool — because he walks like a sack, he’s clumsy, he walks either too high or too low.

—

The clothing of a Torah scholar

“Holy garments for Aaron, for honor and for splendor” — clothing has a great influence

And this is the way a Torah scholar must be dressed. And we see it in this week’s parsha — “Holy garments for Aaron, for honor and for splendor.” Clothing has a very great influence, the medium is very important, the way he presents himself.

“Beautiful and clean clothing” — nice and clean

The clothing of a Torah scholar must be beautiful and clean (malbush na’eh v’naki) — nice and clean. And it is forbidden that there be found on his garment a stain or grease and the like — there must not be found on his garment… a stain and grease are not the same thing — one type of stain, two types of stains. Grease (shamnunit) means oil or some kind of fat. And a stain (ketem) is like a blood stain? Usually, as it says there in Niddah. I don’t know.

In any case, it should not be dirty, very simple, it should not be smeared.

The middle path in clothing — not kings, not paupers

And here he further sees that this is the proper path: “He should not wear the clothing of kings, such as garments of gold and purple upon which everyone stares” — he should not seek to attract attention — “nor the clothing of the poor which degrades the wearer, but rather average, nice garments.” It should be decent, it should be dignified, moderate.

Discussion: Rebbes with golden clothing — a different category

The Rebbes who wore golden clothing — that is perhaps a different matter, like the priests. It’s not an ordinary Torah scholar. One must know, huge tulips — perhaps that is not the proper path. Or perhaps that is the proper path for Rebbes. Once he has the title of Rebbe, he must look at how normal Rebbes dress, and that is his proper path. The Rambam admits that a king wears royal garments. We’re talking about a normal Torah scholar who doesn’t have a position of royalty.

“The light linen garments made in Egypt” — see-through clothing

“He should not wrap himself in his cloak” — rather he should be well dressed, not very thin garments through which one can see him. “He should not wrap himself in his cloak like the very light linen garments made in Egypt” — there in Africa it’s very hot, so they had very thin garments through which one could see the body, and that is not the way a Torah scholar dresses.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the simple meaning is that it’s literally see-through. You see, you can literally see the shape of the body. It’s very thin, and you can see through the body. You can see a bit.

Speaker 1: But not a great loss and dragging from the other side —

Rambam, Hilchos De’os Chapter 5 (continued) — Clothing of a Torah Scholar, Fragrances, Financial Conduct, Order of Things in Life

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Halacha 2 (continued) — Clothing of a Torah Scholar: Further Details

Thin Garments — Translucent

There in Africa it’s very hot, certain people had very thin garments through which you could see the body, and that’s not — you can see the body, it’s… yes, it’s a bit… what is literally see-through, that you can see the shape of the body. It’s very thin, and you see the body. Translucent. You can see a bit.

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“His garments should not be dragging and long” — Not Too Long, Not Too Short

“His garments should not be dragging” — on the other hand, he also shouldn’t have “his garments dragging and long,” very long gowns, “like the arrogant ones” go dressed, like the king of England once upon a time. Rather what? “Rather, until his heel” — the garment should go until his heel.

Discussion: What Does “Heel” Mean?

Speaker 1: The heel is the knee?

Speaker 2: The feet. It’s quite long.

Speaker 1: Yes, it’s quite long. It’s quite long.

Speaker 2: Yes, it’s quite long.

Speaker 1: No, no, he’s telling you here in a context.

[Insight] One cannot dress today like the Rambam describes. One would have to try to understand the mindset of the Rambam. There are indeed such Jews who specifically wear very long bekitches — meaning, that is today’s equivalent of “dragging, long garments.” One needs to dress the way the public dresses.

It could be, though, that this is a matter of modesty, which is indeed a basic thing.

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“His hands should extend from his sleeves to the tips of his fingers” — Sleeves Until the Fingers

“His hands should extend from his sleeves to the tips of his fingers” — longer than today’s jackets.

Speaker 2: No, not just until here.

Speaker 1: And it seems that the longer ones were even longer, they would extend out to who knows where.

[Insight] It’s not just incidental — for example, times when one washes hands, ideally one only washes until the tips of the fingers — we see that ideally one had… otherwise one would need to roll up the garment.

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“His garment should not hang loosely” — Not Hanging Clothes

“His garment should not hang loosely” — he shouldn’t go around… hanging loosely means dangling, another type of hanging style, like the Ishmaelites, yes? Also. “Rather, it should appear like that of distinguished people.”

And the Rambam does say one should dress elegantly, but not make a big fuss with too many things.

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Halacha 2 (continued) — Shoes and Garments: Not Torn

“He should not walk in patched shoes or in a torn garment”

The Rambam continues, “He should not walk in patched shoes, nor in a torn garment.” He shouldn’t wear — there were shoes that were made from rags on the feet, instead of normal shoes one could wrap them around. Poor people did this. On the shoes they would place such patches.

Discussion: What Are “Patched Shoes”?

Speaker 2: Or on the shoes? Or are they shoes?

Speaker 1: Yes, yes, patched shoes, a hanging garment. So his shoes are shoes that one ties merchandise onto.

“But it is permitted to go out in them in summer because of the cold”

“But it is permitted to go out in them in summer because of the cold” — when it’s cold it’s permitted, because then he does it because they serve as boots for him. Instead of his boots he has this, because he doesn’t have boots.

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Halacha 2 (continued) — Fragrances and Suspicion

“He should not go out perfumed to the marketplace” — Three Types of Fragrance

The Rambam continues, “He should not go out perfumed to the marketplace” — he shouldn’t go out smelling fragrant, he shouldn’t put on perfume. “Nor in perfumed garments” — he shouldn’t wear clothing that has a scent. “Nor should he perfume his hair” — he shouldn’t use fragrant shampoo.

“But if he anointed his flesh with fragrance to remove bad odor, it is permitted”

“But if he anointed” — this is because it’s not fitting, because it’s an opening to impropriety. But he goes on to explain the opening to impropriety. “But if he anointed his flesh with fragrance to remove bad odor, it is permitted.”

[Insight — Practical Application] The Rebbe asked: Someone who goes to the mikveh once a week, and he has very strong perspiration — he says, he puts on a bit of perfume, not so that one should smell good, but to neutralize the bad odor. In that case it’s permitted, because then it’s not for beautification, it’s not for beautification. Very good.

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“He should not go out alone at night” — Not Alone at Night

The Rambam says, “He should not go out alone at night” — he shouldn’t go out alone at night. Why? “Unless he has a set place to go to for his Torah study” — only if he knows he’s going now to learn, one sees that he has a set schedule.

“All these are because of suspicion”

“All these” — “all these” presumably refers back to the fragrance and to going out alone at night, yes? — “because of suspicion.” Because when a person douses himself with fragrances, it has to do with suspicion that he’s going out to commit sins.

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Halacha 3 — A Torah Scholar Manages His Affairs with Judgment: Financial Conduct

Okay, now we’re going to learn how a Torah scholar uses his money and the like.

Budgeting According to One’s Means

A Torah scholar manages his affairs with judgment. He budgets his things very well. He has everything precisely in order how he does things, he does everything with calculation. He eats and drinks and feeds his household according to his means and wealth, and does not burden himself excessively.

What does “and does not burden himself excessively” mean? He doesn’t spend more than he has. That’s what it means. He doesn’t act like someone who holds that he needs to provide grand feasts for his wife, more than he can afford. He doesn’t. Because that is a burden upon himself — he’ll need to work more, earn more, borrow, and so on.

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Eating Meat — “A person should not eat meat except with appetite”

The Sages commanded as a matter of proper conduct that a person should not eat meat except with appetite. Meat should only be eaten when one has a great appetite for it, when it’s very important. As the verse states, “When your soul desires to eat meat.” That meat is not something… bread one eats because one needs to eat, because one is hungry. Meat is something that occasionally a great appetite strikes, so then one eats meat. Or the appetite strikes more in the sense that one eats it as a pleasure, as something for a special occasion, as he’s going to say — Shabbos, something special.

It is sufficient for a healthy person to eat from one Erev Shabbos to the next Erev Shabbos. It’s enough for such a person to eat meat every week. And if he is wealthy enough to eat meat every day, he may eat. If he’s wealthy enough to eat meat every day, he may eat.

Meat in Earlier Times — No Freezers

In earlier times one needed to be wealthy to eat meat, because there were no freezers. Eating meat meant slaughtering a cow today, or slaughtering a chicken today. As we learned yesterday in the earlier chapters, that meat which is more than… old meat is not good. And I think because of this there was also the custom that when one had a larger feast it was for a group, because you can’t eat up an entire animal or an entire chicken by yourself. So a meal that was more than just bread was eaten together by a group, or a large family.

Discussion: What Is the Standard Today?

Speaker 2: We’re not really talking about it that way.

Speaker 1: Yes, it’s still something — meat, something that sits in the freezer, that one doesn’t have all other foods.

So what is the standard, the halacha? I don’t know, the main thing is that one shouldn’t buy the whole week what one buys for Shabbos. One should only have some special meat, you know, tongue one shouldn’t eat except occasionally, you know, whatever.

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Chovos HaLevavos — Food, Clothing, Wife and Children

So as a stringency, he brings such a beautiful statement from the Chovos HaLevavos. The Chovos HaLevavos says as follows: “A person should always eat less than what is fitting for him according to his means” — a person should buy food a bit less than what he can afford. “And dress as is fitting for him” — clothing he should wear according to what he can afford. “And honor his wife and children more than what is fitting for him” — for his children and his wife’s children he should spend more than he can afford. “Fitting for him” means, I think, that he should borrow money, he should exert himself a bit extra.

Discussion: How Does This Fit with the Rambam Regarding Clothing?

It’s the Rambam who earlier said that a Torah scholar specifically wears refined garments, as if it has nothing to do with how much money he has. Here for example, if he has money, he should buy nice things. It could be that this fits for him, as if the Torah scholar belongs to the higher middle class, whatever it is, he may dress a bit nicer.

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“Honor her more than himself” — Practical Application

Yes, it’s true that everyone, when one goes to learn in Seder Nashim — yes, there is a concept where one speaks about according to one’s means. A person is obligated to support his household according to the situation. If he is a householder, he is obligated to buy in a householder’s manner, as is written in the engagement conditions: “according to the custom of distinguished householders of the city.” There is such a situation.

Here, this is also what I think it means when it says regarding your wife “honor her more than himself,” yes? It means that a person should for his wife — that his wife basically, “honor” means with clothing apparently, a dignified portion. A person should buy simply for himself, for her he should buy nice clothing. You know also, possessions are a form of honor, clothing is directly a matter of honor. Nowadays a car — or if she can only have one nice car, you should buy it for your wife, so it says in the Torah.

Story with the Spinka Rebbe — Spend on the Kitchen

Okay, the public doesn’t conduct themselves this way. Maybe they do, I don’t know. But there’s a wonderful story: A Jew told me that he went, before he renovated his house, he went to ask the Spinka Rebbe, Reb Hershele. He told him: Spend on the kitchen where your wife spends her time, more than what you spend on your seforim room and on your own room. And it also makes sense — she is at home more, much more time usually. Like a person who works a whole day.

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Halacha 3 (continued) — Order of Things in Life: First Livelihood, Then a House, Then Marriage

The Way of Sensible People — The Proper Order

Okay. He brings in another thing that sensible people do. He says here a Rambam, “the way of sensible people.” The way that sensible people conduct themselves is:

“A person should first establish for himself a trade that provides him livelihood” — the first thing one should take care of — not worry, one should acquire. Worrying doesn’t help. One should acquire, establish for oneself a trade that brings livelihood. And a craft, a job, that has a career of its own.

“And afterward he should purchase a dwelling” — and after that he should buy a home.

“And afterward he should marry a wife” — and after that he can acquire a wife, get married.

“As it is stated” — this is the verse: “Who is the man who has planted a vineyard and not yet redeemed it” — it says that a vineyard is a livelihood. After that, “who has built a new house and not yet dedicated it” — because after one has a vineyard one can buy a house. And after that, “who has betrothed a woman and not yet taken her.”

There is indeed a discussion about this, yes, because there are two places in the Torah, one place the house appears before the vineyard it seems… I don’t know, one just learns the details.

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“But the Foolish” — The Reversed Order

“But the foolish,” but foolish people go differently. “First he marries a wife” — first he gets married. “And afterward, if he can afford it, he buys a house” — and after that, if he has a bit of money, he buys a house. “And afterward, at the end of his days, he seeks a trade or supports himself from charity” — and after that, at the end of his days, when he’s older and he’s taken care of the wife, he already has children, and he already has a house, then he starts looking for a trade, or he supports himself from charity.

This is the crooked way. Because the simple meaning is, now when you already have a wife, you already have a huge budget, and you need to work very hard — it’s not wise.

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“And so it says in the curses” — The Reversed Order Is a Curse

“And so it says in the curses” — and this is a curse, so it says in the curses: “You shall betroth a woman” — first he gets married, and he finds himself with children who are hard to support. And after that, “you shall build a house.” And after that, “you shall plant a vineyard.”

“That is to say, your deeds will be reversed so that your ways will not succeed.” This is the curse.

[Insight] The curse is that a person is a fool. We see that the greatest curse is that a person is a fool, and when he’s a fool he always does things backwards. One can also see, because this causes the problems. Just as we see today that people who do this, at the end of the day he’s always behind, because he never has enough money. By the time he’s found a job, he’s already two years in debt, because he got married and had children and bought a house.

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“And David was successful in all his ways” — King David Understood Priorities

He says, that is to say, your deeds will be reversed so that your ways will not succeed. “But regarding blessing, what does it say?” What does it say, however, regarding blessing? “And David was successful in all his ways” — David was wise, he understood the order of things. The priorities of what to do first. How the Almighty stands — first he goes to do his efforts that need to be done, he received success.

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Reminder: Chasam Sofer

Very good. There is something about this from the Chasam Sofer, about first taking a career and afterward… I don’t remember.

Speaker 2: Ah, that’s what you wanted to say, the Chasam Sofer about first taking a career and afterward… yes.

Speaker 1: So what? I don’t remember.

Rambam, Hilchos De’os Chapter 5 (continued) — Financial Matters, Honest Business Dealings, Pursuer and Pursued, and Conclusion of Chapter 5

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“It is forbidden for a person to abandon or consecrate all his possessions” — Careful Financial Conduct

Speaker 1: But the blessing from this day. What does it say, however, regarding blessing? Like Yehudah who was wise, he understood the order of things, the priorities of what to do first, and Hashem was with him, first of all he goes to do the plowing and planting, he goes to do his efforts that he needs to do, and he received success.

Discussion: The Chasam Sofer Regarding the Order of Things

Speaker 2: Very good. There is such a thing about the Chasam Sofer, I don’t remember. That’s what you said about the Chasam Sofer regarding first of all learning Mishnah. So what? I don’t remember. You tell me, I don’t remember. I remember such a Chasam Sofer. Perhaps he’s talking about at any rate someone whose soul truly yearns for Torah, he can do it that way.

No, the reality is that the custom is not like this, not just from today, already for a long time. Perhaps it has to do with the exile, because people were always afraid, one can’t know. If nobody has a livelihood, for example which was the case in many periods, then if one would conduct oneself this way nobody would ever get married, as it says there in the Gemara “he didn’t marry a wife.” One could never get around to it.

So the custom of most Jews for a long time has not been to conduct themselves this way, presumably because it’s not realistic. Or one can say today that starting to look for a livelihood, to spend ten years learning a profession, and afterward when he’s already thirty he’ll get married. We’re not talking about that, we’re talking about what works.

So after the fact, but it’s still true. This is an answer if someone asks a question why people don’t conduct themselves like the Rambam, he answered the answer that under difficult circumstances one does so. But the fact that the Rambam says that one struggles because of this, that has remained, it hasn’t solved the problem.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: So I don’t know what one should do in practice.

Speaker 1: Yes.

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The Rambam: “It is forbidden for a person to abandon or consecrate all his possessions”

Speaker 2: So the Rambam continues, “It is forbidden for a person,” further regarding how a Torah scholar conducts himself with financial matters, “It is forbidden for a person to abandon or consecrate all his possessions and then become a burden on others.” A person may not live in a way — he essentially also said this regarding the middle path of how one spends. A person may not declare ownerless for charity or consecrate all his possessions, and afterward burden others, imposing himself on people for charity.

And the same thing, “He should not sell a field and buy a house.” A person may not sell his field which is his income and use all his money to buy a nice house. Or “nor a house” — the house which gives him stability and he always has where to live, and buy nice things with it, movable goods. “Or do business with its proceeds” — or sell his house and make risky investments with the house money, do business.

Speaker 1: Very good, a very important thing.

Speaker 2: The opposite, yes. “But one may sell movable goods” which are less safe, which are less stable, “and buy a field.” It’s my emphasis. The Rambam here promotes very careful dealing, very careful with money. “According to all Torah and justice” he calls it.

In summary, an orphan in his stature, he should set his goal, he should set his focus to make his assets succeed, he should only eat according to the immediate need, not spend money on, I don’t know, a nice car or a nice house, or enjoy a little and lose a lot, or to have a bit of pleasure and with that one ends up having a lot of damage. He needs to be careful in order not to come to a situation where he would need to ask for help from people.

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The Chasam Sofer’s Approach Doesn’t Align with the Rambam

Speaker 2: The Rambam continues, this is in monetary matters. And now Rabbi Yitzchak Skepel made a discussion about business dealings — what does one do if a Torah scholar needs a livelihood? The Rambam says that the Chasam Sofer says that a Torah scholar may indeed, if he has self-sacrifice, he may go the opposite way.

I don’t know, it could be that the Rambam didn’t hold that a Torah scholar has self-sacrifice for other things. It doesn’t fit — the Rambam is speaking specifically about a Torah scholar. I think the Chasam Sofer follows the Tosafos of those who argue against the Rambam and say that one must give up one’s life (yehareg v’al ya’avor) for other mitzvos as well. The Rambam doesn’t hold this way, that yehareg v’al ya’avor applies to other mitzvos.

No, he says that a person has righteousness and God will provide for him, but here it doesn’t fit so well with the Rambam, because the Rambam speaks here the opposite way — a simple person does this way and a Torah scholar does not do this way. Do you understand? It’s exactly the opposite.

Speaker 1: Yes, one needs to understand the context of which time period we’re talking about and what the surrounding situation was, and…

Speaker 2: But as I told you, the Rambam didn’t wait around — he had a terrace. He had a wealthy father-in-law. Back then he had faith. Good faith and a wealthy father-in-law. Okay, that’s a joke.

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Halacha 5 — The Business Dealings of a Torah Scholar with Truth and Faithfulness

Truth and Faithfulness in Business

Speaker 2: The Rambam continues, “The business dealings of a Torah scholar are with truth and faithfulness.” He says, besides the fact that everyone must conduct their business with faithfulness, a Torah scholar must have a very high level of truth and faithfulness. Everyone must, but not everyone does. A Torah scholar actually does.

“He loves truth — his no is no and his yes is yes”

He continues, “He loves truth — his no is no and his yes is yes.” He speaks the truth.

“He is meticulous with himself in accounting and giving, and is forgiving to others”

“He is meticulous with himself in accounting and giving.” He is very exacting in his accounting, his bookkeeping is very honest. “And he is forgiving to others.”

Speaker 1: I think “meticulous with himself” means…

Speaker 2: You’ll say it next.

Speaker 1: “He is meticulous with himself and forgiving to others.” To others who take — I think “meticulous with himself” means that he should be like people who are very exacting in business, meaning he shouldn’t let someone else take from them, they’re always stubborn about it. He should be very meticulous about himself that he shouldn’t take from another person, but when it comes to giving to another person, he should be forgiving.

Speaker 2: That means, he makes a deal with someone, if the other person twisted things a bit, he forgives, but for himself he is very exacting.

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“And he pays the seller immediately”

Speaker 2: “And he pays the seller immediately.” When he buys something, he pays right away. This is a sanctification of God’s Name (kiddush Hashem), which is also about appearances (maris ayin) so that no one should think he’s taking with a claim. Perhaps we’re not even speaking only from the perspective of kiddush Hashem, which is indeed correct — if you have money and you have no complaints, but you have money, go pay right away.

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“And he doesn’t become a guarantor or a surety”

Speaker 2: “And he doesn’t become a guarantor (arev) or a surety (kablan).” He is not a guarantor for money, and not a surety.

Speaker 1: Kablan means an arev kablan, who pays first on behalf of the other person, right?

Speaker 2: Yes. A guarantor means that if the other person won’t pay, I will pay, and a kablan means he pays for the other person, he lays out money for the other person. This he doesn’t do.

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“And he doesn’t come with a power of attorney” — Not Being a “Litigant”

Speaker 2: “And he doesn’t come with a power of attorney (harsha’ah).” He shouldn’t buy things on authorization.

Speaker 1: What is harsha’ah? Agents and partners?

Speaker 2: I think harsha’ah means that yes, he speaks in someone’s name…

Speaker 1: Harsha’ah is like a power of attorney, as it’s called, right?

Speaker 2: Yes, harsha’ah means that he shouldn’t be a litigant (to’en), that a Torah scholar shouldn’t receive an authorization, a power of attorney, to go and argue on someone’s behalf. Being a litigant is not a job for him. “Do not be an arranger of lawsuits” (al t’hi orekh hadinim), yes. And he shouldn’t seek disputes, and look for how to take up causes for the right people.

But in general, it’s not a problem to be someone else’s protector, someone else’s advocate. You should be your own protector.

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“He obligates himself in matters of buying and selling” — Keeping One’s Word

Speaker 2: He continues, “He obligates himself in matters of buying and selling in a place where the Torah does not obligate him.” A Torah scholar should be stringent in this. There are matters of buying and selling where he could perhaps claim “I hold like this opinion” (kim li), or he could say that he is in possession of it, but he should still concede, “so that he stands by his word and does not change.” So that he shouldn’t…

Perhaps this is speaking about how a person may say a bit of an untruth, he could make a certain claim that would help him, but a Torah scholar should rather give up his money than say something that is not one hundred percent true.

Insight: This Is Speaking About “Lacking Trustworthiness” (Mechusar Amanah)

It seems to me more that this is speaking about, as he brings from the Gemara, the topic of “mechusar amanah” (lacking trustworthiness). That means, sometimes someone says, “I’m going to buy from you for a dinar,” there’s no formal acquisition (kinyan), it’s not binding. He can retract, there’s not even a “mi shepara” (curse for retracting).

There are laws where one cannot retract, or there’s a level where one can retract but it’s not proper — they make a “mi shepara” on him, they say a curse to him, “He who punished the generation of the Flood will punish one who does not stand by his word.”

He says here an even smaller level, which is called “mechusar amanah” — there’s no formal… he just plainly said it. A Torah scholar, even if he just plainly said it, should fulfill it, “and not change” — he should not change. Or if he wants to be stringent, he should better not say it in the first place.

This is the… even though the Torah doesn’t obligate, perhaps he didn’t have to buy at the price he stated, there was no formal acquisition in the proper manner, “so that he stands by his word and does not change.” He should keep his word. “And does not change” is like “the time of shearing” which is “the time of benefit,” as it’s called today. Keeping one’s word.

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“And if others owe him by law — he is patient with them and forgives them”

Speaker 2: “And if others owe him by law,” conversely, if other people owe him, “he does not pursue the law to its fullest extent to claim from them, rather he is patient with them and forgives them.” He should be patient with them — this probably means when he has lent money, he should give them more time, and forgive them.

When does he need to forgive entirely? Perhaps it means something like this — the other person promised him but there wasn’t… If he can make a claim, I don’t see that a Torah scholar needs to give up if he has a legitimate claim, if the other person stole from him. Seemingly.

—

“He lends and gives, and conducts business faithfully”

Speaker 2: “He lends and gives, and conducts business faithfully, and does not engage in excessive conversation with a woman in the marketplace.” This means one shouldn’t open a shul next door to an existing shul.

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“And he never causes pain to any person in his life” — Not Being a Pursuer

Speaker 2: “And he never causes pain to any person in his life” — you should never hurt any person, ever. A great thing, “in his life,” unless it’s necessary, or when he’s never not a person. He’s speaking here about these kinds of things.

No, you shouldn’t be the pursuer (rodef), okay.

Discussion: “God Gave Other Mitzvos Too”

Speaker 1: So R’ Yankele asks, he says, God gave other mitzvos too.

Speaker 2: Yes, do the other mitzvos. There are always people who grab someone else’s mitzvah. You never need to be the one who grabs the mitzvah of pursuing someone. God designated such people.

And so it truly is. When you see that someone rushes to pursue others, you should know that he is not a Torah scholar, because if he were a Torah scholar, he would have followed the Rambam here.

Better to Be Pursued Than to Pursue, Better to Be Insulted Than to Insult

In summary, I think he emphasizes — if a person is going to argue, if I can’t be the pursuer, if I can’t be the pursuer, I must be the pursued. Rather you should be the pursued and not the pursuer, rather you should be the insulted and not the one who insults.

It’s a Greater Shame to Be the One Who Screams

“And so says Solomon, ‘Gather all these deeds and the like.'” It’s an interesting thing — the Rambam says here that there is a way of not being embarrassed, because I’m the one who screams. The second way of being embarrassed is that one gets screamed at. But it’s a greater shame to be the screamer than to be the one screamed at. If one can avoid being screamed at, that’s very good. But if those are the two options, you should rather be the pursued than the pursuer.

Practical Application — Kol Korehs

But he said this very well — many times people are afraid, I don’t want, God forbid, regarding the kol koreh that calls to defend me, they’ll throw me out. You know what? You should be the embarrassed one. It’s not dangerous.

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Conclusion of Chapter 5 — “You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified”

Speaker 2: “And all these deeds and the like” — one who conducts himself in all these ways, a Torah scholar, this is the level. See what he aspires to for an aspiring Torah scholar as well, one who wants to be a Torah scholar. “Torah scholars, you are called ‘adam’ (man),” “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness” — he is the adam.

“About him the verse says, ‘And He said to me: You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.'” God says to this Jew, God says to Isaiah, “You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified” — you are the Jew with whom I will adorn Myself, you conduct yourself like a Jew.

Insight: The Distinction Between Hilchos Talmud Torah and Hilchos De’os

This verse the Rambam explicitly brought in Hilchos Talmud Torah, Chapter 5, exactly this verse, the same language.

But it could be that here it’s already deeper. Here he truly is the one — not just “told about” like fake advertising, he is told about because he is truly worthy of being told about. He is, after all, a person. I think this is truly a wondrous thing, a miracle beyond measure. God intended to make him into a person. Wonderful. That’s it.

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Conclusion

Speaker 2: That concludes the chapter. Which chapter was it? Chapter 5. Fifth chapter.

And thank God, if he’s not a scholar, he doesn’t need to do all these things from this chapter.

Speaker 1: R’ Pinchas…

Conclusion of Chapter 5 — The Deeper Meaning of “Told About” and Closing Remarks

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Insight: “Told About” — He Is Worthy of Being Told About

So we see that… but it could be that here it’s already deeper. Here he truly is the one — not just “told about” like fake for something, he is “told about” because he is truly worthy of being told about, he is, after all, a person.

I think this is truly a wondrous remark — three-quarters of the matter is that he becomes a person. Wonderful.

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Conclusion of Chapter 5

That’s it. That concludes the chapter… Which chapter was this? Chapter 5, fifth chapter.

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Remark: The Chapter Only Applies to a Scholar

But thank God, if he’s not a scholar, he doesn’t need to do the other things in this chapter, he’s exempt, he doesn’t need to worry. He should try to be a scholar. If he should try to be a scholar.

There was a dispute whether he said it. Okay.