Laws of Prayer Chapter 8: Communal Prayer — The Virtue of Communal Prayer and the Synagogue

Introduction: From Individual Prayer to Communal Prayer

Okay, rabbosai (gentlemen), we are learning Hilchos Tefillah U’Birkas Kohanim (Laws of Prayer and Priestly Blessing). We won’t yet learn Birkas Kohanim, but rather about prayer, Chapter 8. We are holding in Sefer Ahavah (Book of Love), Hilchos Tefillah, Chapter 8.

And we discussed that the Rambam was a tremendously good Jew, he helped many Jews, he supported Jews, he wrote letters to help Jews. It occurred to him to make a chesed (kindness) organization to transcribe all the difficult laws from the Gemara, to help us out with this holy organization.

And this comes as a continuation of what we learned yesterday, that essentially every Jew can pray alone. But the Chachamim (Sages) simply wanted to help Jews who have difficulty with language, who don’t have beautiful language for prayer, poetic language of piyutim (liturgical poems), so the Chachamim provided them with nuscha’os (prayer formulations) which are suggestions, good advice that, ah, this is a good way of praying. This is how Rav Yitzchak wanted to teach us, that one shouldn’t be overly precise with the words. I learned more that they established the correct way to pray, that one must learn it just as one learns a piece of Gemara or a piece of Rambam. But there’s no contradiction between the two. Okay, these matters we’ll still discuss.

Torah is Chesed

Ah, if it’s such a mitzvah, the entire matter of Torah is chesed, that Jews should have clarity. The Rambam wanted there to be clarity, that everyone should be able to understand the Torah. The Rambam says chesed… nu… “Toras chesed al leshonah” (Torah of kindness is on her tongue). Learning Torah with people is the greatest chesed, says the Rambam, yes.

One must know that there are Jews who do chesed with people, and they make it possible for the shiur (lesson) to happen. They provide the maggidei shiur (lecturers), they pay for the shiur, for all the equipment that’s used, for all the advertisements that are sent around. And today Reb Yoel Wertzberger paid, author of “Ma’ayan Kerem L’Torah V’Chochmah.” So this is also his chesed, his chesed which is built upon the chesed of the Rambam. And b’ezras Hashem (with God’s help), everyone should learn from this, and whoever will pay for the Rambam, when he passes away the Rambam will come to greet him, saying yasher koach (well done) that he helped him with his abundant chesed. He’ll send him a link to his donor page. And this is also good advice, this way one becomes at least somewhat of a partner with Reb Yoel, the patron of the vineyard.

Individual Prayer Versus Communal Prayer

Okay, the short of it is, until now we learned Hilchos Tefillah, seven chapters we learned about the essence of prayer. The essence of prayer is that one prays, meaning b’yachid (individually), a person prays. Now we’re going to learn that there is such a thing as tefilas hatzibbur (communal prayer), which helps with praying. I want to perhaps remind, people think, because we’re very accustomed that everyone prays b’tzibbur (with the community), that prayer in general is something done b’tzibbur. No, prayer is something a person does beino l’vein Kono (between himself and his Creator). But when one prays b’tzibbur, it succeeds better. Therefore one prays b’tzibbur, but it’s not the basic meaning that this is the…

Yes, from the previous chapters we saw several times that we’re apparently speaking of basic prayer not b’tzibbur. That is, a person is at the head of a tree, at the head of a wagon, a person is in his bed. We discussed that the berachos (blessings) that the Rambam said clearly are not done in the beis hamedrash (study hall). So until now we spoke about people who pray at home. And so it’s also implied from “holech baderech” (traveling on the road), these are all people who pray alone when they’re on the road. Here we’re going to speak for the first time about what we all know as the ma’amad hadavenen (prayer gathering), one comes to the beis hamedrash to pray tefilas hatzibbur.

And it begins with the mitzvah, with the ma’alah (virtue), the essential topic, why should one pray in the beis hamedrash? What is the matter of tefilas hatzibbur? The Rambam first goes to explain what is the virtue of tefilas hatzibbur, how it works. Afterwards he’ll go into the details of how it actually looks, how one organizes tefilas hatzibbur, which is somewhat a different order from tefilas hayachid (individual prayer), yes? But from here it also emerged that everything the Rambam mentioned earlier, the nuschaos hatefilah (prayer formulations), is also relevant to tefilas yechidim (individual prayers). That is, for example Pesukei D’Zimra (Verses of Praise) is not something that an individual should skip. It’s exactly like “Ashira LaHashem,” and whatever the Rambam enumerated, “Tehillah L’David” beforehand. Afterwards, the entire seder hatefilah (prayer order) from beginning to end is relevant also for an individual, not only the Shemoneh Esrei (Eighteen Benedictions). Whatever it is, what the Rambam enumerated yesterday.

But here there are things that an individual doesn’t do, we’ll see. There’s chazaras hashatz (repetition of the Amidah), kedushah (sanctification), v’chadomeh (and the like), things done only b’tzibbur. But in general the order is also for an individual. Yup.

Law 1: Communal Prayer is Always Heard

Communal Prayer is Always Accepted

The Rambam says thus: “Tefilas hatzibbur nishma’as tamid” (Communal prayer is always heard). There is a halachic ruling. There are laws for Jews, and there are laws for the Ribbono Shel Olam (Master of the Universe). The Ribbono Shel Olam must know that when an individual comes to His house with a prayer, not always must He answer him but as He wishes. But that which is only by will, the individual is a tzaddik (righteous person), it comes to him. But a tzibbur (community) the Ribbono Shel Olam must always answer. This is a law for the Ribbono Shel Olam.

I think the Rambam speaks very halachically, because in Hilchos Tefillah Chapter 4 the Rambam said the things that interfere with prayer. The first thing was kavanas halev (intention of the heart). What does kavanas halev mean? That one prays as if, as he expresses himself there, I think, in Chapter 2, that he speaks lifnei haMelech (before the King), he speaks with the Shechinah (Divine Presence), it’s a certain mindset, it’s a certain level. And if one doesn’t pray at that level, the prayer is not accepted, or at least it’s not a prayer that was done properly.

He says, tefilas hatzibbur, even if there isn’t the kavanah, there isn’t the level of kavanah, even if “hem chot’im” (they are sinners), chot’im means, the purity of heart for prayer is lacking, the… I don’t agree, I think what’s lacking is the condition of kavanas halev, but nevertheless “ein HaKadosh Baruch Hu mo’es tefilasan shel rabbim” (the Holy One, Blessed be He, does not reject the prayer of the many), and that itself helps.

Explanation: Communal Prayer Itself is a Type of Kavanah

But it’s not so difficult, because you’re not going to leave the video, a tefilas hatzibbur itself is a type of kavanah. The whole world stands and prays, that means there is a kavanah, that one is there at the prayer.

What’s written in the Rambam is something else. When he says “even if hem chot’im, ein HaKadosh Baruch Hu mo’es tefilasan shel rabbim,” the simple meaning is that the Almighty only answers for tzaddikim. A rasha (wicked person) prays that the Almighty should make him do teshuvah (repentance), or other things he needs. Now you’ve revealed that it’s a simple matter, prayer doesn’t mean that the Almighty gives for free, He gives to whoever is worthy. Prayer is an obligation, a mitzvah.

The halachah says, this comes from the Gemara and the like, that… If you’ll be able to buy another one, because we’re going to hit on this. If you leave every time, you leave the video. The halachah says, the haggadah, I don’t know what it’s called, but the halachah says that when a tzibbur of Jews pray, the simple meaning is that in every tzibbur there are tzaddikim, apparently that’s the reasoning. If you have a chotei (sinner), not everyone is a chotei, and one can say that even the collective, overall is not a chotei, generally everyone has their virtues and their deficiencies. Overall, the collective always comes out right, and the prayer of the tzibbur always helps. And the virtue is not only that.

Lfikach Tzarich Adam Leshasef Atzmo Im Hatzibbur

Lfikach (therefore), let’s go further. Lfikach, yes, lfikach, tzarich adam leshasef atzmo im hatzibbur (a person must join himself with the community), that a person must imagine himself, make himself a partnership with the tzibbur, v’lo yispalel yachidi kol zman sheyachol l’hispalel im hatzibbur (and should not pray individually whenever he can pray with the community). That is, not only does the prayer of the collective of the tzibbur get accepted, but if I want my prayer to be accepted, I go into the tzibbur, and then my prayer gets caught up with the prayer of the tzibbur. It helps for the individual too, not only does it help for the tzibbur, it also helps for the individual that the merit of the tzibbur helps him that his prayer should be accepted. That’s how I understand the simple meaning.

Innovation: The First Time We Speak of “Nishma’as”

Certainly one can, whoever wants to rationalize it, must say that the fact that the Almighty only answers for tzaddikim is also a logical thing. He hasn’t yet enumerated that a prayer, only a prayer of a tzaddik is accepted. He hasn’t yet enumerated that prayer in general is answered. He hasn’t yet enumerated that in general one must answer the prayer. Here is the first time one speaks of nishma’as (being heard). Yes? Until now one only said that it’s a mitzvah to pray, and hasn’t yet said that the Almighty helps. This is the first time one begins to speak laws for the Almighty, yes? I call it laws for the Almighty, it’s funny.

Rabbeinu Yonah: Leshasef Atzmo = Also Plural Language

And I thought that the simple meaning is not such a bad meaning, it’s actually not so very simple. But further, l’olam (always), it’s true that Rabbeinu Yonah actually says this meaning, he also says that he adds an innovation, that in the matter of leshasef atzmo im hatzibbur, it simply means that one should go pray in the beis hamedrash when the community prays. But Rabbeinu Yonah says that it also means that the language of the prayer should be in plural language. As we see in Shemoneh Esrei, everything is said in plural language, one doesn’t say “refa’eini” (heal me), one says “refa’einu” (heal us), one doesn’t say “selach li” (forgive me), one says “selach lanu” (forgive us), “hashiveinu” (return us), yes? You’ll say, there’s a difference between “nu” and “ni.” One doesn’t say “shema koli” (hear my voice), one says “shema koleinu” (hear our voice). And the simple meaning is, so says Rabbeinu Yonah, that the person is better connected, he says, “I, not only I need forgiveness, the entire Klal Yisrael (Jewish people), all Jews need forgiveness.” So he joins himself with the tzibbur.

“Kol Zman Sheyachol” — When He Can

Okay. But we see the boundary of the Rambam is “kol zman sheyachol” (whenever he can). That is, when he can pray with the tzibbur, he should be able to. Ah, I think “kol zman sheyachol” is already also a time law, because there’s a mitzvah to pray as early as possible. That is, praying at netz hachamah (sunrise) is better than praying with the tzibbur later. And let’s say the tzibbur has a later time, he should still pray as long as he can still pray with the tzibbur. Once the tzibbur has already prayed, he goes to pray, but he should wait for that. But the meaning is, kol zman sheyachol, when it’s relevant to him. It’s like this, he doesn’t say chayav l’hispalel b’tzibbur (obligated to pray with the community), he says if you can, you have two options, you can pray individually, you can pray b’tzibbur, you should pray b’tzibbur. If you don’t have two options, there’s no longer a question. There’s still further an obligation of tefilas yachid.

No, but it can also be that if a person thinks, I should pray at home, and there’s still going to be a tefilah b’tzibbur, kol zman sheyachol l’hispalel b’tzibbur, he should still not pray alone. But that’s not the meaning of the words. No, but I’m saying how it’s relevant regarding halachah, that’s a different question. A person wakes up at vasikin (earliest time), there are still going to be minyanim (prayer quorums), should he wait. That’s not written. That’s a question for halachah, whether the virtue of tefilah b’tzibbur is greater than the virtue of prayer at its proper time. One must ask an external question. Yes, but I think that’s not written here. Here it only says simply, lfikach when he cannot. If he cannot, someone has, as the Ramban brings, hakol leshem shamayim (everything for the sake of Heaven), someone has a more important thing, and he cannot go to the beis hamedrash, he should pray. The Ramban says there’s a dispute.

L’olam Yashkim Adam V’ya’ariv L’Veis Haknesses

L’olam (always), ah, afterwards the Ramban says another thing. L’olam, besides the enactment of praying b’tzibbur, there’s another important thing about praying in a beis hamedrash. L’olam yashkim adam v’ya’ariv l’veis haknesses (A person should always come early to shacharis and in the evening to ma’ariv to the synagogue), a person should always come early to shacharis (morning prayer) and at night to ma’ariv (evening prayer) to the beis haknesses (synagogue), she’ein tefilaso shel adam nishma’as b’chol eis ela b’veis haknesses (for a person’s prayer is not heard at all times except in the synagogue). A person’s prayer is not heard b’chol eis (at all times), always, ela b’veis haknesses.

This means to say, the beis haknesses here that he wants to say here, beis haknesses here doesn’t necessarily mean b’tzibbur, because even if a person prays alone, he should rather do it in a beis hamedrash. Yes, that can be. But apparently from the language “b’chol eis” means to say ela b’veis haknesses shehu shel tzibbur mispalelim (except in a synagogue which is of a community praying). Because if this were a matter of geography, a place where the beis haknesses is, it would say “b’chol makom” (in every place). No, “b’chol eis” means when a person prays, only in a beis haknesses which is its simple meaning. Again, “b’chol eis” means, that usually when you pray, sometimes the Almighty answers you, sometimes He doesn’t answer you. And they say there’s a matter with praying, not that praying with praying.

Prayer in the Synagogue: “She’ein Tefilaso Shel Adam Nishma’as Ela B’Veis Haknesses”

Law: Prayer in the Synagogue – “B’chol Eis”

A person’s prayer is not heard b’chol eis except in the beis haknesses.

What they want to say here, a beis haknesses here doesn’t necessarily mean b’tzibbur. Even if a person prays alone, he should rather do it in a beis hamedrash.

But apparently from the language “b’chol eis” it means to say “ela b’veis haknesses,” this is important like a tzibbur mispalelim (community praying). Because if it were a matter of geography, a place where the beis haknesses is, it would say “b’chol makom.” No, “b’chol eis” means that when a person prays there in the beis haknesses, it’s important like a tzibbur mispalelim.

B’chol eis means that usually when you pray, sometimes the Almighty answers you and sometimes He doesn’t answer you, as is said regarding the tzibbur. If you pray in the beis haknesses, He answers you always. That’s the meaning of “b’chol eis.”

Simple Meaning: “Yashkim V’ya’ariv L’Veis Hamedrash”

But I think the simple meaning means… the Gemara says that one should go to the beis hamedrash, one should make an effort. The simple meaning means this: A person says, “I’m not going, because I don’t know if there’s a minyan or not.” He says, “No, first of all, in the morning and at night go to the beis hamedrash. You’ll see that there will be a minyan, you’ll pray along. If not, you’ll pray alone.”

I think specifically the idea of the halachah that one should pray in the beis hamedrash even without a tzibbur, it’s true that there are those who interpret the halachah this way, but I don’t know if the language “yashkim v’ya’ariv” means that. He says that one should go every day to the beis hamedrash, because usually there’s a minyan there. That’s what I think.

The Halachah Creates the Minyan

Sometimes, you have to think, how does a minyan come to be in the beis hamedrash? Because if everyone says, “Maybe there’s no minyan, I’m not coming,” one must say a halachah that everyone should go to the beis hamedrash, so there will actually be a minyan in the beis hamedrash. Not that everyone should say, “I’m not obligated, and if I won’t come I can’t come, and there won’t be a minyan.”

We look at it very much like a clock, seven o’clock one prays. But once upon a time one lived with “nature.” The rooster crowed, it became early, one went to the beis hamedrash. That’s the meaning of “yashkim” – when it’s early you should go to the beis hamedrash. And when it gets dark, you know that now one can still gather for mincha-ma’ariv, go to the beis hamedrash.

But he says that the halachah, this is the halachah that makes there actually be a minyan in the beis hamedrash. There are many people, and you always say that there usually is, but this is the halachah.

Connecting with Tefilas Harabbim

So the halachah, the she’ein tefilaso shel adam nishma’as ela b’veis haknesses, is exactly the same halachah as tefilas hayachid. If there are chata’im (sins), the Almighty is not always [accepting]. But tefilas harabbim (prayer of the many) not. This is the same thing.

I also think, it can be even if there’s no law of tefilas harabbim, there’s still a piece of prayer of… There’s no minyan that’s holding at the same place, but there are ten people in the beis hamedrash who are praying, each one prays his own.

Okay, true, there are even those who say other things, it’s written in the Gemara that one should pray at home, if he can’t go to the beis hamedrash, he should pray at home at the time when the tzibbur prays, there are all kinds of ways how to connect with the tzibbur.

“Asarah Rishonim”

But I think he brings that the Gemara of “yashar kocham v’ya’arich yemeichem” (may your strength be upright and may your days be lengthened) which also means that there will be “asarah rishonim” (the first ten). I think “asarah rishonim” is not a major thing, it means to say because someone must make a beis hamedrash, that this makes there be a minyan, that the community stands on the phone and goes to wait until there are ten people.

The halachah was written for the block, the block, they’re all ten Jews, they should all go to the beis hamedrash in the morning and make a minyan. It fits very well.

Law: “Shachen Ra” – One Who Doesn’t Go to the Synagogue

Look at the next piece, the Rambam says further, this is also a social piece, further the chesed (kindness) for the…

The Rambam says this: Someone who has a beis hamedrash (study hall) in his city, and he doesn’t go in to make sure there’s a minyan (quorum of ten), rather he davens (prays) when there’s a minyan, he is a shachen ra (bad neighbor).

We’re not talking here about… It’s not a law in hilchos tefillah (laws of prayer), it’s a law in hilchos being a participant with the tzibbur (community). One comes to the beis hamedrash, one is the seventh, and only then is there a tenth.

Reb Yoel, I have negios (personal interests), I read this, I can’t believe this halacha. I also have the same negios.

It says this: “And anyone who has a beis haknesses (synagogue) in his city and doesn’t enter it to pray is called a shachen ra.” It doesn’t say he doesn’t daven with a minyan. He has a beis hamedrash in his city, what is that? A place where one can daven in his beis hamedrash, he doesn’t go there to daven, he is called a shachen ra.

Two Deficiencies

That means, such a person does two deficiencies: One, he doesn’t follow the mitzvah of davening with the tzibbur. It could be that he actually doesn’t have to, because he’s not a chota (sinner), he’s a fine Jew. But at least he’s a shachen ra, because now people are struggling in the beis hamedrash, and he’s not part of the tzibbur.

Psak Halacha: Even When There’s a Doubtful Minyan

I also have negios, I want to add another thing. The psak halacha (halachic ruling) on this, that this means even if he says, there’s a doubtful minyan here, because I only have ten here, there are only ten young men who live in the city, and I have to come, he wants to be sure, he’s holding back his own limbs…

The entire virtue of tefillah betzibur (communal prayer) is that one doesn’t hold back one’s convenience, rather one gives oneself over for the tzibbur.

He comes here and says, no, I do want to have tefillah betzibur, therefore I never come to my neighborhood’s beis hamedrash, I go somewhere else further away, because there I like to daven better, and the people here are struggling. That is indeed a shachen ra, truly a shachen ra, the truth.

Digression: Rebbes and Local Shtiebels

And let’s expand on this a bit, there are rebbes who say, we gather our chassidim, we are the chassidim, we make a separate shul. And there are rebbes who are makpid (strict) on the Rema, and they say, one shouldn’t distance oneself, someone should come and he’ll give a kvittel (note), and he’ll say, I’m now going to call together every neighbor from the next twenty streets, and I’ll make a small shtiebel of fifteen of my chassidim, and they shouldn’t daven in the local good batei medrashim (study halls). Okay, that’s a different chakira (investigation), it’s a discussion in itself. No, this is one of the conditions of the beis haknesses in his city, we’re not talking about whom we’re talking about.

I know my grandfather, my older grandfather was a Belzer chassid, he was somewhat of an activist in the Belzer shtiebel in Williamsburg, and I saw in his home many letters, several letters from the Belzer Rav, from the gabbai Fogel, he writes that the Rav, when making the shtiebel, the Rav requests very strongly to make the Belzer shtiebel not too close to the Skver shtiebel – the Skverer Rebbe was a Belzer grandson – and he should be very makpid that they don’t take away chas vesholom (God forbid) any minyan from the Skverer Rebbe. So, yes, there were rebbes who also reckoned with other rebbes’ minyan. Okay, very good.

“Madua Basi Ve’ein Ish”

Anyway, the oved es boro (one who serves his Creator), as my uncle came to speak with my father in the beis hamedrash, he repeated the Mishnah, that when someone comes to the beis hamedrash, the Gemara in Berachos, the Ribbono Shel Olam (Master of the Universe) comes to the beis hamedrash and He sees there’s no minyan, “madua basi ve’ein ish” (why did I come and there’s no man). Why isn’t there even one person? When there’s one true ish (man) there would already be, would already make, would already do.

Halacha: Mitzvah Larutz Lebeis Haknesses / Al Yafsia Pesia Gasa

The Rema says further, “mitzvah larutz lebeis haknesses” (it’s a mitzvah to run to the synagogue), it’s a mitzvah to run into the beis hamedrash. One must be mashkim (rise early), one must get up early, and one must act with zerizus (alacrity), “shene’emar ‘neidah nirdefa ladaas es Hashem’” (as it says “let us know, let us pursue to know Hashem”). One is already holding by Modeh, one already knows, now one goes running to the beis hamedrash to serve the Ribbono Shel Olam.

“Vechesheyotzei” (and when he leaves), the opposite. “Kesheyotzei mibeis haknesses, al yafsia pesia gasa” (when leaving the synagogue, he shouldn’t take large steps), he shouldn’t run, he shouldn’t even walk with pride, “ela yelech me’at me’at” (rather he should walk little by little), he should walk gently, calmly.

The Menuach’s Vort

So the Menuach says, he should leave from the beis hamedrash. And he wants to say, because he’s called Menuach (rest), he says this, that when a person goes to his makom menucha (place of rest), he runs, because “sham yanuchu yigiei cho’ach” (there the weary rest), there he’s calm. And he goes out, he would have wanted to stay there.

He says, one who has seichel (understanding), understands that in the beis hamedrash, that’s where he wants to be, outside he has to struggle too, he runs to the beis hamedrash, and when he goes out calmly. What’s the meaning? In beis haknesses.

The Person Who Runs Out Is the Same One Who Stands by the Door

The same person who takes large steps also stands next to the door, he grabs the first… so he can quickly run out. It’s not consistent. One should be in the beis hamedrash with kevius (permanence), with simcha (joy).

Halacha: Shiur Shnei Pesachim – Yikanes Shiur Shnei Pesachim Ve’achar Kach Yispalel

Okay, when, “keshenichnas” (when entering). Then the last “shiur shnei pesachim, ve’achar kach yispalel” (the measure of two doorways, and afterwards he should pray). He shouldn’t find himself from the main street directly into the center of the beis hamedrash, because one needs, it’s a great preparation, one needs to have a place outside to be ready for the beis hamedrash.

Derech Shnei Pesachim or Shiur Shnei Pesachim?

I mean that he shouldn’t stand by the door, he should go in deep into the beis hamedrash as much as two doorways, like that. There’s a Gemara that discusses, is it derech shnei pesachim (through two doorways) or shiur shnei pesachim (the measure of two doorways)?

But one can hear in simple pshat (straightforward meaning), there’s a small room, you come in, it’s winter and your glasses are fogged up, don’t come into the beis hamedrash like a guest, come into the beis hamedrash when you’re already ready to daven.

“Lo yireh mezuzos pisei” (he shouldn’t see the mezuzos of the doorways), the pesach of pisei, my door, the door of the beis hamedrash, where the Ribbono Shel Olam is, one goes through mezuzos, one goes through two doors.

No, but the meaning is, I mean that the meaning according to what’s written in the Rambam shiur shnei pesachim, the meaning is, not that you need to have two doors in the beis hamedrash, you don’t have to have two doors.

Not Sitting by the Door

The point is, there are people who come to the beis hamedrash, you see, he always stands right by the door. Why? To show, I need to have a place to be ready. There’s someone who has his place by the door, he stands there on the side, so they can’t ask him.

I’m speaking to someone who, many times you see people come during the week to Mincha, yes, he stands right by the door. Why? Because I’m only halfway in the beis hamedrash, I don’t belong here. No, go in, find a table, sit down, whatever, that’s the, it’s more like, there are people who are embarrassed, and perhaps the point is what you said.

Ah, I thought about this, that there are many times, there’s someone making a mesiba (celebration), I don’t know what, and all the people stay at the back tables. He says, “Move in, rabbosai (gentlemen), move in.” What is it? He stands like such a… Go in between the doorways. I hear. I mean that’s the pshat.

He says, Reb Nachman says, that here perhaps… It depends if you say there’s an anteroom, a foyer, that’s exactly what it’s made for, that whoever wants to stand outside should stand in the foyer. You shouldn’t stand idle in a corner. It’s not a good law that one should sit next to the door.

People Think It’s Humility to Sit at the Back Table

It’s the same thing as with the large steps. The same person who takes large steps also stands next to the door, he grabs the first… so he can quickly run out. It’s not consistent. One should be in the beis hamedrash with kevius, with simcha.

Yes, I’m trying. See, it’s not an inyan (matter), people think it’s anavah (humility) to sit at the back table. The back table means to say that you’re halfway in the beis hamedrash. Sit down between the doorways.

Today we said, not between the doorways, don’t make two tables. Sit down. Don’t make it so there should be a table behind you, a rudder. Because not, as he says, when a person comes, I’m a maggid shiur (lecturer), a person comes to a shiur, he moves to the back. Why does he sit in the back? He needs to be able to run out in the middle. Well, fine, if you need to run out, run out. But sit down here. Be a player.

Halacha: Beis Hamedrash Gadol Mibeis Haknesses

Now comes an inyan, beis hamedrash. We spoke about beis haknesses. Beis haknesses means, a place where the people come together. Knesses is from the language of knesiya, yes, one comes together to daven. Beis hava’ad, beis haknesses, the place where one is assembled.

Beis Hamedrash – Makom Hachachamim

But besides that there was, today there isn’t such a reality so strongly, but besides that there was such a thing, a beis hamedrash, medrash means where one is doresh (expounds), where one explains the Torah. I mean that medrash today we’ve translated, doresh doesn’t mean in the language of giving a drasha (sermon) to the tzibbur. Doresh means like mechkar (research), investigating. Doresh itself. One would call it a beis hamechkar. One investigates. One explains the Torah, and there one learns.

There are two batei medrashim. There’s where there’s a shtender (lectern) and someone teaches them, and there’s… Ours is more a beis haknesses, as he says, usually. In beis haknesses one also learns.

Beis hamedrash is the place where the individuals, the talmidei chachamim (Torah scholars), are investigating the Torah. Beis midrashо shel Avraham Avinu, beis midrashо shel Shem ve’Ever. I mean it wasn’t a place where one gave a shiur. One made the shiur in the beis hamedrash. No, the shiur was in the beis haknesses. Beis hamedrash means the academy, the makom hachachamim (place of the wise).

It’s understood that the makom hachachamim is more important than a makom am ha’aretz (place of the unlearned). That’s what the halacha means, “beis hamedrash gadol mibeis haknesses” (the beis hamedrash is greater than the beis haknesses). The makom hachachamim, the shtiebel where the rebbe, where the chachamim learn, the kollel, there is certainly a greater kedusha (holiness) than there.

Gadol means more important. More important, more holy, I don’t know how one wants to say it, yes. “Chachamim gedolim afilu shel olam be’iram uvebeis haknesses.”

Tefilas Tzibbur: Beis Hamedrash, Mahus Tefilas Tzibbur, Vedinים Shebe’asara

Beis Hamedrash More Important Than Beis Haknesses

It wasn’t a shiur, one made the shiur in the beis hamedrash. No, the shiur was in the beis haknesses.

Beis hamedrash means the academy, the makom hachachamim. So it’s understood that the makom hachachamim is more important than the makom ha’am (place of the people). That’s what the halacha means. Beis hamedrash is good, and beis haknesses… The makom hachachamim, the shtiebel where the rebbe, where the chachamim learn, the kollel, there is certainly a greater kedusha than there. I mean that there means more important. More important, more holy, I don’t know how one wants to say it, yes.

“Chachamim gedolim shebe’oso hador, uvebatei kenesiyos harbe hayu lahem” (the greatest sages of that generation, and they had many synagogues), they had several batei kenesiyos where people came to daven. Ah, this is a language that refers to whom? Chachamim gedolim. The Rambam doesn’t want to say their names, because he makes me not say the names, because I want to tell you something. “Vehayu lahem batei medrashоs harbe, vehayu mispallelin bahem” (and they had many batei medrashim, and they prayed in them), they davened only there.

Rebbe Ami and Rebbe Asi, there were thirteen batei kenesiyos in Tiberias, they davened only by the pillars there where they learned. By the pillars there where they learned. “Velo hayu mispallelin ela bemakom shehayu oskin bo baTorah” (and they only prayed in the place where they were engaged in Torah), only where they learned.

Machlokes Rishonim: Tefillah Beyechidus or Betzibur?

But the Rambam puts in a condition, “vehu sheyispalel sham tefilas tzibbur” (and that is that he should pray there communal prayer). That means, it’s not so clear, there’s a machlokes Rishonim (dispute among early authorities) how one learns the Gemara. You want to say that it means that they learned, they didn’t go to the beis haknesses, they davened beyechidus (individually), because they held that the place where they learn is more important than the tefillah. But the Rambam learns no, there was a minyan in the beis hamedrash, so there was also a minyan. The point is that they davened in that minyan, because they pursued the kedusha. There must be a tefilas hatzibbur in the beis hamedrash. But… One must… Yes, good.

Practical Nafka Mina: Who Belongs in the Beis Hamedrash?

Let’s go further. “Krias haTorah betefilas hatzibbur” (Torah reading in communal prayer). Let’s go further. So far we’ve learned the virtue of tefilas hatzibbur, that tefilas hatzibbur is very important, and one must go to the beis hamedrash, to the beis haknesses, or if there’s a beis hamedrash. It could be that the chachamim, fine, everyone can go to the beis hamedrash. But what is there a beis haknesses?

I thought about this, the beis hamedrash, Rebbe Ami and Rebbe Asi went to daven there where they learn, because it was their makom kadosh (holy place), it was a place that’s holy, because they daven there and learn there. So a talmid chacham has a place in the beis hamedrash, he should go daven there. But an am ha’aretz should stay in the batei kenesiyos for a giant, because that’s where you belong. If you don’t learn here, you don’t grab onto a connection with the merit of the beis hamedrash.

One can learn this way, that it’s a makom kadosh. So the Rambam said Moshe Rabbeinu’s a place where Jews daven becomes holy the place, but the straightforward meaning, the chacham should come daven in the beis hamedrash, because then is the yirah (awe), he lives, he celebrates. So Rebbe Ami and Rebbe Asi, aheicha dehavu garsei (where they were studying), where they learned, and the Rambam also says, shekol oskin bah baTorah (that all are engaged in Torah), yes? So makom kavu’a oskin bo baTorah (a fixed place engaged in Torah), one can learn it the place where in that beis hamedrash they learned, but he means here in the place where the chassidim learned. Very good.

This is the source that the mashgichim (spiritual supervisors), that a yeshiva bachur (student) must daven in his yeshiva. And generally that’s not why the rebbes who davened in a shtiebel, davened in a shtiebel, they had there, there they do avodas Hashem (service of God) the whole day, they had a makom kavu’a of Jews. For example here, here Jews’ learning need to make… According to the rebbes they need to make a minyan here, or and others already, so it’s better even here to daven individually.

Discussion: What Does “Tefilas Tzibbur” Mean?

And it can even be, “vesham yispalel tefilas tzibbur” (and there he should pray communal prayer) can also actually mean that he davens the kind of davening that an oseik baTorah (one engaged in Torah) can.

Speaker 2: Eh, yes, that’s such an answer, like you want to bring me in, one davens the oseik baTorah before the amud (lectern).

Speaker 1: “Vesham yispalel” (and there he should pray), what kind of davening? Tefilas tzibbur! The davening which is Shemoneh Esrei is the baal tefillah (prayer leader) in a loud voice, and the others answer Amen. If that’s the meaning of tefilas tzibbur, by the way, that the tefilas lachash (silent prayer) isn’t actually tefilas tzibbur, that I want to be mechadesh (innovate) here. Tefilas betzibur is the meaning, not the simple meaning that ten people daven each one for himself separately together with the tzibbur. Here, tzibbur, one davens it being, it means one davens one one one davening, because in tefilas yachid (individual prayer) the Rambam said tzarich lehashmi’a le’ozno (one must make audible to his ear), it’s not a silence that one reads. The Rambam said that it’s not enough like one reads a book. It must be audible to his ear. Here is completely silent, it’s very internal, because tefilas hayachid he must bring out audibly to his ear.

Speaker 2: Yes, yes, certainly, that’s clear, he hears.

Speaker 1: Now, what does tefillah betzibur mean?

Speaker 2: No, I’m saying a drop more. I’m saying that it seems to me that the essence of tefillah is hearing the words of tefillah. Certainly, certainly. When one hears from the baal tefillah one hears the baal tefillah, and when one hears oneself one hears audibly to his ear, he hears his own davening.

Speaker 1: I don’t agree. I don’t agree.

Speaker 2: One can hear that the reading is both things together. It’s a shiur in the reading.

Speaker 1: Tefillah betzibur means that one davens together with a tzibbur. What does it mean one davens together with a tzibbur? One hears there someone who says it for everyone.

Speaker 2: Right. But I’m saying by tefilas yachid he said how he is audible to his ear, so it could be that’s the essence of being yotzei (fulfilling the obligation), with hearing the sounds, audible to his ear, audible to his ear.

Speaker 1: I don’t agree. I don’t agree. It doesn’t make sense.

Halacha Daled: Keitzad Tefilas Hatzibbur

“Ve’ein osin kein” (and we don’t do so). Who is a tzibbur? A tzibbur means ten. Ve’ein osin kein, this means for tefillah betzibur.

Speaker 2: No, he wants to say that tefillah betzibur means that one says it aloud and the others hear. What do you think, that I’ll say it aloud and you’ll also say it aloud? No, one doesn’t make tefillah betzibur as long as there isn’t yet ten.

Speaker 1: I told him. Prayer with a congregation (tefillah b’tzibbur) is a kind of essence, a kind of way of how one prays. Not that each person prays for himself, but one prays with a congregation. But in order to make such a prayer with a congregation, the Sages said, the Master of the Universe (Ribono Shel Olam) said, that one makes… Why doesn’t this fit? A congregation must be at least ten people, not just anything. The prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) is one of them. Yes, that means nine people must pray besides the prayer leader. Good.

Continue.

Speaker 2: That’s how the Rambam goes, even if some of them.

Speaker 1: Yes, it’s very important, he brings it like this, it says in the poskim and others, that when ten people, the silent prayer (tefilat lachash) is not a congregational prayer. That ten people pray at the same time, that doesn’t yet mean congregational prayer. Congregational prayer only means that one speaks and the others listen.

Discussion: Shomea K’oneh and Ten

Speaker 2: There’s a practical halachic difference (nafka minah l’halacha l’ma’aseh), for example, if five people stand together and one says the Shemoneh Esrei aloud and the others listen, weren’t they yotzei? Do they need to make themselves heard (mashmi’a l’oznam) themselves, or did shomea k’oneh work further?

Speaker 1: That could be, but it’s not a congregational prayer. Congregational prayer means that ten Jews listen, or nine Jews.

Speaker 2: Okay, so one needs to know if there’s an extra law of shomea k’oneh. It doesn’t come in so strongly here. But I’m asking if one is yotzei if several people say it together. But here the question is whether one should do it, whether one shouldn’t do it in the study hall (beit midrash), whether thereby falls the recitations. But that’s not hearing his voice (shemi’at kolo), that’s not hearing his voice, the people, yes good?

Speaker 1: Ah, “and one should not do so” (v’ein osin ken), yes, because even, I want to understand a bit better, by “and one should not do so,” it could be that we’re talking here about the study hall, about the study hall when there are ten, one disturbs those praying and makes a congregational prayer. What I mean to ask, “and one should not do so” means there’s no obligation, or does it mean that one is not yotzei from hearing that person pray if it’s not with the power of tradition. Not a congregational prayer, one can see other things that are only with a congregation. A congregation must be a congregation, a congregation isn’t enough with three people, a congregation must be a bit of a congregation, the minimum congregation is ten people, that’s the problem.

Those Who Already Prayed – Complete the Ten

And so, he says, the ten don’t have to be ten who are praying, even if this is those who already prayed (k’var hitpalelu), even if part of them already prayed. The law doesn’t come in so much. Even if the ten don’t have to be those who already prayed and fulfilled their obligation, part of them, it means less than the minority, it means four of them, complete the ten (mashlimin asarah), and the measure of most of the ten are praying, if most of the ten are praying, there can be a minority who aren’t praying and they are there completing to ten. Not that they aren’t praying, no one is praying, let’s understand, no one is praying, he already prayed for himself, or he already heard from a second prayer leader and the like.

Law 4 (Continued): Things That Are Done Only With Ten

And also another thing, other things that exist only with ten, congregational prayer is done only with ten. And a few more things that one doesn’t do only with ten. And so, “one does not say Kedushah”, one doesn’t say Kedushah, or as others have the text, one doesn’t say Kedushah d’sidra, what? “and one does not read from the Torah and bless before it and after it”, yes, Torah reading you can do what you want, but one doesn’t make a blessing on the Torah with a Torah reading, and one doesn’t make a haftarah from the Prophets, except with ten. These things one does only with ten.

Law 5: Pores Al Shema

And a few more things, and so, “one person should not bless the blessings of Shema and everyone listens and answers after him Amen, except with ten”. That means, congregational prayer mainly means Shemoneh Esrei, but there’s also a custom that the same thing one does… There’s something called… We don’t do it. We don’t do congregational prayer for the blessings of Shema, because each person says the blessings of Shema for himself. But what does pores al Shema mean? The one who is pores al Shema, in the Gemara and in the Mishnah there’s such a concept called pores al Shema. What does pores al Shema mean? Pores al Shema means that one makes congregational prayer also on the blessings of Shema. One says the blessings, and the people listen and answer Amen. One says the blessings of Shema, except Shema itself. The blessings of Shema one says aloud, and the people listen and say Amen. This one also does only with ten. This is the Mishnah, one doesn’t spread over Shema with less than ten.

Kaddish and Lifting of Hands

Yes. Another thing that one doesn’t do, “and one doesn’t say Kaddish except with ten”. Another thing that one doesn’t say only with ten, this is something called Kaddish. We don’t yet know what this is. But it’s very interesting, by pores al Shema it’s the opposite, it’s a stringency that each individual should say it himself, and here one doesn’t say Kaddish at all. You don’t bring Kaddish at all, and it’s not relevant for an individual. “And a Kohen doesn’t lift his hands except with ten”. Yes. And the ten, the Kohen is part of the count (min haminyan), if part of the count are Kohanim, one can do the lifting of hands (nesi’at kapayim).

Law 5 (Continued): Source for Ten – Edah

The Rambam tells us the reason for all these things called matters of the congregation, congregational prayer, one does only with ten. Why? “For every ten from Israel are called an edah”. They can be called a community, an edah. The Torah says rabbim, how many is rabbim? It’s ten. When ten is called an edah, as it says by the spies, “as it is said ‘How long for this evil congregation,’ and they were ten, for Joshua” this evil congregation. That means, the edah was too many, the spies, but they weren’t evil. Evil was only the ten. Therefore one sees that the minimum edah is ten. That’s the simple meaning. Another source.

But anyway, it’s already. Now, another thing, “and every matter of holiness”… Which matter of holiness did the brazen Israel not count? “And every matter of holiness”, yes?

Rambam Laws of Prayer Chapter 8: Congregational Prayer — Source of Edah, In One Place, and Prayer Leader Fulfills Obligation

Law 5 (Continued) — Source of “Edah” = Ten, and “Every Matter of Holiness”

Speaker 1:

So it is, “‘Separate from the tent of this evil congregation,’” “Separate,” Rashi writes, “Joshua and Caleb.” That means, the edah was twelve spies, but they aren’t evil. Evil is only the ten. Therefore one sees that the minimum edah is ten. That’s the simple meaning. An interesting source.

But anyways, it’s already. Now, “and every matter of holiness,” which matter of holiness is he explaining? “And every matter of holiness.” Yes, besides this, besides all these lists of things that he counted, the seven things that the Rambam counted that are done only with ten great ones of Israel etc., in general, every matter of holiness should not be except with ten.

Why does it say here all the other prayers that he counted, Malchuyot, Zichronot, Shofarot, or whatever, it’s all prayers. Why does it say “every matter”? Perhaps he means to say the principle, the principle of all these things? I don’t know. Let’s see what’s here… I don’t know. I mean that no one brought the simple meaning here, I want to think.

“Every matter of holiness should not be except within a congregation of Israel.” What did he mean, a wedding? There are laws. “And I shall be sanctified among the children of Israel.” Ah, but by sanctification of God’s name we do indeed have it so, if it’s before ten Jews. Yes, but what do the ten Jews have to do with the matter of congregational prayer? It has nothing to do with it. There’s some connection that the Rambam says here.

No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I read it wrong. I read it wrong. No, no, no. It’s actually so. Here there’s a reason, the two things are confusing us. He wants to say like this. What’s the source that there’s such a thing that one does all these things called “matters of holiness” with… He says, because it’s called an edah. He says, but the matters of holiness one must do with an edah. And they say that in edah, by children of Israel the word edah doesn’t appear, but one sees that one understands that it means an edah. And holiness, “and I shall be sanctified,” is actually simple meaning means “and I shall be sanctified” in sanctification of God’s name, but certainly one doesn’t mean here in sanctification, and the “and I shall be sanctified” is among the children of Israel. One who demands that the holiness should be among the children of Israel. This is a continuation for the reason, for the source. It’s not a new law. The law is confusing, it even says law 6, actually perhaps it’s an error, I don’t know, but I see there also here a law that was still with you. But the point is, this is the continuation, the conclusion of the teaching. One learns from edah and holiness that it must be specifically among Israel. Very good.

Law 6 — They Began With Ten and Some Left

Speaker 1:

Now, all these things, yes, God forbid or… What was said that there need to be ten, actually ideally all ten should be from beginning to end, yes, they shouldn’t leave in the middle. But if, yes, one began with ten, in the middle it happens that only six people remained, four people remained, but they are the majority, they should complete, one doesn’t need to now change the way of praying. One can continue to pray as the prayer text says. The prayer leader can continue and the people should listen and be yotzei. The repetition of the Shemoneh Esrei the same thing, one can also… Ah, one must think what does “they should complete” mean? It means, one will see soon, one makes a whole Shacharit. It could be it only means one will finish Shemoneh Esrei, but no Kaddish afterward he perhaps won’t say, because that already needs an edah at the time of holiness. So he indeed brings explicitly from a… from the Rambam, that for example if there are ten and one began the blessings of Yotzer and the people left, one should say those pieces, that means one shouldn’t do the next thing. Kaddish for example after Shemoneh Esrei is another thing, one should finish the whole Shemoneh Esrei, for example.

Law 7 — There Must Be Ten All in One Place

Speaker 1:

The Rambam says, “There must be ten all in one place, and the prayer leader with them in one place.” That means, what does this mean? This is the form of congregational prayer, how does the people stand? He says that all ten with the prayer leader must be in one room. Yes, these are laws of COVID. “There must be ten all in one place, and the prayer leader with them in one place.” For example, how should it be? The Rambam says an example. No, he says an example, he says that it’s not permitted to… Now are laws what is called in one place? Normally in one place means in the same room. But there are exceptions. What are the exceptions? A small courtyard that opens to a large courtyard. There’s a larger room and next to it a smaller room. A small hall in front of a large hall. Ten in the large one and an individual in the small one, the one from the small one can see the nine from the large one. It doesn’t say anything here about seeing. It says that they must join together there, take with the details. The small one is nullified to the large one, but the large one is not to the small one. If there are nine people in the small room and one in the large room, it doesn’t mean that he’s in the same room as them, because a large room includes in it the small room, but the small room doesn’t include in it the large room. The same thing if the prayer leader is in one place, he will explain. The same thing, prayer leader in the large one, sorry, the congregation in the large one and prayer leader in the small one he is yotzei, because it’s the small one. But the opposite, congregation in the small one and prayer leader in the large one, he is not yotzei. “For,” and he says here the reason, “for he is separated from them,” in such a case the prayer leader is removed from the people, or the individual that was spoken of earlier, the individual who wants to join, “and they are not in one place.”

The Rambam’s Reasoning: Why the Small One is Nullified to the Large One

Speaker 1:

No, he’s explaining here by the large and small courtyard, that the large one has an opening from here and from here. Between the large and small there are walls, and behold how many divisions are there from the small one that holds it back from the small one. But in the small one, from the divisions from the large one, there is nothing except this and this are equal. The whole matter of praying is like this, that the small one should join and nullify himself before the large one. What he says here is like this, by the small one, in the picture, I don’t know if I can put the picture in the video, but he says such an interesting way. I said simply that the small one is nullified before the large one, the Rambam says a bit more complicated. He says all of it, by the small one, the entire length of the small one, the entire thing is completely in the large one. By the large one, you go to the left side where there’s the wall that makes it larger than the small one, there isn’t any small one there. So the large one isn’t completely connected with the small one, but the small one is completely connected with the large one. This is all the Rambam’s interesting reasoning.

Questions That Remain Open

Speaker 1:

In any case, the word that one learns from all these things is that it must be, not ideally, it must be in the same place. The Rambam doesn’t say that one can stand in extra porches and see each other, I don’t know. These are questions the rabbis have with COVID. Um… yes. It also doesn’t say that one must be able to see at all. It doesn’t say anything about seeing. It says about… Okay, he’s speaking here in a case when one is indeed in a study hall. What happens when one is not at all in a study hall, and one can join people who are… just in a field, who are close and they pray together. I need to check this… The rabbi doesn’t speak here about this.

Law 8 — Practical Difference: Excrement in the Large and Small

Speaker 1:

Okay, and so… Ah, the same law. Since the law is that the small one is nullified to the large one and not the large one to the small one? Yes. We learned… We already learned the concept called excrement, it comes in a lot in love. We already had by Shema and by prayer, that it’s forbidden to pray… Here you have a place in prayer and in Shema. So if there’s excrement in the large one, it’s forbidden to pray and read Shema in the small one, because the whole place is now called a place that isn’t clean. But the small one, if there’s excrement in the small one, one can continue to pray and read Shema in the large one, because the small one doesn’t affect the large one so strongly. And not its name is smell, Rabbi Nissim we used to learn it.

Law 9 — The Prayer Leader Fulfills the Obligation of the Many

Speaker 1:

Very good. Now one will learn what happens when we pray with a congregation, whether we also need to pray ourselves extra. The Rambam says: “The prayer leader fulfills the obligation of the many.” The obligation that they have to say Kedushah or to say the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, the prayer leader does it for them. “How? When he prays,” when the prayer leader prays, “and they listen,” the congregation listens, “and answer Amen after each and every blessing, behold they are like those praying,” it’s as if they prayed. The Rambam says: “To what does this apply? To one who doesn’t know how to pray,” one who can’t pray himself, should do it through hearing the prayer leader. “But one who knows, doesn’t fulfill his obligation except with his own prayer.” One who can indeed pray, he doesn’t fulfill his obligation of prayer except when he prays himself.

Precision: “And Answer Amen” — A Condition

Speaker 1:

Yes. This one must understand about the silent prayer. This one must first ask about “shomea k’oneh,” one must know how the law of “shomea k’oneh” is relevant, but it seems that there’s a mitzvah of praying oneself if there’s the matter of a prayer leader who fulfills in hearing itself. “And they answer Amen,” it also seems here that it’s literally a condition there. Because this is the congregational prayer. Shomea k’oneh wouldn’t work for this it seems. One must see which law shomea k’oneh helps. What it seems here. Yes. The question, what does “knows” mean? It’s simple meaning, he can, he can say the Hebrew, he can remember the prayer text. Okay, it could also be if someone couldn’t concentrate for example, what was said earlier, one must in such a manner be able to be yotzei from the prayer leader. I don’t know, the Rambam doesn’t say this thing “knows,” but…

Question: Congregational Prayer is Only for the Ignorant?

Speaker 1:

An interesting thing comes out, as long as congregational prayer only serves for the few people who don’t know Hebrew, it’s very funny. The Rambam… Okay. Do you understand what I’m asking? Yes. And earlier you said… I’m asking even a deeper question, earlier you said that congregational prayer is better than individual prayer, it’s more answered. Now you’re saying no, congregational prayer is actually only for the ignorant who don’t know.

Answer: Congregational Prayer is the Form, Not Only the Fulfillment

Speaker 1:

No, no. It’s just that this is a certain condition in communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur) that the prayer should fulfill the obligation. The essential matter is that everyone should gather together and pray in one place. No, what was said before, what is communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur)? Again. I told you before because I already asked you this point. Again, this has a certain form of how one does it. Again, this is not, it’s not stated explicitly, they haven’t yet spoken about repeating, right? Until now what they’ve said about communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur) is the meaning that one person speaks and the entire congregation listens. That is the meaning of communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur), there is no other meaning of communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur).

Now he says the novelty of the matter (chiddush hadavar), the communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur) doesn’t fulfill the obligation for the individual (yachid) at all, rather the one who doesn’t know is fulfilled through this. It’s very interesting, the entire advantage of communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur) is only for the common people (am ha’aratzim). That’s what it says in the Rambam. It can’t be, it’s a bit strange, but that’s what it says here. It seems strange to us. But one who knows is only fulfilled through his own prayer (tefillat atzmo). Let’s finish. For us, no one will hold such a reasoning for you. Everyone is… What does the Rambam say? The Rambam doesn’t say anything. Let’s finish the law (halacha). But one who knows, I’m repeating the matter. What is important? But one who knows is only fulfilled through his own prayer (tefillat atzmo), what does this mean? If the one who knows heard from the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) he still wasn’t fulfilled. No, not fulfilled. This is the point. This is a Mishnah. I mean, it’s an entire thing. But I think that from here is again a… from the order comes that one prays first the silent prayer (tefillat halachash), this is the prayer of one who knows how to pray (mi sheyodea lehitpalel), and afterwards the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) for those who don’t know.

Let’s finish, let’s conclude. In what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim), yes. In what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim). Yes. In what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim) in the Gate of Jubilee (sha’ar hayovel).

Law 9 (continued) — The prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) fulfills the obligation for one who doesn’t know; distinction between all days of the year and Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur

The Rambam’s words: In what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim)

Speaker 1:

No, he is not fulfilled. That is the point. That is what he learns. It’s a Mishnah, I mean, it’s an entire thing. But I think, from here is how the law (halacha) of the order comes that one prays first the silent prayer (tefillah belachash), this is the prayer of one who knows how to pray (mi sheyodea lehitpalel), and afterwards the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) for those who don’t know.

Let’s finish, let’s conclude. In what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim)? In what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim)? On the other days (bish’ar hayamim). God forbid, an entire year, all days of the year (kol yemot hashanah). What does one do then? What then is that those who can pray by themselves, should pray by themselves, and only whoever cannot is fulfilled from the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah). But on these two days, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and on the Jubilee (shebayovel), that is when one says Kingships, Remembrances and Shofar blasts (malchiyot zichronot veshofarot), then the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) fulfills the obligation for the one who knows just as he fulfills the obligation for the one who doesn’t know, he fulfills everyone’s obligation. Because they are long blessings (berachot aruchot), they are long blessings, and most of those who know them, even those who know all the blessings, cannot concentrate their minds (yecholin lechavein da’atan), they cannot have complete concentration of mind (kavannat hada’at), that he doesn’t stand…

Explanation of the Rambam’s words: “Most of those who know cannot concentrate their minds”

Even those who know the prayers, but they cannot concentrate so well. He could have said that people don’t remember. I remember the prayer of every day, or even a prayer of a holiday (yom tov) I remember. But he says even those who know cannot concentrate.

He says, simply he wanted to explain the Gemara which says that the Mishnah says that the distinction of Kingships, Remembrances and Shofar blasts (malchiyot zichronot veshofarot), that the simple meaning is a long blessing, you don’t remember the blessing. The Rambam says no, even those who know (yode’im), because the simple people (anashim peshutim) are those who know (yode’im). He says even the one who knows (yodea), who knows, not that he knows the prayers of all days of the year (kol yemot hashanah), he even knows the prayers of Kingships, Remembrances and Shofar blasts (malchiyot zichronot veshofarot), but he cannot concentrate his mind (lechavein da’ato) like the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur).

What is the meaning that he cannot concentrate his mind (lechavein da’ato) like the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur)? To maintain the concentration (da’at), to maintain the intention (kavanah) for so long. Can the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur)? The prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) sings melodies, he maintains control, he has pressure from the prayer book (machzor). I think that the Rambam doesn’t mean the explanation of the words (peirush hamilot), I think he means he is certainly here, he certainly leads the prayers.

What is the meaning? The general principle (kelal) is that the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) concentrates better than the congregation.

I think it’s very interesting, because he says here “fulfills the obligation for the one who knows just as he fulfills the obligation for the one who doesn’t know.” Why must the Rambam say “and even though the one who knows prays for himself”? Because it’s obvious that in every study hall (beit hamidrash), according to the Rambam, I don’t remember so well the text (nusach) of Passover, I don’t remember those parts, those parts I hear from the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah). But Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur everyone should, even the one who knows (yodea), should listen to the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah), even if he knows the parts. Even if he knows the parts, because simply he is not knowledgeable (yodea) regarding those parts, that is the text (nusach). Even the one who knows (yodea), yes?

Speaker 2:

Yes.

The role of the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) as a “place where one checks out”

Speaker 1:

One sees here how the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) was like a place where you could check out. A person catches himself, I don’t have clarity now, you can check out, you will hear from the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah), and when you can come back in. But Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur the proper way (lechatchilah) is that one should, yes, one should…

Yes, it’s very interesting, because he brings here, the Tur says that this is the practical law (halacha lema’aseh), this is also ruled (gepaskent) in the Shulchan Aruch, that Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, Kingships, Remembrances, Shofar blasts (malchiyot zichronot shofarot), one should listen, one should be fulfilled, but what makes us fulfilled? He says that the Tur brings that it’s hard to concentrate with the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur), it’s easier to concentrate when one prays alone. But this is the opposite of what the Rambam says. The Rambam says that it’s harder to concentrate when one says it alone. I don’t understand what’s going on. For the person for whom it’s difficult one does it this way, and for the person this way.

Discussion: Question on the distinction between one who knows (yodea) and one who doesn’t know (eino yodea)

Speaker 2:

But I’m asking you something else. If you know how to pray (yodea lehitpalel), he shouldn’t rely on him. One who knows (yodea) is obligated to pray by himself, that’s what the Rambam says, “fulfills his obligation (yotzei yedei chovato)”. The novelty (chiddush) that you want to make that suddenly he became one who doesn’t know (eino yodea), why? Because he doesn’t remember Ya’akov and his dwelling. Now he is completely one who doesn’t know (eino yodea) in this? Okay, a forced breach (pirtzah dechukah), I don’t know if this is the law (halacha). There are ways (ofanim) that the decisors (poskim) say such things, if he has a doubt, for the time being. But I don’t know the law (halacha).

But my basic question that I asked before I answered here, it’s very difficult for me. If it is communal prayer (tefillat tzibbur) this means, and the entire advantage of communal prayer (tefillat tzibbur) is this. And you say that no, communal prayer (tefillat tzibbur) is only an advantage for whoever cannot pray alone. But when the side says the problem that… that one cannot be fulfilled through this for everyone. There are people who must specifically have a silent prayer (tefillat halachash) to be able to concentrate (kavanah).

Answer: Rosh Hashanah Yom Kippur — one does both

Speaker 1:

So Rosh Hashanah Yom Kippur, the kindness organization wanted to help more Jews. Rosh Hashanah Yom Kippur, one should do both for them. Those who can by themselves, and can by themselves have higher intentions (kavannot), should pray by themselves, and afterwards there is still the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah). Also for the reason, because it is a large prayer book (machzor) of our tremendous prayers. It is very hard to concentrate. But nevertheless, one who can concentrate by himself and this helps him, they made time for him. So one does both.

Speaker 2:

Yes. But this doesn’t work out both. The silent prayer (tefillat halachash) of Rosh Hashanah Yom Kippur, apparently is made according to the reasoning you say. For the one who then prays better. The Jew who prays must be able from the silent prayer (tefillat halachash). And the rest can hear from the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah).

Speaker 1:

Well well, the… the Rambam… there was something, the Rambam abolished entirely the prayer… the prayer… of the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur), no? Anyway, another topic. Let me hear, tell me.

The Rambam’s responsum: Enactment in his synagogue regarding the order of prayer

Speaker 2:

So he brings here… one must look clearly… like the Rambam in the responsa (teshuvot). Yes, I don’t see clearly. He brings a long responsum (teshuvah) from the Rambam about the laws (halachot). Perhaps one can see in the next chapter more details about how this works.

He says that he saw, our custom (minhagenu anu), that the morning prayer and additional prayer (tefillat shacharit umusaf)… he looked what he says that the morning prayer (tefillat shacharit) the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) says the prayer aloud, he says that the congregation doesn’t listen to the prayer leader’s prayer (tefillat hashaliach tzibbur). Therefore in the prayer… they didn’t know the prayer, they cannot do this alone. And therefore he changed something. He did differently, he made that one should do the Kedushah aloud always, something like that.

The Rambam said that this doesn’t work, “do not make for yourselves” (al ta’asu leshem), so he says. It’s very very nice to see how the Rambam thought about such things, he made the custom (minhag) differently. The Rambam said that since he saw that the congregation doesn’t conduct itself, he doesn’t understand what to do with communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur), he made “if they were saying intermittently, the prayer should be stopped until they stop, and if they don’t stop, it is better that the prayer be abolished, and this involves removing desecration of God’s name (chilul Hashem), so that our children should not think that our prayer is mockery and scorn.”

So therefore he says, he says if there is sometimes a small quorum (minyan) of few people who are knowledgeable (anashim me’atim uveki’im), then he does normally as the order is, a silent prayer and aloud. Perhaps this is how everyone holds today that everyone is few people who are knowledgeable (anashim me’atim uveki’im), but when the congregation comes, he made, because of the majority of people, he makes only one prayer. He says, he makes only a prayer aloud, he doesn’t make… or the opposite, I don’t remember which. He makes only a silent prayer (tefillat lachash) with Kedushah, if I’m catching now. I’m not catching clearly which one he makes only. I’m confused.

In any case, it’s not so simple the entire topic of silent prayer (tefillat lachash) and communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur). I still don’t understand the basic thing. I mean he says only prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) and listening Rosh Hashanah, that’s how it seems to me from the language of the Rambam. Okay, one must go inside.

Discussion: What was the Rambam’s enactment (takkanah)

Speaker 1:

I can go inside for you, but it’s too long for me to catch what is the basic thing. The prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) shall say the prayer aloud with Kedushah, so he says. He doesn’t say one who is knowledgeable (baki) is fulfilled, the one who is knowledgeable (baki) is in his opinion… ah, the Rambam says… ah, the Rambam made a simple thing. The Rambam said, who said to make two, it takes twenty minutes the whole affair, I know how long it takes, two silent prayers. Let’s say the prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur) should say aloud, whoever cannot should be fulfilled, whoever wants should say along at the same time. What is the problem? That was the Rambam’s enactment (takkanah).

Speaker 2:

I know that the Chatam Sofer used to do this.

Speaker 1:

What, always?

Speaker 2:

That he used to pray along with the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) the silent prayer (tefillat halachash).

Speaker 1:

Why?

Speaker 2:

Because he held that this is the essence of communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur). That he prayed along with the… this is the essence of communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur).

Speaker 1:

He was lengthy in the blessings of the recitation of Shema with the congregation and so on. He was lengthy in the recitation of Shema.

Speaker 2:

What did he do? He stood to pray…

Speaker 1:

Also in that order he stood to pray with the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) the silent prayer (tefillat halachash).

Speaker 2:

He said that this is the essence. They are not fulfilled, it says apparently clearly that the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) is also not equal that he doesn’t pray any silent prayer (tefillat lachash) beforehand, because he himself is going to pray.

Speaker 1:

Here the Rambam says, the Rambam answers the question, apparently it says in the Gemara explicitly he should repeat the prayer (yachzor hatefillah), the Rambam says that this is not a problem, because he is going to pray again, he prays again for the congregation, he prays again for the additional prayer (musaf) of Rosh Hashanah, but the daily… here he says one must rule, I learned before that one doesn’t need to exactly, advantage apparently true.

Distinction between Mishneh Torah and the Rambam’s responsa (teshuvot)

Speaker 2:

Very good. The Rambam says in what cases are these words said (bameh devarim amurim), further who is the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah)? The prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur). Very good. If one makes a prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur), it could be the Rambam made such an enactment (takkanah) in his synagogue, but in his book Mishneh Torah he writes what the essential law (ikar hadin) is according to the law (halacha). That’s a good one.

Speaker 1:

So here we see that the Rambam is not a book of the customs of Moses’ words (minhagei divrei Moshe), it is a book of Moses’ Torah (torat Moshe), he wants to say what the Gemara is, what the Oral Torah (Torah shebe’al peh) says. But that he made a change in his synagogue, this doesn’t need to be recorded, because this is not Oral Torah (Torah shebe’al peh), this can be in the customs of the Rambam’s study hall (minhagei beit hamidrash shel haRambam) for historians.

But today’s way how everything works with the decisors (poskim) is, one writes every thing that a decisor (posek) once did, and one looks at it as if this is the stringency (chumra) or enactment (takkanah). This is one of the great sources, a ruling that the Rambam calls it explicitly “it is time to act for God, they have violated Your Torah” (et la’asot laHashem heiferu toratecha), by the way, a great part of legal ruling (hora’ah) is to do “it is time to act for God” (et la’asot laHashem). The Rambam says it explicitly in the Laws of Rebels (hilchot mamrim).

“It is time to act for God, they have violated Your Torah” — the normal role of a rabbi

The rabbi must sometimes act against the law (halacha), he says here, it’s not against the enactments of the Sages (takkanot chachamim). A place where one must most serve with Torah knowledge (da’at Torah) is when one does a transgression for the sake of Heaven (aveirah lishmah). Because when one does a commandment for the sake of Heaven (mitzvah lishmah) I have no problem, when one does a transgression for the sake of transgression (aveirah leshem aveirah) one doesn’t ask further. Transgression for the sake of Heaven (aveirah lishmah), here is the question, here there is a dilemma.

Speaker 2:

Yes yes, I want to bring out the words of the Rambam, that we think that it is a thing that makes an extremely exceptional departure from the norm (yotzei min hakelal). One sees from the Rambam here in the responsum (teshuvah) and also explicitly in the Laws of Rebels (hilchot mamrim), that this is the normal job of a rabbi, to do “it is time to act for God” (et la’asot laHashem). Because the Torah is general. But if you see that today it doesn’t work, and it becomes a rotten apple that spoils the row (pirah mekaleket et hashurah) the prayer, through a habit in the responsum (teshuvah).

Temporary ruling (hora’at sha’ah), individual prayer versus communal prayer, and who is fit to be a prayer leader (shaliach tzibbur)

Temporary ruling (hora’at sha’ah) — the normal role of a rabbi

Speaker 1:

Because one does a commandment for the sake of Heaven (mitzvah lishmah), I have no problem. Because one does a transgression for the sake of Heaven (aveirah lishmah), transgression, I don’t want to continue. Transgression for the sake of Heaven (aveirah lishmah), is what one asks, what is there a dilemma?

Yes, yes, I want to bring out what the Rambam brings out, that we think that one plus one is something that makes… it is completely an external departure from the norm (yotzei min hakelal). One sees from the Rambam here in the responsum (teshuvah), and also explicitly in the Laws of Rebels (hilchot mamrim), that this is the normal job of a rabbi to do a temporary ruling (hora’at sha’ah). Because the Torah is so general. But if you see that today it doesn’t work, it becomes a rotten apple (pirah machricha), God forbid, the prayer, through a certain going of the poor quorum (minyan) factors one can see that what the Rambam said is true, the silent prayer (tefillat lachash) with the repetition of the prayer leader (chazarat hashatz) is just Purim, or one of the two is not good. The Rambam said so, this is in better synagogues. Obvious to the eye (galui la’ayin), as this is obvious to the eye (kefi shezeh galui la’ayin), the Rambam’s words, whoever has eyes can see that or makes… I know, what is there a situation in that study hall (beit hamidrash)? I know. Jews pray very well, Jews pray very holy, fortunate is their portion (ashrei chelkam), keep praying, continue further.

Come in, come in to our synagogues and see that the repetition of the prayer leader (chazarat hashatz)… there are a few pious ones who know that one must stand with hands out to listen. But the congregation doesn’t listen to the repetition of the prayer leader (chazarat hashatz). Rabbi Yitzchak is now prosecuting above, but it’s true.

Practical problems with communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur)

And for example, I want to say another example that happens many times, that people pray very speedily the Eighteen Benedictions (shemoneh esreh). People are accustomed to pray a five-minute Eighteen Benedictions (shemoneh esreh), and in the end he has neither individual prayer (tefillat yachid), nor communal prayer (tefillat rabbim), because the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) takes time and prays, and finishes his prayer and suddenly in the middle the prayer leader (ba’al tefillah) is already at the end or in the middle of praying, he has no communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur) either. That’s not called communal prayer (tefillat hatzibbur), that or, if one is lengthy until he prays with the prayer leader’s prayer (tefillat ba’al tefillah).

And you know another thing because we haven’t heard about the phrases, I want you to understand, but I say, if it is a matter of speaking to shoot, it’s about this, because it forgot, it has a form, people come, it has a form, one prays together, and if everyone today prays his speed in ten, and halfway he holds with the old prayer, it’s a spoiler… But this makes it difficult, that the individuals are not fulfilled through the communal prayer (tefillat tzibbur), okay, let’s go further.

Until now we have learned how the shaliach tzibbur (prayer leader) works. Now we are going to learn who is worthy to be a shaliach tzibbur.

Two Aspects of Prayer: Tefillat HaTzibbur and Tefillat HaYachid

Speaker 1:

He says that this speaks of a permanent shaliach tzibbur, not just someone who goes to Mincha and makes interruptions even for his own sake. It could be that the difference between yachid (individual) and tefillat hatzibbur (communal prayer)… wait a minute, I want to go back.

Perhaps it has to do with, we see that there are two aspects in prayer. There is davening for communal matters, or even as they phrase it, as it is later from Rabbeinu Manoach, that the tefillat hatzibbur is communal. The tefillat hayachid is a person praying for his needs, as we said before that for his needs he should be lengthy at Shome’a Tefillah. There is an emphasis on your needs. So, by Refa’enu he says, he makes some kind of name there.

So, tefillat hayachid has the concept of “yachid hayode’a lehitpalel” (an individual who knows how to pray) doesn’t just mean that he knows Hebrew. He is a davener, he knows certain things, he groans during a longer blessing, one blessing he says three times. It’s okay, because this is at home, there he can connect with davening. So, he knows how to daven the davening. But we have the virtue of tefillat hatzibbur.

But regarding the practical matter whether we should say the language of Rabbeinu Manoach’s language, it could be that the whole concept of saying plural language is when one davens tefillat hatzibbur. It could be in tefillat hayachid, I can say it a bit differently. For example, someone has a sick person at home, he doesn’t have to say the language of Refa’enu, he can say based on that, he can make the blessing more personal.

Speaker 2:

What you’re saying is stated explicitly in a chapter, I don’t remember, that if someone has a sick person in his home he adds in Refa’enu for his sick person. But certainly the shaliach tzibbur doesn’t say this, even if the shaliach tzibbur has a sick person at home, he doesn’t say it, because he davens for the community.

Discussion: Plural Language and the Difference Between Yachid and Shaliach Tzibbur

Speaker 1:

So, I’m saying that there are two things: there is prayer with a minyan, ten men, and there is the text of the prayer that prays for the community, versus the thing of a person praying for his needs. And these two things must also have a connection, meaning that the ba’al tefillah (prayer leader) doesn’t have permission to daven tefillat rabbim (communal prayer), and the yachid is the one who has the opportunity to do this. This can answer the end, even when one says a private prayer, just as he unites with the sick of Israel among the other sick of Israel, one says it in plural language.

Speaker 2:

No, yes, you can say as it states in the text of the siddur it states “among the other sick of Israel,” one sees oneself included, because that helps.

Speaker 1:

No, but I would say for example, let’s say a person has a sick person, his son is sick, yes? And he has a whole text for himself, Master of the Universe look at my son, and he says this, he does the text of Refa’enu, without stopping, it comes out that the prayer he just starts talking to the Almighty about the healing, he was yotzei (fulfilled) the mitzvah of the blessing of Refa’enu apparently.

Speaker 2:

Now you’re asking a different question, if he wants to do it in tefillat yachid, that’s what we saw earlier, that he is lengthy in Refa’enu, he makes a thing where he changes the text. That’s not a difference. I don’t know the simple meaning here, one must say the plural language, one can go back and back. Again, that’s what the Rambam says, do you want to say differently? The Rambam did say so. Not everyone, I already told you, the Rashba says like you, and the Rambam says like me. So, I don’t mean me, I’m telling you what the Rambam says yes.

Speaker 1:

That’s not the point, but you’re right that perhaps because of this there is tefillat yachid, because yachid a yadi means that he can present himself individually with others. I say this agrees with you, in public, what is the difference here shaliach tzibbur? I don’t understand, I don’t know, I don’t mean, who says that the shaliach tzibbur also can’t add? He can’t speak private prayers there, because he is now being motzi (fulfilling the obligation for) the community, he now davens in the name of the community, so he says the community their text.

The whole nature of yachid a yadi tefillah is a matter of between him and his Creator, he needs to remind Him what he needs to remind Him. I turn, I don’t know, he can say the sick person baruch Hashem and excuse me, but let’s say that the rabbi is sick and one davens in public and one adds the prayer for the rabbi, because the rabbi himself is a community. But, I mean to say, I understand that it makes such an obstacle.

A person has a child of marriageable age, and he now starts davening for a name, so we have a long conversation between him and his Creator about shidduchim (marriage matches). Not a long conversation, this is still a text, but he adds something for a good shidduch. Do you think the ba’al tefillah may add to “Yerushalayim ircha berachamim tashuv” (Return in mercy to Jerusalem Your city) for the name? And here mi sheberach lecholim (prayer for the sick), that’s one thing, but here one prepares at a… don’t try it at home. In short, if you go to the amud (prayer stand), you don’t add the Talmud Yerushalmi for yourself. I know that the custom is not to do so, but perhaps a rabbi may do what he wants. But the way I said it, it makes sense, and indeed the shaliach tzibbur doesn’t say it. There must be a reason why the yachid should still daven alone.

Speaker 2:

Ah, and there it states that Rabbi Akiva, in short, he was mekatzar (brief) with respect for the community. Does it mean he davened at the amud?

Speaker 1:

Ah? In short, means that when the community came and he davened at the amud, he also said the text that’s in the siddur. But when not, he recited a whole sefer hatefilot (book of prayers) of Rabbi Natan, the prayer of Rabbi Ramili, sefer hatefilot of the Ramak, all prayers… He had whole prayers of Rabbi Akiva, they exist, the collection is not…

Speaker 2:

Okay, in short, we are going to learn now who is worthy to be a shaliach tzibbur.

Halacha 11: Who is Worthy to be Shaliach Tzibbur

Speaker 1:

The Rambam says, “We only appoint as shaliach tzibbur the greatest of the community in his wisdom and in his deeds”. It’s interesting, why is this? If it’s simple, one really needs to know about the law of shome’a ke’oneh (one who hears is like one who answers). If it’s simple that that one says and you are yotzei by hearing, and the shaliach tzibbur must be an expert, he says for others. He arouses the community.

Let’s say, you yourself said something an hour ago, the Rambam never said this thing. Until now, so I don’t know about this. We learn what’s written in the Rambam. The Rambam says, shaliach tzibbur means one davens and the community listens. So certainly if that one knows better, he understands better what davening means, he has more wisdom, more deeds, he is better. He is a shaliach (emissary), shaliach means he is an emissary, he davens in my agency, yes, as if, I simply.

Speaker 2:

If you say that the Rambam said nothing about shome’a ke’oneh, but the Rambam was aware that we’ve already heard shome’a ke’oneh mentioned, and we can’t have no background. We’re putting in a category that doesn’t exist.

Speaker 1:

No, I understand his argument. “We only appoint as shaliach tzibbur the greatest of the community in his wisdom and in his deeds”. It could be that besides the matter that he davens and one hears, he also arouses the community. It means, the way he davens has an influence on the community. That’s the matter. As one says, “zaken hameshubbach beyoter” (the most praiseworthy elder). The word “zaken” doesn’t mean old, it means “zeh kanah chochma” (this one acquired wisdom). There are those who say, the Gemara says, “zaken sheshachach talmudo” (an elder who forgot his learning), the Gemara says that he is already broken, or “mi sheyesh lo banim” (one who has children). There it states in other places.

Digression: The Berach Moshe of Satmar

Today’s young men, the grandchildren of the Berach Moshe of Satmar, he was the rebbe in Satmar when I grew up, and he would always say with such innocence, it’s interesting, he says this is genuine, how can it be, how can it be that a Jew who has a father who has children should never cry during davening? He has children, this one needs this, that one needs that, this one is broken, that one is knocked down. It’s true, it’s not a novelty. He said it with such simplicity. He’s right. It’s true that he must be such a healthy person. Perhaps this must be, it’s so… I don’t know if he knows, but it’s so… Yes, yes, yes. It depends if he davens strongly. No, he says these are things, these are things… In other places it states one who has children. Yes, but here, perhaps one should say, here one speaks perhaps more of respect for the community.

“We Endeavor that the Shaliach Tzibbur Should Have a Pleasant Voice and Be Accustomed to Reading”

Speaker 2:

Importance? Ah, no, I think to… Aha, “We endeavor that the shaliach tzibbur should have a pleasant voice and be accustomed to reading”. Ah, we’ve entered into the topic of whose prayer is accepted. It could be that this means here simply from respect for the community, that the most important Jew, him we send. The oldest Jew, he is an old rider. Yes.

Speaker 1:

“And we endeavor that the shaliach tzibbur should have a pleasant voice and be accustomed to reading”. Ah, see, ah, interesting, the Rambam doesn’t say like Reb Chaim.

Speaker 2:

No, the Rambam says exactly like Reb Chaim. The Rambam says all these things are good, but “we endeavor.” How should the main endeavor be? What should one mainly look at?

Speaker 1:

No, “we endeavor” doesn’t mean… Hello? No, “we endeavor” means exactly the opposite. “We endeavor” means, for davening he must be the greatest scholar, and we try that he should also be one who can daven nicely, and that “accustomed to reading” means that he doesn’t chop over the words, he can… he is a reader. “Accustomed” doesn’t mean a talmid chacham (Torah scholar), certainly he is “accustomed to reading.”

Earlier it stated “his mouth hastens,” he shouldn’t rush the words. It means apparently that he has good articulation, he gives out well, not one who swallows his words.

“One Whose Beard Has Not Filled In” — A Young Man Should Not Be Shaliach Tzibbur

Speaker 1:

“One whose beard has not filled in, even though he is a great scholar, should not be shaliach tzibbur because of respect for the community”. But didn’t it state earlier “and they would despise him because of his abundance of hair,” does one say that he has no beard at all?

Speaker 2:

No, it’s another thing. He has no beard at all, he’s still a bachur (young man), like Rabbi Elazar ben Azariah, he had no beard at all.

Speaker 1:

Ah, you mean that he’s still young.

Speaker 2:

Yes. If he is so young, even if he is a great scholar, he should not be shaliach tzibbur because of respect for the community.

It’s interesting, because he is a great scholar is not… They asked the Rambam a question, what if someone is very old, but he also just doesn’t have a beard, it didn’t grow for him. Ah, says the Rambam, no, we don’t mean that. He says, the halacha means a young man who is very young, it doesn’t mean that someone is just a great… But what is perhaps if he is a great scholar and the community already knows him…

Laws of Shaliach Tzibbur — Young, Old, Rabbi Appoints His Student, Blind, and Pote’ach

Halacha 11 — Shaliach Tzibbur Who is Young (Beard Has Not Filled In)

Speaker 1:

Yes. If he is still very young, he is not worthy to be shaliach tzibbur in a community.

Interesting, here he is a great scholar, he is not worthy for the community? I asked the Rambam, what is the… does he mean that he is young? I asked the Rambam a question, what about one who is very old, but he just doesn’t have a beard, it didn’t grow for him. Says the Rambam, no, he doesn’t mean that. He says, you mean, the halacha means a young man who is very young, it doesn’t mean that someone is just a great… But if he is a great scholar and the community knows him, great scholar means that he is one of the great scholars, he just happens to be young. He is certainly worthy for the community. A sixteen-year-old, even if he became a great scholar, is he worthy for the community? Yes. No, think, even a very talented bachur, everyone will still say, hello, he’s a bachur, it’s not the way. Yes, okay. He’s young, he doesn’t even have a beard.

Discussion: Respect for the Community is Relative

Speaker 2:

No, but I mean respect for the community is right, it’s according to the situation. If you’re in the airport and there are ten men, respect for the community is whoever goes.

Speaker 1:

No, but they said that all these halachot are more like a permanent shaliach tzibbur. We’re not talking about the back of the airplane. In the back of the airplane one shouldn’t daven there, true. No, true, but community is only when there is more respect like that, there is more something, something gives it. Just all Purim yell to heaven.

But certainly, if he is a young man, I thought you were going to say that if he is a young man who won to be a rabbi at seven years old, then that is the respect for the community, because you must uphold his honor. If that is your community, each generation and its interpreters, they are such great scholars, they said that a great scholar should go lead.

Pores Al Shema — A Lower Threshold

Speaker 1:

Says the Rambam, David, who is still a child, still his beard has not filled in, he indeed should not be shaliach tzibbur, but he can be pores al shema (one who recites the blessings of Shema), one who is thirteen years old. Very interesting, the Rambam says that the pores al shema must be an adult, because he cannot be motzi others if he is not obligated in mitzvot, but he doesn’t have to be twenty and he doesn’t have to have a beard. Very good.

Speaker 2:

No, what does it say, he should not be shaliach tzibbur and pores al shema, is it not specifically the shaliach tzibbur?

Speaker 1:

No, it’s another thing. Pores al shema is the one who says the blessings of Kriat Shema, it’s not the same person. The blessings of Kriat Shema may be a child, and Shemoneh Esreh, the other shaliach tzibbur. No, it indeed wasn’t once the same person who says the blessings of Kriat Shema and Shemoneh Esreh, it can be two people. Just as there are people whom one only sends for Pesukei D’Zimra. And one should never send to Shacharit. It’s just… the community is not at all… No, we’re talking about respect, it’s not respect according to the important prayer. Puris leshmaya (spreads out to heaven), see that it is indeed something that one can take anyone. Yes, see that the community doesn’t mind, yes. And in the Mishnah it states “katan poris leshmaya” (a minor spreads out to heaven). The Rambam indeed says, “katan” doesn’t mean literally a minor, because he cannot be motzi the community. It means “katan she’eino yode’a lesha’er” (a minor who doesn’t know to estimate).

Practical Conduct — Bachurim as Shaliach Tzibbur

Speaker 1:

But for example, I in my shul am lenient about this, I always send bachurim. When my father is with me on Yom Tov, he wouldn’t like it, because it’s not the custom. But I think that when it’s a small beit midrash where everyone knows every bachur, the bachur is the son of my neighbor, he’s a fine bachur, it’s not something… I don’t want to say it’s not respect for the community. It’s a beit midrash of… It’s a “family shul.” It’s not a community of hundreds of people and one perhaps gives to some little bachur. But if it’s a reality that it’s a bachur from the beit midrash, one of the members of the community, one shouldn’t discriminate against bachurim.

But the real answer is perhaps something else, that the community is small, there aren’t enough people who hold by davening, and the bachurim hold by what is done. Another topic. I don’t know, no, there is a thing. I think that the matter of respect for the community is very relative. If the community has pleasure, there is one sweet little bachur who goes to the amud a lot, and the community already knows, ah, Yanky goes to the amud, one must come with a friend. When the bachur is one of the friends. But it’s not right.

Speaker 2:

A yeshiva is a good example. Isn’t it respect for the bachurim that a bachur davens in a yeshiva? On the contrary, somewhere he must learn. And even if the rosh yeshiva sits there, even if there is a minyan of adults there.

Speaker 1:

Ah, very good. A camp of bachurim. Should one say that only the maggidei shiur (lecturers) should go? Certainly one takes the bachur who can daven well. No, it’s simple. Respect for the community one speaks of a beit midrash of a city. But it’s according to the community. Respect for the community is according to the community. Certainly, it’s not a decree of Scripture. Respect for the community… As you say, it’s a small beit midrash, it can be. By us too, in a small beit midrash, bachurim went. Because there’s no one else, but even if there is.

Speaker 2:

No, there’s no one else, there are twenty people, means that every four prayers there isn’t? What, you can be stringent to say that only that one would have been needed. It must still be a revelation of the matter for example that he should daven Musaf on Yom Tov, because that is one because of respect for the beit midrash.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and then the community doesn’t want it. The community can tolerate that he should pray Mincha on Shabbos, but it cannot tolerate that he should pray Mincha on Yom Kippur. The community determines how far kavod hatzibbur (honor of the congregation) goes. If the kavod hatzibbur allows him to go, it’s good.

Halacha 11 (Continued) — The Ileg

Speaker 1:

And likewise the ileg. We spoke earlier about the different types of ilegim, now we come back again to the ilegim. What does ileg mean? No, here it’s a bit different. Here it’s not the same ileg. Earlier it means someone who is “kaved peh uchvad lashon” (heavy of mouth and heavy of tongue), he cannot bring out words. Here, such as one who cannot pronounce the letters, like someone who cannot say an alef or a hei. He says an alef instead of a hei, or vice versa, he always says an alef instead of a hei. It doesn’t make sense. Then…

You can talk until tomorrow, and we are already from the generation of ilegim. In recent generations we have become the ilegim, because we all don’t know any difference between an alef and a hei. We cannot properly pronounce certain letters.

Halacha 11 (Continued) — The Rav Appoints His Student

Speaker 1:

But there is no second one, the rav appoints one of his students to pray before him in public. What does this come in here? What does this have to do with it? He says, “Granted, one is liable, not kavod hatzibbur.” But if the Jew is the rav’s house bachur (student) or the rav’s son, the rav can give a position to one of his students. This is a new thing, it comes from the rav.

Speaker 2:

No, “to pray before him.” The rebbe stands next to the rebbe, and he is the rebbe’s agent.

Speaker 1:

But it goes further, the rebbe is like the shaliach tzibbur (prayer leader). It seems, right? “The rav appoints one of his students to pray before him.” This is a new permission, as if there is a rebbe or a rosh yeshiva, he can… The word is “before him,” because he prays with the rebbe? It means to say that he has permission. I don’t know simply clearly what this means. Not clear from where he took this halacha, but what it means. Ah, he means to say, perhaps he means this, he translates this way, Rabbi Avraham Navitch, that he learned that one must give the gadol shehatzibbur (greatest of the congregation) must be appointed, right? Seemingly the rav would always have to be the baal tefilla (prayer leader), right? Just as there were certain rebbes, yes, Spinka rebbes, I know, in the teshuva they always asked the rebbe always before praying. There were rebbes who prayed all the prayers from normal Shacharis, a whole week, a whole year. Rebbe Yishmael conducts himself this way. So this is seemingly the main law, because the shaliach tzibbur must be the gadol shehatzibbur. The Rambam says that if regarding the rav, the rav can appoint one of his students, and he doesn’t have to be the baal tefilla always. Perhaps that is the explanation.

Further, he says indeed about this, that even Rabbi Yehuda is a gadol shehatzibbur, he is nevertheless like the rav, whom they wanted to give honor. Indeed interesting.

Discussion: What is the Novelty of This Halacha?

Speaker 2:

Even if he is indeed an ileg, even if he is indeed an expert.

Speaker 1:

No, not necessarily he is an ileg, the main point is that even if he is not the gadol shehatzibbur. He says here, “provided that he is heavy of tongue or naked,” he says this. The weaker explanation. The better explanation is that… No, he says, essentially it is that all these laws that existed are not when there is a rav who appoints one of his students. This is like when the community makes a meeting whom should we take as baal tefilla, they take the other one. But the rav can appoint his students, because he is the best student, he will take him.

Speaker 2:

I would think more that not necessarily, the rebbe must pray everything himself, because he is the gadol shehatzibbur.

Speaker 1:

Could be both, could be both. Simply, a gadol shehatzibbur doesn’t mean that the rebbe, because he is the rosh yeshiva, must he also do the job of being the chazzan, I mean no. Certainly, a gadol shehatzibbur doesn’t mean because… He is already occupied, he is already the rav. But the people who are available for shaliach tzibbur we’re talking about here, yes? We call from the two benches, let’s choose from the bench a shaliach tzibbur. Listen. Could be.

Halacha 13 — A Suma (Blind Person) as Shaliach Tzibbur

Speaker 1:

Further, who else can or cannot? A suma, one who cannot see. You shouldn’t think that “Shema Yisrael” means that the individual person… No, no. What is the problem with a suma? Because he cannot read? Because he cannot see. The Gemara says, Rabbi Yehuda said that a suma cannot be pores al Shema (recite the blessings before Shema). Why? Because he doesn’t see the stars, he doesn’t see the emergence of the stars. Pores al Shema means the blessings of Yotzer. Ah, the blessing of Yotzer, “Who illuminates the earth and those who dwell upon it with mercy,” he cannot. The Rambam adds another thing. He says, “Both one who reads the Torah and one who passes before the ark,” a suma. A suma is pores al Shema and becomes a shaliach tzibbur. A suma can be a shaliach tzibbur. Reading of the Torah, repetition of the Amida he can be. He can practice. But to be a shaliach tzibbur he can, unlike Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Yehuda says he cannot. And the Gemara said that it’s not the reason because he is blind, but because others can see. Ah, his problem is that the blessing of Krias Shema, “Yotzer or uvorei choshech” (Who forms light and creates darkness), we’re talking about light, and as the Rambam said earlier, that when one wakes up light shines into the eyes and one wakes up, this is the way a person lives. The suma doesn’t have, unfortunately, the whole blessing, he doesn’t have benefit from the light, he doesn’t see it. So Rabbi Yehuda said. But the Chachamim say that yes, even a suma can have benefit from the light, he can have some feeling that there is light. Or that other people can help him and read for him.

Halacha 13 (Continued) — Poache’ach (Naked/Not Properly Dressed)

Speaker 1:

“But he reads the Megilla, but he is pores al Shema.” One who doesn’t have a garment, properly somewhat a pachi’ach, as it says in the Mishna, he doesn’t have a garment that doesn’t cover his shoulder, he doesn’t go properly dressed, he can be pores al Shema. As we saw earlier, a pores al Shema is much easier, even a child can, even a bachur, one who doesn’t go so properly dressed. But a shaliach tzibbur can only pray atuf (wrapped), he must be completely dressed, wrapped with a tallis, with an upper garment. Here we see that the shaliach tzibbur must go with a… This is the source seemingly, we conduct ourselves at least by certain prayers that the shaliach tzibbur wears a tallis. What does a tallis have to do with a shaliach tzibbur? This is kavod hatzibbur, that he goes with a tallis, he is wrapped, he is completely dressed.

Slobodka Custom — Distinction Between Long and Short Coat

Speaker 1:

Even if the concern of shoulder regarding the Megilla is perhaps, today one doesn’t always wear it, but it’s the idea, he goes more dressed, more dressed than necessary. In the Slobodka yeshiva the custom is, by the Lithuanians, yes, by us it’s usual that at Mincha the shaliach tzibbur doesn’t go with a tallis, but by the Lithuanians one goes every time, at Shacharis, Mincha, Maariv, always he prays with a tallis. And in Slobodka the custom was, that no, but they hold the custom, that is, one who wears a long coat doesn’t need to wear a tallis at Mincha. If the shaliach tzibbur has only a short coat, then he needs a pachi’ach, he needs to cover himself with a piece of Megilla.

Ah, it’s very nice that pachi’ach is a solution, all sorts of people come into the beis medrash, one shouldn’t have to check if his garments are this, one has for everyone a tallis, one gives them a covering, this is the concept. So there they make a distinction how long the coat is, this is the idea.

—

Speaker 1:

So, we have finished the fifth chapter.